Will the tunnel help or hurt?

[wildernessmedic 0]

I'm a new skydiver. Just got signed off AFF and did 1 solo jump. (11 total jumps, didn't complete AFF a few years ago)


Before my final AFF jump I went and did some tunnel time. My final jump was by far my worst arch. Stiff as a board, wobbly...

It looked like I picked up some bad habit from the tunnel, like trying to grab the air to stay up. 1st solo felt way better, but still not good.

I have 15 minutes of tunnel time to use. Should I use it and just keep in mind to watch out for bad habits like that, or wait until...?

Is the key just to jump more until the arch is natural, or practice more on ground? When I practice on the ground I noticed my legs are getting asymmetrical a lot and have trouble correcting them.

Advice? Jump more, use that tunnel time, practice on the ground more, or all of the above? I don't want to be stuck on a sloppy arch, i'd like to move on to more fun stuff.

[randyb 0]

I found the tunnel to help a lot during my A license training. Make sure you have a coach in there that knows your objectives and can help correct body position issues on the spot.

[sammielu 3]

You can not practice your arch enough, and definitely not too much. Practice until your arch is solid and symmetrical immediately, no matter what your starting position is. Get coaching on the ground, think about which muscles engage when you arch (hips press forward, buns clenched, thigh muscled taught).
That input can transition to the tunnel, but make sure you tell the tunnel coaches what you are looking to get out of your tunnel time: solid, stable, symmetrical arch.

[jlmiracle 7]

What tunnel did you go to? Tunnel should help and not hinder. I've seen many students "fixed" by going to a tunnel.

Sounds like the tunnel is holding back power or lacks power to keep you up in a good arch.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Ahh well... I had several people suggest that I get to the tunnel during AFF and my instructors did see a noticeable improvement in my flying thereafter. I did six minutes in the tunnel between AFF 3 and 4 and another 6 minutes before moving on to coaching. I had an exact timeline at one point.

The one thing that will make the biggest difference in your flying is relaxing, and I did not put enough tunnel time in to get to that point during AFF. In fact, it was a bit over a year later that I went to the tunnel and really relaxed for the first time. I just told my instructor I was there to have fun today and had no objectives. The second I hit the air I felt all the tension go out of my body and flew like I'd never flown before. And I thought to myself "Oh! This is what they meant!"

Do you remember learning to drive? I do, even though it was three decades ago. I was all stiff, afraid to make the smallest move because I didn't know how the car would respond. Now, I get behind the wheel and I can carry on a conversation while driving because I can just relax and let my body do most of the work. You'll get to that point with your flying, where you don't have to think about how to do something, you just think about what you want to do and your body can make it happen.

Anywhoo, I'd say yeah, do your tunnel time. Tell your instructor you're working toward your skydiving license. The important skills are being stable, holding a heading and being able to pull. You can't actually pull in a tunnel, of course, but you CAN do practice pulls where you make the motion. If you're a bit bored with all that, you can always put one or both hands on your helmet or behind your back and try flying and steering like that.

They usually push you very quickly into freeflying in the wind tunnel, and I'm not sure I approve of that. In fact, I disapprove! Here is my disapproving face! Heh heh. Stay on your belly for an hour or two! There's a lot more to learn there than you think!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[hillson 0]

Get a tunnel coach that is also an AFFI. Ask around the DZ and someone will point you in the right direction. Or post which tunnel and I'm sure you'd get recommendations.

[Skydivesg 6]

wildernessmedic

I'm a new skydiver. Just got signed off AFF and did 1 solo jump. (11 total jumps, didn't complete AFF a few years ago)


Before my final AFF jump I went and did some tunnel time. My final jump was by far my worst arch. Stiff as a board, wobbly...

It looked like I picked up some bad habit from the tunnel, like trying to grab the air to stay up. 1st solo felt way better, but still not good.

