AFF student got sick after first jump

[leap_0f_faith 0]

I traveled all the way from my country (Bangladesh) to Thailand to do the AFF course and if possible get my A license. I'm paying ~2500$ for aff and made an advanced payment of nearly a thousand dollars. My instructor, Graeme Black, is an awesome and very cool guy. He talked to me and motivated me in such a way, I felt very little fear while going for the first tandem. I first felt the fear when I sat on the door of the plane for the jump, but that was OK too. The freefall was also OK I guess, but the parachute opened, the huge jerk made me so scared! And my tandem instructor (Slava,he was also pretty cool) then talked to me and said something like let's have fun and made huge spins all the way coming down. I could not take that as I am very prone to motion-sickness(has serious problems with the theme-park rides like roller coasters - immediately triggers my chronic migraine headache pain). So the same thing happened here too - when I got down I puked a lot, my serious migrane headache was back, I felt so nauseous that I could not stand up and I had to lie down in the dz for around 2 hours.

Seeing my reaction to the jump, naturally Graeme got very worried and he suggested me to consult a doctor before I jump again and also insisted that I take another tandem before continuing to my AFF. He also tried to talk me out of this idea of skydiving(obviously for my safety) and told me to accept the fact that this sport is not for everyone.

I borrowed a hell lot of money for this, took 2 weeks of vacation against the will of my boss for this and now I'm stuck in this embarrassing and sad situation. I'm also feeling so down and sad, because I want to do this. Do you have any suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance.

[rnicks 0]

He's right in that skydiving is not for everybody. Based on just what you said though, it's too hard to tell. I also threw up after my tandem and was sick the entire day. (I too am prone to motion sickness.) Didn't stop me for signing up for AFF, and now I have over 1000 jumps. It's different when you are the one flying the canopy. I still struggle with the plane ride up on bumpy days though, so be prepared for that never to go away. Good luck with your decision and possible training.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

It seems like a fair number of tandem students get motion sick. It seems like it's a lot less common when you're flying your own canopy. I think it's a similar difference to driving a car versus being a passenger.

Talk to your instructor prior to the next one and see if you can fly the canopy this time. Also ask them not to make any such extreme maneuvers. If you end up sick after two or three solo canopy flights, then you might want to start considering your options, but one tandem flight doesn't give you enough information.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[pchapman 261]

The problem was all the spins "all the way coming down".

If you tell a tandem instructor that doesn't make you feel good, they shouldn't be doing it. It's about your fun, not his.

And there is almost no need ever for any skydiver to continuously spiral. So not being able to spiral a lot shouldn't be a problem.

Since you are particularly prone to motion sickness, it might be a problem for you in skydiving, but it might not. If the airplane is rocking around a lot on a hot, bumpy summer day, maybe that won't be good for you. People do acclimatize to new types of motions, although that can take time.

So it is all hard to tell. I can understand an instructor wanting to play it safe. On the other hand, it is possible that you'll have no serious problems when learning to skydive.

(Just like someone learning to fly might throw up if taken up for aerobatics, but do fine during regurlar flying. And if regular flying also makes them queasy, which can happen, then they just can't go flying as many times a day or for as long. With skydiving one isn't up there that long, so you're only committed for 5 minutes at a time, at the most, once out the door. Before that point, one can choose to ride back down with the plane, although that may cost something.)

[wasatchrider 0]

leap_0f_faith

I traveled all the way from my country (Bangladesh) to Thailand to do the AFF course and if possible get my A license. I'm paying ~2500$ for aff and made an advanced payment of nearly a thousand dollars. My instructor, Graeme Black, is an awesome and very cool guy. He talked to me and motivated me in such a way, I felt very little fear while going for the first tandem. I first felt the fear when I sat on the door of the plane for the jump, but that was OK too. The freefall was also OK I guess, but the parachute opened, the huge jerk made me so scared! And my tandem instructor (Slava,he was also pretty cool) then talked to me and said something like let's have fun and made huge spins all the way coming down. I could not take that as I am very prone to motion-sickness(has serious problems with the theme-park rides like roller coasters - immediately triggers my chronic migraine headache pain). So the same thing happened here too - when I got down I puked a lot, my serious migrane headache was back, I felt so nauseous that I could not stand up and I had to lie down in the dz for around 2 hours.

