Perris Valley Twin Otter crash 1992 - blame?

[pchapman 261]

There will obviously be be some bad feelings around after an accident.

I notice some are soon to commemorate the April 1992 Otter crash at Perris.

How did the crash affect relations there? The Conastser's still operate the very successful DZ as far as I know.

But based on the NTSB report, it suggests they owned the plane, they didn't dip the fuel storage, they didn't check the stored fuel freshly transferred to the fuel truck, they hired the pilot who didn't sump check the tanks, they hired the pilot who feathered the wrong engine and maybe stalled it out after that (no matter how many engines could still run). The pilot would be good for a lot of blame, but he died in the crash too.

Did they actually have seat belts in the plane? They would have been legally required even if in that era they were rarely used by skydivers. That's the accident that changed things as I recall.

Now, the basic online NTSB report doesn't go into much detail, so there may be things that weren't really the owners' fault. So it could quite well be not as simplistic as what I wrote above!

But it could be a little awkward at a DZ when everyone's thinking the owners killed their friends.

Plenty of other pilots have screwed up their reaction to an engine problem, but rarely does the cause seem to link back so directly to the DZ ownership.

[quade 3]

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But it could be a little awkward at a DZ when everyone's thinking the owners killed their friends.

You should visit Perris and talk to Dan BC. He was on the plane.

I don't think anybody else is as qualified to answer you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bigbearfng 9]

Remarks of Chairman Jim Hall
before the Parachute Industry Association
September 20, 1997, Chattanooga, Tennessee

In both of these accidents, the Safety Board found that the parachutists on the flight were not properly secured by seat belts or restraints. This was extremely important because impact forces were survivable, particularly at Perris Valley. Had the jumpers been wearing seat belts, lives may have been saved. The Safety Board made recommendations both to the FAA and to the U.S. Parachute Association following the Perris Valley and Hinckley accidents. The recommendations urged the FAA to require mandatory use of seat belts by parachutists, and develop better safety restraint systems and seating with parachutist industry.


______________________________________________

My first urge was to write a WTF; then I started to copy and paste info to answer some of your questions(easily found if you really wanted further info than the basic NTSB report)
I really don't get where you're coming from with your post????

You do know that DanBC works at Perris now?
+10 to Quade's post.

[grimmie 174]

Like most accidents, there were a number of factors involved.

Any fatal/non fatal jumpship crash can be directly linked to the DZ ownership.

Call Dan.

[Ron 7]

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it suggests they owned the plane,

Not a big deal

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they didn't dip the fuel storage,

Stored fuel often accumulates water.

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they didn't check the stored fuel freshly transferred to the fuel truck,

Fuel trucks often have water in them.

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they hired the pilot who didn't sump check the tanks,

Yep, and good pilots make mistakes.

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they hired the pilot who feathered the wrong engine and maybe stalled it out after that

Good pilots often make mistakes.

I have a hard time blaming the DZ for any of the above.

Now if you could prove the DZ knew the pilot had a habit of not checking things, or was likely to feather the wrong prop, or was unqualified.... I would agree you might have a valid beef with the DZ.

Like others have said... Ask Dan.

Since Dan personally lost many friends, and now WORKS at the DZ... I don't think he personally blames the owners. And he would have the most reasons. And I don't see Dan being a guy that would sell out either.

But if you have a question... Ask him.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skypuppy 1]

Ask Ian about feathering the wrong engine....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kkeenan 13]

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they didn't dip the fuel storage,

Stored fuel often accumulates water.

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they didn't check the stored fuel freshly transferred to the fuel truck,

Fuel trucks often have water in them.

Ron -

I'm curious about your responses (shown above). You are quite right that fuel storage tanks and fuel truck tanks both accumulate water. That is the reason that they normally have their sumps drained regularly, along with the aircraft fuel tanks. Also why failure to do so can be considered negligent on the part of an aircraft operator.

Are you agreeing with the OP on these points or are you saying that one should expect water in these tanks and that's "just the way it goes" ?

Kevin K.

[Ron 7]

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Are you agreeing with the OP on these points or are you saying that one should expect water in these tanks and that's "just the way it goes" ?

From my post:
"I have a hard time blaming the DZ for any of the above"

And:
"Now if you could prove the DZ knew the pilot had a habit of not checking things, or was likely to feather the wrong prop, or was unqualified.... I would agree you might have a valid beef with the DZ. "

And it is almost worthless to check your tanks right after they have been filled... The water has to settle before you can remove it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[riggerrob 558]

I was working at Hinckely, Illinois during the summer of 1992 and I attended WAAAAAY too many funerals!!!

I started working at Perris Valley, California in 1994 and was able to talk with most of the survivors.

In 1997, I helped on the PIA/FAA project that concluded that Hooker (skydiver-specific) belts work.

My shoulder still aches for injuries suffered in the 2008 King Air crash in Pitt Meadows.

Yesterday I explained the finer points of seat belts to my IAD student.

All I know is that - after lawyers get involved - you will never hear the truth!

[Skydivesg 6]

I'm going to take this off track just a bit.

Even though we don't have the best restraints in planes, there is something that could be done right now to help. And it would not cost anything but a bit of time.

Most planes I've been in (that have you sit on the floor) Cessnas, Otters, Skyvans, Pacs, Caravans etc, have the belts arranged so you reach behind you to get your belt (assuming you face the tail).

The distance to the attachement point is usually 12 to 24 inches (behind us).

Since most plane crashes cause the load to shift forward (towards the front of the plane), this means that our bodies will travel 2 to 4 feet before the belt acually stops our momentum. This is assuming we actually tighten the belt. Further if we don't.

