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swoopfly

USPA deemed FAA medical invalid

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7 hours ago, swoopfly said:

Does anyone read the parachutist magazine much ? Now I completely understand the other violations of people forging a medical certificate . But USPA in this instance just picked a guy out the crowd and refuse to recognize a VALID, legit FAA medical .......ironically after disapproving false allegations of threats on students ......

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Yep, I saw that. How do you know that the TI was "picked out of the crowd" randomly? It sounds like an assumption (by someone) and I would wager that there was something that specifically drew their fire. There are far too many of us for the BOD to individually police. These proceedings typically begin with a report of some kind. Much more likely that a report was filed and then the CG began their investigation. 

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1 hour ago, Deisel said:

Yep, I saw that. How do you know that the TI was "picked out of the crowd" randomly? It sounds like an assumption (by someone) and I would wager that there was something that specifically drew their fire. There are far too many of us for the BOD to individually police. These proceedings typically begin with a report of some kind. Much more likely that a report was filed and then the CG began their investigation. 

Picked out of the crowd ? Well that’s easy ..... because this Ti is the only person in the history of USPA to have valid paperwork they can’t recognize ? What would you tell an officer who can’t recognize your state issued ID? And violated you on not having one ? Not because you didn’t actually have it , but because since he can’t recognize yours only that puts you in violation . I hope I wouldn’t have to explain the absurdity in that to the average person . Again USPA list the FAA medical as acceptable, you can’t do tandems without a medical while actually holding an FAA medical . And be in violation . 

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8 hours ago, swoopfly said:

Again USPA list the FAA medical as acceptable, you can’t do tandems without a medical while actually holding an FAA medical . And be in violation . 

Whole lot of hair splitting going on here.

It is a USPA tandem rating, so setting aside our expectations of due process, if they decide that you don't meet the requirements they can revoke your rating.

There must be a soap opera of epic proportions behind all of this. Some one either had a big axe to grind with this instructor, or had concerns about this instructors fitness conduct tandems. Either way they reached out the USPA with a compelling enough story to put this all in motion. The USPA doesn't do random audits of these type of thing without being put on the trail.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougH said:

Whole lot of hair splitting going on here.

It is a USPA tandem rating, so setting aside our expectations of due process, if they decide that you don't meet the requirements they can revoke your rating.

There must be a soap opera of epic proportions behind all of this. Some one either had a big axe to grind with this instructor, or had concerns about this instructors fitness conduct tandems. Either way they reached out the USPA with a compelling enough story to put this all in motion. The USPA doesn't do random audits of these type of thing without being put on the trail.

 

 

Not sure how you consider this hair splitting . It’s actually spelled out pretty clearly in the sim and online . You must possess a current class 3 medical , it even goes on to state how to obtain one and mentions it’s the “instructors “ responsibility to keep it up to date ,not USPA in fact they can’t even issue medicals much less revoke one. 

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

Not sure how you consider this hair splitting . It’s actually spelled out pretty clearly in the sim and online . You must possess a current class 3 medical , it even goes on to state how to obtain one and mentions it’s the “instructors “ responsibility to keep it up to date ,not USPA in fact they can’t even issue medicals much less revoke one. 

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

Edited by DougH

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(edited)
4 hours ago, DougH said:

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

Most likely a means to an end. And most likely an expedient and also cowardly way to resolve a problem. 

Edited by gowlerk

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7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Most likely a means to an end. And most likely an expedient and also cowardly way to resolve a problem. 

given the way they seem to be ok with the leadership just doing whatever, are you surprised at all?  i'm not. 

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13 hours ago, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

Interesting ! So you believe a person with no medical training , no medical license even for that matter . Can make an FAA medical determination for the FAA staff . I believe the only issue of the TI rating would be one is the ti on drugs that maybe a problem ......well here’s two letters one from a doctor and another from an Airmen Medical Examiner stating he is not . Issue solved. And two did said instructor violate the bsr we say he did . Operate without a class 3 medical. Well USPa has his medical on file not hard to confirm , there’s even an FAA database with listed instructor . Also what dz do you know allowing ti to operate without a medical . They should be in violation too . But there never was a named location and place because a violation never occurred that the CG claim and they could never give a time date and place that such violation occurred . Seems rather ironic 

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(edited)
59 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

So you believe a person with no medical training , no medical license even for that matter . Can make an FAA medical determination for the FAA staff .