Seeing my reaction to the jump, naturally Graeme got very worried and he suggested me to consult a doctor before I jump again and also insisted that I take another tandem before continuing to my AFF. He also tried to talk me out of this idea of skydiving(obviously for my safety) and told me to accept the fact that this sport is not for everyone.

I borrowed a hell lot of money for this, took 2 weeks of vacation against the will of my boss for this and now I'm stuck in this embarrassing and sad situation. I'm also feeling so down and sad, because I want to do this. Do you have any suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance.

so you took vacation borrowed money for something you did not even know if you would like... sounds like you to a leap of faith

BASE 1519

[fastphil 0]

I can get motion sickness when I don't have control of the motion. I'm a "manifest my own destiny" kind of guy.

[Arvoitus 1]

You'll probably be fine. Being a passenger on a tandem makes it much easier to get motion sickness and get nauseous. I've never felt any nauseousness on any solo jumps nor tandems where I'm on the TI side. However when I was a passenger for another TI, I started to feel nauseous after just one revolution after he started spinning the canopy and it took a long while after landing for the feeling to go away.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[riggerrob 558]

fastphil

I can get motion sickness when I don't have control of the motion. ...

.........................................................................

Key point.

If you have your hands on the controls and can anticipate turns, they are not a surprise. Ergo, you will experience half as much fear and half as much nausea.
Also, having your hands on the controls will help you to learn how to steer and land a parachute.
If the TI refuses to allow you to touch the controls, take your money to another school.
Clearly your first TI did not care whether you returned. Refuse to jump with him again.

[leap_0f_faith 0]

Thanks everyone. Your answers were very helpful and also inspiring.

So, now I'm on the way to the DZ and will tell my instructor that I want to take another tandem. He is supposed to teach me canopy control either way for my aff. So i will request him to teach me before the tandem and will request my tandem instructor to let me control the canopy.

I was not so scared the first time, but now I'm very scared. Scared of everything.

Thanks everyone.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Oh that's good. It's normal to be scared. If you're not scared, there's probably something wrong with you!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[PeteW 0]

I almost barfed on my tandem. It was actually on jump 16 or 17. It was during opening. Never had the problem again.

[leap_0f_faith 0]

I'm at the DZ and my instructor is not willing to take the risk. He suggested me to get into some other extreme sports like scuba or paragliding first and told me to come back next year.

I'm soo sad but I also understand what he's saying. Now looking for a place to learn paragliding in Thailand.

[Krip 2]

leap_0f_faith

I'm at the DZ and my instructor is not willing to take the risk. He suggested me to get into some other extreme sports like scuba or paragliding first and told me to come back next year.

I'm soo sad but I also understand what he's saying. Now looking for a place to learn paragliding in Thailand.

Hi LOF

Is the dz going to return the balance of the $1,000 that's left over after deducting the cost of your tandem.?

One Jump Wonder

[DrDom 0]

Krip

***I'm at the DZ and my instructor is not willing to take the risk. He suggested me to get into some other extreme sports like scuba or paragliding first and told me to come back next year.

I'm soo sad but I also understand what he's saying. Now looking for a place to learn paragliding in Thailand.

Hi LOF

Is the dz going to return the balance of the $1,000 that's left over after deducting the cost of your tandem.?

Thats what I'm wondering.

OK, so he wants you to take up paragliding instead since you'll be nauseated under canopy for longer? I don't quite understand that logic. Motion sickness under SCUBA is one of the most dangerous and disorienting things imaginable.

If it were me, and its not... so take with a grain of salt... go do another tandem but ask if it can be a teaching tandem where you control the toggles. My tandem (which was actually before I decided I wanted to do AFF) I was immediately handed the toggles and he held the lines and talked me through turns all the way ultil we were in pattern. We did ONE spiral, the rest of the time it was just "lets make a slow 180 left" "lets practice a gentle flare" "lets fly brakes a few" "now lets go 90 right". I asked why he did that and he said that it saved him a lot of vomit cleanup to put people in control and direct them unless they either wanted "a wild ride" or were not able to control (nerves, confusion, etc).