If the belts were relocated aft, so we were already at full extension, the load (us) would have much less shift and a greater chance of survival especially for those who are sitting near the forward bulkhead where the load shift is headed.

Simple fix that I've been sharing for years but for some reason it just doesn't happen.

Complacency seems to be the nature of skydivers.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Andy9o8 0]

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after lawyers get involved - you will never hear the truth!

that's a lie.

[riggerrob 558]

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after lawyers get involved - you will never hear the truth!

that's a lie.

.......................................................................

Okay!

It is an OPINION.

I will re-phrase my OPINION: "After lawyers get involved - you will never hear an answer you can understand."
My OPINION is based on too many visits to divorce court. The first visit taught me that (BC legal aid society) court-appointed duty council's primary purpose is to bully dead-beat dads into paying child support. It does not matter if you have no children, DC still try to cram you into that model!

My wallet aches worse than my shoulder!

The more I learn about lawyers, the less I trust lawyers!

[riggerrob 558]

Yes!
Skydivers get complacent.
After the Twin Otter crash in Missouri, authorities (FAA or NTSB) concluded that LOOSE single-point restraints do not work very well.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Simple fix that I've been sharing for years but for some reason it just doesn't happen.

Relocating seatbelts is not a simple fix. It requires government approval.

[wmw999 2,123]

But if, when the airplane isn't full, everyone does reach forward instead of back for the seat belt, it's at least better.

And tighten it down somewhat, too, especially if it's a lap belt. How far do you want to travel befor hitting the sudden stop?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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The more I learn about lawyers, the less I trust lawyers!

me too. 'cept me.

[NickDG 23]

Wow! Is tomorrow really 20-years since that horrible day?

The way I recall it is the fuel pumps weren't working that day so they used the fuel truck to pump fuel into the Otter tanks which at the time they weren't normally doing.

There were also two pilots on-board. One was a new pilot Ben just hired who was in the right seat making his first familiarization flight. I believe he was an experienced pilot but wasn't a jump pilot. Nobody really knows which pilot had the controls for takeoff.

On the seat-belts. At that time (1992) all jump planes had them but almost universally nobody used them. And yes, this crash changed that practice. In looking at the plane post-impact you could see the cockpit was crushed in almost up to the first bulkhead but the cabin area was intact. So seat belt use (along with side by side seating, instead of sitting on the floor in between the legs of the person behind you) could have made a difference in the final death toll. Before you say not using seat belts for take-off is whacked keep in mind it was a different time and it seemed very normal to us.

Then whatever happened - happened . . .

Post-accident inspection seemed to show the good engine was feathered instead of the engine that initially quit. How that happened will forever be a mystery. In any case since fuel is common to both engines the other engine was probably a few seconds away from flaming out too.

One other, and in my eyes more important, factor about those times is the Twin Otter was just becoming "the" plane to have as the DC-3s and Twin Beeches were being phased out. The big draw was the much lessened time to altitude so to attract more customers from other DZs they flew the Otter very aggressively. On T/O they would rotate to a very high angle of attack something a layman would call, "hanging it on the props." And I believe that, more than anything else, is what put them in the corner.

Who was to blame? Sure, like any accident change one factor and you change the outcome, but to me this accident is the very definition of "shit happens." But the great aviation writer Ernie Gann put it much more eloquently, "Fate is the Hunter."

The memorial video is here: http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Detailed/57.html

NickD

[pchapman 261]

Thanks for the answers, especially Nick with the extra background not in the basic accident report.

A variety of things often combine to create an accident, things which sometimes didn't seem a big deal beforehand. I didn't want to single out the owners of Perris specifically, but to see how the community handled one of the better known skydiving crashes.

The accident report did state:

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THEN FORWARD FUEL TANK, WHICH PROVIDES FUEL TO THE RIGHT ENGINE, WAS FOUND TO CONTAIN ABOUT 8
GALS OF A HEAVILY CONTAMINATED MIXTURE COMPOSED OF WATER, AN EMULSIFYING AGENT, AND BACTERIAL GROWTH.

That's interesting. Looking at a Otter panel suggests the fuel feed is usually set to "Normal" rather than "Both on AFT" or "Both on FWD".

Although the report doesn't fill in the details, it suggests there's a chance the other fuel tank wasn't full of crap (maybe not having been topped up that day) and was supplying the left engine.

Which suggests that if the pilot hadn't been doing as high a performance takeoff and had reacted properly to the engine loss, they might have been able to climb out OK. (Of course, with 2 engines gone it didn't need to be stalled either.)

But that's supposition given that I don't know the Twin Otter fuel system at all. And it doesn't change history.

[diverdriver 5]

It's 18 years not twenty. But that milestone will come soon enough. Many people were directly affected by this crash. This one and the one at Hinckley the same year did change the sport of skydiving. But not for long as a rash of crashes in the mid to late 90s showed we did not head the warnings.

And as for the wrong engine being feathered by the pilot lets also ask what was the training program like then for a check-out and what is it like now? I believe you will find them vastly different being more detailed now. The twin otter is a docile plane but it will kill you and has fatal corners of its own.

When I think of this crash I remember more the family members and fellow skydivers left with the aftermath of survival. I've visited Perris on a few occasions and got a personal visit to the crash memorial park. For me it's quite sobering and stokes my fire to continue work on DiverDriver.com.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[riggerrob 558]

April 22, 2015 is the 23 anniversary of the Twin Otter crash in Perris Valley, California. I have jumped with most of the survivors (e.g. Tom Falzone and Dan B.C.) and it left a huge hole in the skydiving community.

Sadly, Transport Canada has learned nothing from the bloody lessons of 1992. 23 years late, many Canadian jump-planes still don't have adequete seat-belts and trial related to the 2008 King Air crash has been post-phoned until April 2016!