Ben Shapiro is number one

[brenthutch 388]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/2024/01/31/ben-shapiro-song-tom-macdonald/
 

Who knew Ben Shapiro could rap?

[oldwomanc6 38]

I enjoyed it immensely. 

[winsor 187]

On 2/2/2024 at 9:38 AM, brenthutch said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/2024/01/31/ben-shapiro-song-tom-macdonald/
 

Who knew Ben Shapiro could rap?

Don't get all the ink and piercings, on Tom MacDonald, but it's an amusing application of Ben Shapiro's rapid fire delivery.

Since Woke is a disease of denial, the message is lost on those who don't get it in the first place and is recognized as a goof by those who get it 

[wmw999 2,146]

58 minutes ago, winsor said:

Since Woke is a disease of denial

I reject your assertion. Woke is a recognition of equal validity for others to have their own points of view. It's not that I think they're all right (they're not), it's just that I'm not the sole arbiter. Being culturally or militarily dominant does not, in fact, mean one's right about everything

Wendy P.

[winsor 187]

Straw man.

The key elements characterizing Woke are bullshit by every measurable parameter.  Using redefinition to support assertions is a hallmark of false claims.

Presumption of what constitutes 'good' vs. 'bad' is a faulty basis for one's argument.

[tkhayes 140]

49 minutes ago, winsor said:

Straw man.

The key elements characterizing Woke are bullshit by every measurable parameter.  Using redefinition to support assertions is a hallmark of false claims.

Presumption of what constitutes 'good' vs. 'bad' is a faulty basis for one's argument.

reminder that woke is only defined by whatever person at the time of whatever discussion and actually has no definitive meaning despite your best efforts.

another made-up bullshit way of dividing the country with 'us versus them' mentality encompassing anything that you might disagree with

knock off the horseshit.  Even Ron Desantis' lawyers in court could not define 'woke' while they get sued over claiming they fired someone for being 'woke'

BTW The State Attorney is winning that particular 'woke' case.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/what-does-woke-mean-gov-desantis-officials-answer-during-andrew-warren-trial

yet another conspiracy theory to hate on things that you know nothing about.

[billvon 2,426]

1 hour ago, tkhayes said:

reminder that woke is only defined by whatever person at the time of whatever discussion and actually has no definitive meaning despite your best efforts.

Woke has a real definition that Winsor is unaware of.  His definition of it, like that of most conservatives, is "equality that I dislike."

If you ask a conservative for a hard definition of 'woke' prepare for some fireworks.  As a good example, an author wrote a book called "Stolen Youth" about how wokeness was destroying America's children.  She spends a whole chapter defining "woke."  During an interview an interviewer asked her a simple question: "Would you mind defining woke?"

Author: "So  . . . I mean . . . woke is . . .sort of . . .  the idea that . . .uh . . .I . . .this is going to be one of those moments that goes viral . . .I mean, woke is something that is very hard to define, I spent an entire chapter defining it . . . it is sort of the understanding that we need to retotal . . totally reimagine and rean . .  re . . . reduce society in order to create hierarchies of oppression . . . um . . . sorry . . .it's hard to explain in a 15 second soundbite."  (She had been going on for 45 seconds at that point.)

Another interviewer leapt in to her rescue - but was just as bad.  "“It’s one of those things that, everybody is weighing in … against wokeness. We do some of it on this show as well. It’s definitely something you know what it is when you see it."

So the best she could do was "the understanding that we need to reimagine and reduce society in order to create hierarchies of oppression."  Which, amusingly, sounds like a liberal sociologist going on about the evils of capitalism or something.

Now keep in mind this is an author who just wrote a BOOK on "woke" - and was on a tour specifically intended to publicize that book.  And even she couldn't define it beyond that stammering word salad.  And most conservatives have even less of an idea of what it is, as Winsor's ever-changing definitions demonstrate.

It is, however, a very useful dog whistle for conservatives.  They can use to mean anything that conservatives hate and can't really say out loud.  For example, if you say "I hate black mermaids" you sound sorta racist and bigoted.  If you say "Trans people should be banned from public places!" you sound like a homophobe.  But if you say "Disney is WOKE!" not only are you saying all that, you have deniability.  "I'm not racist, I just hate WOKE."

[gowlerk 1,923]

Woke is like obscenity. I can’t define it but I know it when I see it.