I can easily get motion sick in a car when my wife drives (its her, not me), but I do OK under canopy. I paraglide and paramotor as well and can say that I would probably rather be motion sick under a parachute than a paraglider only because your descent rate is so low and if you are up thermalling you could hit a few thousand feet before you're able to descend. Maybe not ridge flying, but then you just have to make it to an LZ and its a lot longer.

Otherwise, I agree you should get your cash back for the unused time if they are unable to accomodate you.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

leap_0f_faith

I'm at the DZ and my instructor is not willing to take the risk. He suggested me to get into some other extreme sports like scuba or paragliding first and told me to come back next year.

I'm soo sad but I also understand what he's saying. Now looking for a place to learn paragliding in Thailand.

Having not seen your reaction to your last tandem jump, I'm not going to second-guess your instructor. They are at least going to refund the remainder of your money?

All the gliding sports require a more strategic approach to flying. You're always looking for the next thermal as well as constantly evaluating potential landing areas within your range in case you can't find any more thermals. It's not bad, just somewhat different than skydiving. From watching the videos, it does seem more relaxed than skydiving, though I doubt you'll ever get that massive adrenaline rush we get at the door.

If you decide you like it, it might be easier to launch a paraglider than do a skydive, if Bangladesh doesn't have many dropzones. You'd want to check your country's regulations on operating that type of aircraft prior to buying gear.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[leap_0f_faith 0]

I requested them for a tandem where I can control the canopy but my instructor told me to take a break and get back with some experience in in some other extreme sports. Then on my way back, I met another quite experience skydiver(getting his D license) and suggested me that I go for my aff because it is pretty common when you are under another person's spiral. So I called my instructor and insisted this again. I said I'll take a Dramamine before the jump to avoid the nausea and will control the canopy in the next tandem.

Now, he wants me to consult an aviation medicine specialist doctor and take a written explanation of what happened and take his written paperwork giving me green signal towards continuing to skydiving. So now I'm heading to Bangkok Hospital.

And no, he is not going to refund any of that 800$.

[Hellis 0]

leap_0f_faith

And no, he is not willing to refund any of that 800$.

I don't think scuba diving or paragliding will prepare you for a jump.
But beeing able to control the tandem and/or not spiraling will help much more.
Did you tell him about you motion sickness before the jump?

And about not refunding, that is really shitty!
I understand that you don't refund students normally when they quit because they got scared, but in this case it's the instructor that got scared.
In m opinion, the one that breaks the agreedment should 'pay'.
If a student quits, then it's his own fault.
But in this case the instructor breaks the 'agreedment' and should refund the money.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

leap_0f_faith

I requested them for a tandem where I can control the canopy but my instructor told me to take a break and get back with some experience in in some other extreme sports. Then on my way back, I met another quite experience skydiver(getting his D license) and suggested me that I go for my aff because it is pretty common when you are under another person's spiral. So I called my instructor and insisted this again.

Now, he wants me to consult an aviation medicine specialist doctor and take his written paperwork giving me green signal towards continuing to skydiving. Sonow I'm heading to Bangkok Hospital.

And no, he is not willing to refund any of that 800$.

Oh, well in that case, I think it's probably a scam to charge you $1000 for a tandem ride. I don't think it's particularly difficult for a tandem instructor to make a student motion sick. The hospital thing is just a run-around. Instead of going to the hospital, you should go down to the nearest police station, explain your situation to them, and ask them to prosecute the company's owners for fraud. You're a tourist, you're an easy target.

If you decide to try skydiving again, I'd suggest perhaps a reputable company in Australia, maybe near one of the indoor skydiving facilities in the country. Or come to the USA in the winter (November-February) and do it at Eloy in Arizona. Sure it's probably two days travel to get here, but it doesn't sound significantly more expensive than Thailand, and way less sketchy.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[craddock 0]

You definitely should get your money back if they are the ones shutting you down.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[yoink 321]

pchapman

And there is almost no need ever for any skydiver to continuously spiral. So not being able to spiral a lot shouldn't be a problem.

I dunno. I'd have lots of concerns as an instructor...If someone becomes incapacitated easily from spins, I'd worry about how they'd perform in a spinning mal situation.

What happens if they burble an exit? Does unstable freefall incapacitate them as well?