They didn't do that.

59 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

I believe the only issue of the TI rating would be one is the ti on drugs that maybe a problem

Wait, I thought you said that the USPA can't make a medical determination?! "seems rather ironic".

The class 3 medical has a 60 month renewal if you are under 40 years old.

If my medical has 4 years on the clock, and the USPA was put on notice that I recently I suffered a head injury and experienced a partial loss of vision that would have precluded me from getting the medical if they were pre-existing conditions at the time of my last medical, should they knowingly consider my medical requirement to be met for the next four renewals?

Maybe DZ A told me to hang it up because I was having close calls and endangering students, so I just went to Shitty McDZO down the street who was happy to have a warm body. Is the USPA supposed to sit on their hands until the FAA catches up with my medical condition?

I am not saying that the USPA made the right decision, or that due process was followed, but I disagree with your premise that they don't have the authority to do what they did.

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

Edited by DougH

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35 minutes ago, DougH said:

They didn't do that.

Wait, I thought you said that the USPA can't make a medical determination?! "seems rather ironic".

The class 3 medical has a 60 month renewal if you are under 40 years old.

If my medical has 4 years on the clock, and the USPA was put on notice that I recently I suffered a head injury and experienced a partial loss of vision that would have precluded me from getting the medical if they were pre-existing conditions at the time of my last medical, should they knowingly consider my medical requirement to be met for the next four renewals?

Maybe DZ A told me to hang it up because I was having close calls and endangering students, so I just went to Shitty McDZO down the street who was happy to have a warm body. Is the USPA supposed to sit on their hands until the FAA catches up with my medical condition?

I am not saying that the USPA made the right decision, or that due process was followed, but I disagree with your premise that they don't have the authority to do what they did.

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

The sim clearly states you cannot be under the influence of alcohol or drugs (with an obvious reason ). And USPA absolutely has the right to take action against an instructor whose operating under the influence of alcohol or drugs ..... but accusing a person of being on drugs and then them providing evidence that the source was obviously wrong.... and then ignoring the very evidence they claim would saitisfy them.

now accusing an instructor on being on non scheduled drug and claiming it invalidates the medical certificate is quite an opinion ... are we going to start pulling ratings on ti who use Sudafed on those winter mornings because you know it is a non scheduled drug listed not for use by the FAA 

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17 hours ago, DougH said:

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

That's exactly what I was implying, but didn't want to accuse. Seems to me that somebody dropped a dime to the Po-Po and they came a looking. How many time have we seen this play out before... There was no random picking out of a crowd. This guy was targeted for a reason (rightly or wrongly) and the medical was the vehicle used to crush him. IMO. 

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On 6/1/2022 at 3:51 PM, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

    I notice your stuck on the executive committess stance that they refuse to recognize a  Valid FAA medical. But if you can differentiate from the CG and EC "verbage" you will notice the story changed quite offten in this case just like the regional directors over this case. If you will note:

  " USPA has suspended your tandem rating until you lawfully renew your FAA 3rd class medical through Joseph E. Allen, M.D., AME #03636 or an AME he recommends. If an AME, other than Dr. Allen, issues you a FAA Medical Certificate, the Compliance Group must receive, in writing, from that AME, confirmation that he has received all your medication and medical history from Dr. Allen"

 

 

   Now by claiming a member MUST "Lawfully" renew a medical would be indictive of saying the meidcal they hold is not valid! i dont care how you word it. Even going on to pick out the only medical examiner across the entire united states who may renew it is a peculiar reach within itself. There is no requirement here to meet these conditions and at the time the letter was written the TI in question had a medical in his hand, that was valid according to the FAA. one with common sense would assume the case would be closed. but Then the EC decided that since the CG was proven wrong they can just all decide not to accept an FAA medical certificate. if one cares to read the governance manual it states all members of this organization will be treated openly honestly and most important FAIRLY. I got the permission of the member to share this letter in its redacted form. 

edited CG Letter.pdf

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