I have 15 minutes of tunnel time to use. Should I use it and just keep in mind to watch out for bad habits like that, or wait until...?

Is the key just to jump more until the arch is natural, or practice more on ground? When I practice on the ground I noticed my legs are getting asymmetrical a lot and have trouble correcting them.

Advice? Jump more, use that tunnel time, practice on the ground more, or all of the above? I don't want to be stuck on a sloppy arch, i'd like to move on to more fun stuff.

I've had AFF people and people just off AFF in my tunnel camps. I don't teach the wide outrigger type skydiving like many others. I teach you to fly with your legs and hips.

I also teach them to fly with the back of one hand, then the other, then both on the small of their back for 10-15 seconds (each way) holding a heading, stability, and level fall rate. This shows them they can fly this way while pulling - be it their main or their reserve.

Not all tunnel instructors/coaches know how to teach decent belly skills. I know several instructors who don't have more than a dozen jumps themselves and because they don't fly on their bellies in the tunnel, they teach old school body position.

Tunnel flight is the best training aid we have, but it still comes down to the guy who is teaching or coaching you.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[wildernessmedic 0]

Thanks guys. Guess I'll go practice.

The tunnel I went to was ifly SF. Really wasn't happy with it. (2nd visit I left unhappy). Wrote a yelp about it and the guy called me and offered 15 free minutes with him coaching.

While there I started gabbing the air like I was trying to go up because in my arch I was on the ground. He didn't turn it up so... Yeah. This time I'll sit there until he does I guess.

I told him where I was in jumping and what my goals were. Seemed more focused on tunnel things like me learning to strafe rather than working on my AFF stuff.

Here's part of it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=onfrt9kjHtw

[wildernessmedic 0]

I'm confused, relax how? I see things like that other posts saying clench and tighten hips and thighs to hold he arch. Let everything loose, or keep some things tight and relax in a more psychological aspect?

[faulknerwn 37]

I'd say make sure they know you are a student skydiver. Many of the tunnels teach a very odd body position for actual skydiving, and I know the few times I have been to the tunnel I have had to struggle to float and fly big until I could get them to turn the wind up.

But generally if they know you are a student skydiver, they will teach you to fly like a skydiver not a tunnel guy...

[riggerrob 561]

.... Seemed more focused on tunnel things like me learning to strafe rather than working on my AFF stuff. ...

.....................................................................................

"Strafe?"
What is "strafe?"

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

wildernessmedic

I'm confused, relax how? I see things like that other posts saying clench and tighten hips and thighs to hold he arch. Let everything loose, or keep some things tight and relax in a more psychological aspect?

Take a deep breath, hold it for a moment and then let it out. Your body will automatically relax as you exhale. Or try getting behind the wheel of a car and without turning it on, try tensing up as much as you can. Make your arms all stiff like you might have been when you were learning how to drive. Not going to have very good control over the car like that, are you? It'll be all jerky. Now relax to your normal posture and feel the difference.

Much the same things are going on, too. Your eyes are learning where to look and how to deal with the information they're being presented, and you're learning a whole new set of skills.

All right look... first tunnel session. Sorry for the cheesy music, that was before I started clipping the audio out. It's handy to have video evidence. So there I'm all tense and stiff. Like a bread stick, trying to fly.

One from this year. I'm totally relaxed and I'm not having to really think about what I'm doing. I'm not particularly interested in freeflying, I just have a tunnel rat friend and can't resist going down there if she wants to.

I'm still very much learning in there, by the way, even though I've mostly just been on my belly. You might be able to tell from the second video that I really just want to go tracking off, though. I need a football-stadium-sized wind tunnel I can go swooping around! (Or, you know, just the sky...)

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Trafficdiver 8]

wildernessmedic

While there I started gabbing the air like I was trying to go up because in my arch I was on the ground. He didn't turn it up so... Yeah. This time I'll sit there until he does I guess.

