Ukraine

[olofscience 464]

6 hours ago, Slim King said:

With over 30% of Ukraines power structure destroyed

Targeting energy facilities isn't "bombing them back into the Stone Age".

At best, it's back to the 1800s when there wasn't any electricity.

Any signs that Ukrainians are desperate to negotiate? Nope. Oh, and Russia is about to lose Kherson.

[Phil1111 1,099]

4 hours ago, olofscience said:

Targeting energy facilities isn't "bombing them back into the Stone Age".

At best, it's back to the 1800s when there wasn't any electricity.

Any signs that Ukrainians are desperate to negotiate? Nope. Oh, and Russia is about to lose Kherson.

Germany tried this in England in WW2. Didn't work then.

The US tried this during the Vietnam war. Didn't work then.

The US tried this during the Afghanistan war. Didn't work then.

If your name is Slim and you never studied history. Doesn't comprehend now.

[wmw999 2,334]

50 minutes ago, Slim King said:

“They say that there will be electricity today,” he wrote by text message. “If it continues much longer like this, we’ll have to live like cave people.

Gosh — that sounds like Florida and Puerto Rico after the hurricanes

Wendy P. 

[olofscience 464]

7 hours ago, Slim King said:

It's time to stop the warmongering and negotiate PEACE!!!!!

Ukraine is asking for more air defence weapons, not negotiations.

The only one asking for negotiations, is you. Hope Putin's paying you well.

[wolfriverjoe 1,480]

23 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Ukraine is asking for more air defence weapons, not negotiations.

The only one asking for negotiations, is you. Hope Putin's paying you well.

Well, I'm sure the Ukrainians would accept peace terms that were fair. 

Something like:

Immediate departure of all Russians from all Ukrainian territory (including Crimea).

Immediate return of all kidnapped Ukrainians from Russia.

Russia to surrender all leaders (both military and civilian) credibly accused of war crimes to the Hague.

Russia to pay for all damages to Ukrainian property. Lifting the trade embargo and allowing Russia to sell oil and gas would go a long way towards paying these reparations.

I doubt this will happen, but it would be nice.

[brenthutch 422]

8 hours ago, Slim King said:

Millions are not without power here in Florida. We do not face a winter with no hope of power or water pumps. Power stations are not being blown up on a daily basis. Ian went right over the top of us and we didn't even lose power. (We'll be at a party on the beach shortly) Zalenski said Russia had destroyed 30% of their power grid  in 10 days. (It was built by Russia so they know the weak points) Now even more attacks and millions in the dark. It's time to stop the warmongering and negotiate PEACE!!!!!

The best way to ensure peace is to continue to demilitarize Russia via Ukraine. Russia has no ability to reconstitute a modern military without the import of Western technology. Its meager economy is continuing to contract and it is in a demographic death spiral which it can not reverse.  We are witnessing the death throes of a 19th century empire.  Let’s pray that it ends in a whimper and not a bang.

Edited October 24, 2022 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 1,099]

16 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, I'm sure the Ukrainians would accept peace terms that were fair. 

Something like:

Immediate departure of all Russians from all Ukrainian territory (including Crimea).

Immediate return of all kidnapped Ukrainians from Russia.

Russia to surrender all leaders (both military and civilian) credibly accused of war crimes to the Hague.

Russia to pay for all damages to Ukrainian property. Lifting the trade embargo and allowing Russia to sell oil and gas would go a long way towards paying these reparations.

I doubt this will happen, but it would be nice.

Pay for any loss to foreign corporations who had to sever commercial operations. Plus pay for loss of life, physical and psychological injury. Including a hefty amount for punitive damages.

[Phil1111 1,099]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

The best way to ensure peace is to continue to demilitarize Russia via Ukraine. Russia has no ability to reconstitute a modern military without the import of Western technology.  Its meager economy is continuing to contract and it is in a demographic death spiral which it can not reverse.  We are witnessing the death throes of a 19th century empire.  Let’s pray that it ends in a whimper and not a bang.