I agree a teaching tandem would be a good next step, but the reality is that there are situations that are out of our control as skydivers which might result in violent spins....


That said, if the student decides not to continue, the DZ has to refund the unspent money. Keeping it is unacceptable.

[DougH 270]

Sounds like a shady fucking operation. We do a tandem progression, some students get motion sick on tandems. I don't send them to an aviation doctor. I better tailor the canopy ride, try to getting them sitting more comfortable in the harness, and offer encouragement that it normally doesn't carry on to solo jumps.

Why the hell is an instructor on a tandem with a aff student spiraling anyway? Stop fucking around like a jackass and teach the student some canopy flight!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Krip 2]

yoink

***
And there is almost no need ever for any skydiver to continuously spiral. So not being able to spiral a lot shouldn't be a problem.

I dunno. I'd have lots of concerns as an instructor...If someone becomes incapacitated easily from spins, I'd worry about how they'd perform in a spinning mal situation.

What happens if they burble an exit? Does unstable freefall incapacitate them as well?

I agree a teaching tandem would be a good next step, but the reality is that there are situations that are out of our control as skydivers which might result in violent spins....


That said, if the student decides not to continue, the DZ has to refund the unspent money. Keeping it is unacceptable.

Hi LOF

Full disclosure. I'm not tandem person or a instructor.

How long did you have to wait in line to make your tandem?

What time of day did you make the tandem?

How many tandems were waiting in line after you made your tandem?

How many tandem instructors did you see on the dz?

Did you sign a contract that said no refunds?

IMO $800 is a lot of money, and worth the effort to address your concerns to the right person.

Find out who the owner of the dz operation is and start documenting your concerns to the owner via email to start a paper trail.

Good luck.

One Jump Wonder

[leap_0f_faith 0]

The doctor also said it's very common to have this sort of problem when spinning so much in the air.

Skydiving itself is very scary for beginners i guess and all these hassle is just making it soo much more scary. All alone in a foreign shady country with no mental support from my instructor - it's getting really hard for me. I am soo much more scared right now. Thank you all for your support.

[dthames 0]

Very few times in skydiving will anyone hear me say, "Listen to me I know what I am talking about". This is one exception. Listen to me!!!!!

I have a history of motion sickness that dates back as long as I can remember, including being sick on rides at the fair when I was a kid. I started jumping 3 years ago at age 54, so I know "me" pretty well.

My first canopy control check on my first skydive (AFF) and I thought, "This is making me sick". I didn't have the chance to jump again that day, but I did the next day and it was worse. I got the same talk as you did and was even dismissed from that DZ because there was something wrong with me.

Motion sickness turned off any interest of jumping. But it came back and I got determined. I think there are very few people that are willing to be sick just to jump, so those of us that do get sick just walk away and do something else. But some stick it out.

I went to the doctor and got a prescription patch that I wear behind my ear. I was told to not jump with it until I had tested it and was comfortable with it's side affects and if that would cause a problem in skydiving. The DZ that was willing to train me knew I was taking medication and worked with me. Soon I was using half of the patch and the side effects were much less. Today I only wear it if I think I will be doing some acrobatic type stuff or if I expect a rough plane ride. Some jumps still make me feel a bit bad but overall I have whipped it.

Feel free to send me a personal message anytime you need some encouragement.

Dan

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Krip 2]

DougH

Sounds like a shady fucking operation. We do a tandem progression, some students get motion sick on tandems. I don't send them to an aviation doctor. I better tailor the canopy ride, try to getting them sitting more comfortable in the harness, and offer encouragement that it normally doesn't carry on to solo jumps.

Why the hell is an instructor on a tandem with a aff student spiraling anyway? Stop fucking around like a jackass and teach the student some canopy flight!

WAG a tourist trap set up by some expats. Why mess around with some dude, when there are some nice tourist babe's waiting in line.

Give the dude a ride he won't forget And move on to a sweet young thing from the continent.

I've pondered what I would do, then remembered how the the people got their money back from a sly ride operator here in the USA. They called the local cops from the dz and got their money back before they left.

From my personnel experience in Thailand. The local authorities and the Thai's are honorable people and try and run a clean ship. To many complaints from disgruntled tourist's the dz may lose their business license.

One Jump Wonder