Edited February 4 by gowlerk

[jakee 1,257]

5 hours ago, winsor said:

Straw man.

The key elements characterizing Woke are bullshit by every measurable parameter.  Using redefinition to support assertions is a hallmark of false claims.

Cool. Since we know you never acknowledge what wokeness actually is and simply redefine it to fit your arguments, then we all know you're just spouting non-stop bullshit.

[winsor 187]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Woke is like obscenity. I can’t define it but I know it when I see it.

Wikipedia gets into it in excruciating detail.

The part I find offensive is the 'good racism' that underlies its origins, the culture of victimization, the identity politics and the denial of any perspective that is not in conformity with its belief system.

I'm sure there are good qualities that I missed.

[brenthutch 388]

Woke:

“wokeness" include a rejection of American exceptionalism; a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy; that people of color suffer from systemic and institutional racism; that white Americans experience white privilege; that African Americans deserve reparations for slavery and post-enslavement discrimination; that disparities among racial groups, for instance in certain professions or industries, are automatic evidence of discrimination; that U.S. law enforcement agencies are designed to discriminate against people of color and so should be defunded, disbanded, or heavily reformed; that women suffer from systemic sexism; that individuals should be able to identify with any gender or none; that U.S. capitalism is deeply flawed”

 

[gowlerk 1,923]

4 minutes ago, winsor said:

Wikipedia gets into it in excruciating detail.

The part I find offensive is the 'good racism' that underlies its origins, the culture of victimization, the identity politics and the denial of any perspective that is not in conformity with its belief system.

I'm sure there are good qualities that I missed.

That is because you are laser focused on your anger over the feeling that someone may get something you don’t feel they necessarily deserve. And are completely unwilling to acknowledge the advantages you have and did nothing to deserve. It is an egregious form of entitlement.

[jakee 1,257]

15 minutes ago, winsor said:

The part I find offensive is the 'good racism' that underlies its origins, the culture of victimization, the identity politics and the denial of any perspective that is not in conformity with its belief system.

Well that's clear, detailed and unambiguous. Oh wait no - I mean the other thing.

But I do find it extremely ironic that you complain about victimisation when it really does appear that your whole racist crusade stems from the fact that you once lost a job interview to a black guy, assumed it must have been affirmative action (because he couldn't possibly just have been better than you) and have been fuming about it ever since.

Edited February 4 by jakee

[jakee 1,257]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy; 

Err, so you mean you?

Quote

“wokeness" include a rejection of American exceptionalism; a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy; that people of color suffer from systemic and institutional racism; that white Americans experience white privilege; that African Americans deserve reparations for slavery and post-enslavement discrimination; that disparities among racial groups, for instance in certain professions or industries, are automatic evidence of discrimination; that U.S. law enforcement agencies are designed to discriminate against people of color and so should be defunded, disbanded, or heavily reformed; that women suffer from systemic sexism; that individuals should be able to identify with any gender or none; that U.S. capitalism is deeply flawed”

I mean, a whole bunch of those things are literally true. Not necessarily even that they are tenets of wokeism, but that they describe reality as it is.

I'd be interested to know which other ones you agree with, along with the one I already pointed out.

Edited February 4 by jakee

[billvon 2,426]

17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Woke:

“wokeness" include a rejection of American exceptionalism

Nope.  Wokeness is being alert to injustice in society.  America is exceptional not because we didn't have injustice in our society (we did) but because we consistently work to reduce injustice in our society.  At least most Americans do.  And the reason they work to reduce injustice is because they are woke to that injustice.

Martin Luther King was woke to injustice - so much so that an anti-woke nut killed him.  Abraham Lincoln was woke to injustice, and was willing to take the country to war against itself to correct it.  Harvey Milk was woke to injustice, and again was killed for his efforts.  Pretty sure all of them considered America to be pretty exceptional.

Quote

a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy

Nope. Wokeness is being alert to injustice in society. That injustice has included, at times, prohibiting black people and women from voting, which makes it less of a democracy.  But like I said above - the woke have been fixing that for the past 160 years.

Quote

that people of color suffer from systemic and institutional racism

Congratulations!  You got one right!  Black people HAVE suffered from systemic racism (which is basically the same as institutional racism.)  This is seen today in the rejection of resumes and school applications from candidates with "black names" and/or pictures of them showing their race.  But - again see above - we are getting better.