That's what I do. I'll lay there and stare at the driver. They want to make sure you're stable before they give you more power, and being stable on the net is a good way to show them you're cool.

Keep in mind everyone still sucks at jump 11. You will get better and the tunnel will help...eventually.

[wildernessmedic 0]

See the huge improvement between them. Also noticed somewhat early on in the first he looked like he tried to bring your arms in to not sink intoa the net.

Ok, so truly relax. Had trouble understanding because on the ground practicing obviously you can't relax of you'd just be laying on the ground. I've been trying to stiff arm and leg it like I was holding a practice arch on the ground.

I made sure they knew I was a student skydiver. Didn't seem to change much. Could be wrong but it seemed like they just blew that off. He kept calling it strafing. Side sliding left and right by dropping the elbow and knee to the side.

[tred 0]

Quote

Keep in mind everyone still sucks at jump 11. You will get better and the tunnel will help...eventually.

this. ever time I have a few jumps and think I am getting better I will have a very humbling jump that reminds me I suck. I found the tunnel very helpful. just stick with it and it will all be beneficial when it all starts to click

[BIGUN 1,085]

Watched the video... Looks like you're wearing military boots in the tunnel? If so, ditch them.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Trafficdiver 8]

wildernessmedic

He kept calling it strafing. Side sliding left and right by dropping the elbow and knee to the side.

That's the best way to side slide. Sometimes tunnel rats have different names for the same things in skydiving.

I would keep trying to integrate what you learn there into the sky.

[riggerrob 561]

To practice a relax arch -without wind - try laying face down in a hammock, or laying your back on a huge Swiss/boss ball. The challenge is to breath, relax and feel the stretch in your abdomen muscles.

[Joellercoaster 6]

tred

ever time I have a few jumps and think I am getting better I will have a very humbling jump that reminds me I suck.

Me three.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[wildernessmedic 0]

Thanks will practice that way.

Lose the boots even if I normally jump with them?

[BIGUN 1,085]

Absolutely.

ETA: In fact, you should lose the boots for skydiving.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[pchapman 262]

wildernessmedic

Thanks will practice that way.

Lose the boots even if I normally jump with them?

While heavy, hard-soled boots may provide good ankle support, they are sometimes seen as a concern to instructors, coaches, and later others in the air with you, if you are doing anything other than solo jumps. A boot to the face is worse with an actual boot than with a running shoe.

Edit: although I guess the tunnel instructor was OK with whatever boots you were using (I didn't check)

[wildernessmedic 0]

Ok. Guess I have to buy shoes now.

[Trafficdiver 8]

wildernessmedic

Ok. Guess I have to buy shoes now.

Most tunnels have ones you can borrow.

First off, did you really try to grab a rattlesnake. That's bad ass.

Secondly, good music.

Thirdly. Your flying does not look that bad for so little time.

Now for the negatives, you're trying to hard. Just arch (fuck the wind ) and relax. Do smaller inputs. Try to visualize keeping your hips at the center of the tunnel. That involves a certain balance between leg turns and arm turns, all while arching.

Please stop with the front flips and barrel rolls till you get stable on your back. In my tunnel we don't do that in the belly flying stage. Your instructor is going to need shoulder surgery with a few more sessions like that .

Then just keep at it, the tunnel involves little progressions at a time, sometimes so little you don't notice. It's very frustrating as well. I'm not sure when that ends.

Anyway, save your flips and barrel rolls for the sky, or until you move on to back flying and are stable on your back.

Keep at it, it's worth it in the end.

[BIGUN 1,085]

wildernessmedic

Ok. Guess I have to buy shoes now.

Yes. While I get that us former military jumpers have a hard time with transitioning to tennis shoes - in the end buying tennis shoes will reduce the floppy feet syndrome because you can feel the air pressure on your feet much better. This allows you to keep your feet more symmetrical. It even got to the point where I was jumping in bare feet or rubber-soled sandals for the longest time.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.