Quote

that white Americans experience white privilege

Wow you got TWO right!  Yes, far more white people experience privilege than black people.  Congratulations for being woke!

Quote

 that African Americans deserve reparations for slavery

Nope. Wokeness is being alert to injustice in society.  A few people think that means we should give money to black people to "fix" former injustices.  They are vastly in the minority.

Quote

post-enslavement discrimination

Exactly.  Banning black children from white schools is a good example there, and was a former example of injustice in society.  The people who fought to end that were woke.

Quote

that U.S. law enforcement agencies are designed to discriminate against people of color and so should be defunded, disbanded, or heavily reformed

Nope. Wokeness is being alert to injustice in society.  There certainly been cases of police targeting black people.  But fortunately, the cops who do that are, more and more often, going to jail, and the incidence of that is going down.  The prosecutors who prosecute bad cops are a great example of woke.

Quote

that individuals should be able to identify with any gender or none

Nope. Wokeness is being alert to injustice in society.  What you call someone is a different topic.  If you start to discriminate against trans people, THEN being woke comes into play.

Quote

that U.S. capitalism is deeply flawed

Of course it is.  But that's not being woke; that's simple common sense.  Capitalism is certainly the most flawed economic system out there - with the exception of every other system that's been tried.

Thank you, though, for giving a somewhat more coherent word salad than the anti-woke author did above.  However, all the salad in the world won't redefine the word for you.  Words mean things.

 

[winsor 187]

39 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

That is because you are laser focused on your anger over the feeling that someone may get something you don’t feel they necessarily deserve. And are completely unwilling to acknowledge the advantages you have and did nothing to deserve. It is an egregious form of entitlement.

Fascinating that you have drawn these conclusions.

Everything you think you know is wrong.

[gowlerk 1,923]

8 minutes ago, winsor said:

Fascinating that you have drawn these conclusions.

Everything you think you know is wrong.

Yes I know. You have a black friend and a gay one as well.

[jakee 1,257]

13 minutes ago, winsor said:

Everything you think you know is wrong.

Now apply that to this "The part I find offensive is the 'good racism' that underlies its origins, the culture of victimization, the identity politics and the denial of any perspective that is not in conformity with its belief system" and you might start to get somewhere.

[brenthutch 388]

27 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes I know. You have a black friend and a gay one as well.

And you don’t?

[winsor 187]

46 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes I know. You have a black friend and a gay one as well.

I identity as a lesbian of color.

[JoeWeber 2,324]

44 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes I know. You have a black friend and a gay one as well.

You're simply being trite. I am not in full agreement with Winsor, probably owing more to my life experience than any definition of right or wrong or good or bad or up and down. But then I consider definitions to be changeable and, I suppose, fungible. I think Winsor would not agree with that position.

[brenthutch 388]

Wokism is a mind virus infecting the brains of largely white social justice warriors who run around desperately searching for “isims” where very few exist.  This imbalance between their demand for “isims” and the actual reality causes them to label everyone with whom they disagree, a bigot. This  gives them a sense of moral superiority and a little shot of dopamine. It is this dopamine feedback loop that reinforces this malady much like a opioid addiction. Apparently the only cure is a red pill which is in desperately short supply.

[jakee 1,257]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

This  gives them a sense of moral superiority and a little shot of dopamine.

And this is absolutely not what you're doing at all. No, the superiority you're attempting to display here is simply the moral superiority you really do have! It's a completely and totally different thing.

23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

This imbalance between their demand for “isims” and the actual reality causes them to label everyone with whom they disagree, a bigot. 

It's interesting that you claim this while refusing to say how many of the 'woke' beliefs you provided above you believe do reflect reality - since we all know that you do in fact absolutely agree with some them, eg the statement on democracy.

[billvon 2,426]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Wokism is a mind virus infecting the brains of largely white social justice warriors who run around desperately searching for “isims” where very few exist.

Sorry to hear of your infection. Since from your previous posts we know you are woke - I guess it's a burden you will just have to live with.

[gowlerk 1,923]

15 minutes ago, billvon said:

Sorry to hear of your infection. Since from your previous posts we know you are woke - I guess it's a burden you will just have to live with.

Is there such an affliction as “trollism”?