Probably only the third or fourth time that i would agree with you. "demilitarize Russia via Ukraine" would seem to imply a loss of Ukrainian lives. Which should not be part of the equation.

[brenthutch 422]

9 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Probably only the third or fourth time that i would agree with you. "demilitarize Russia via Ukraine" would seem to imply a loss of Ukrainian lives. Which should not be part of the equation.

Should not but, regrettably is part of the equation.

[brenthutch 422]

7 minutes ago, Slim King said:

The US used two atomic bombs on Japan and killed thousands of innocent women and children  to end a war. Do you think  that Putin has more morals than the US? Not a good bet.

It’s not a bet it is a fact, the war is over and Russia has lost.  The only decision left for Putin is how much more death and destruction will have to be endured (on both sides). Much like WWII was decided by the end of ‘42.

[brenthutch 422]

2 minutes ago, Slim King said:

I lived through the Viet Nam war ... This is the same scam. Same propaganda and same goals. We were all told that we were winning right up until we lost.

“History doesn’t repeat itself but it rhymes”

Replace the US with Russia and Vietnam with Ukraine and play that through.

[wmw999 2,334]

And how many US veterans participated in an attempt to overturn an election in the US?

I don't think that the army is the people. It's a subset. Ukraine also repeatedly denied Yanukovich's awarding of the Hero of Ukraine medal to Bandera. It should be noted that Yanukovich is now living in Russia. And, to be fair, Russian condemned the awarding, just as just about every other sentient being did.

We have bigots and Nazis in our armies, too. Along with our militias.

Wendy P.

[wmw999 2,334]

Both. Because he's killing some Nazis, along with a whole lot of non-Nazis. Kind of like how COVID killed some criminals, along with a whole lot of non-criminals. That doesn't really mean that COVID is God's justice being realized.

Wendy P.

[murps2000 86]

10 hours ago, Slim King said:

IMHO it's all a scam. They are laundering money just as before. Billions of Dollars and no one is keeping track of where it is going. The rich get richer and the taxpayers foot the bill every time while poor children die in bloody battlefields ... Listen and learn from these rhymes ...

And when you ask them "How much should we give?" They only answer "More More More!!!"

You’re using a creedence song to support your position. You debate like a child, or a teenager at best.

[olofscience 464]

15 hours ago, Slim King said:

Stop the warmongering ... Go for PEACE!!!!!

Are you Ukranian in Ukraine?

If not, you don't speak for them. If they want to negotiate, they'll ask for it. Not through you, a random Florida man.

[murps2000 86]

2 hours ago, Slim King said:

Ad Hominem attacks don't work on me .. Calling me names doesn't either. Obviously you didn't even read the thread.

I’m not trying to get anything to “work” on you and I didn’t call you any names. I made an observation as to your style of debate. I’ve read this thread. 

[murps2000 86]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/top-ukrainian-general-discusses-war-russia-putins-nuclear/story?id=91989074

Interesting take from one of Ukraine’s top generals. The nuclear threat is real but I’d be surprised if Putin destroyed the dam, at least in the immediate future. The water supply to Crimea would be taken out if he did. He might do it later on, in much the same way that Saddam Hussein lit oil wells on fire as he retreated in the first gulf war.

[brenthutch 422]

6 hours ago, Slim King said:

Exactly ....That's my point .. All the propaganda claims that these people are sitting in their basements without power and water and LOVING IT!!!!! Remember when the same media told us there were WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq????? And we killed 100,000 civilians and found out they lied to us? They always lie before a war. Just like now ... The Ukrainian people should be allowed to vote on it ... But they won't allow that.

You don’t need to believe Western sources, just listen to Putin. He wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire. If we don’t stop him in Ukraine he will move on to the Baltic states which would trigger article five and then…..

[olofscience 464]

7 hours ago, Slim King said:

The Ukrainian people should be allowed to vote on it ... But they won't allow that.

Nobody's even asking for negotiations. Even with them complaining about power cuts, they're not asking to even vote on negotiations. Even from the articles you linked.

Just you, because you're pro-Putin.

They're asking for more help from the west, and more weapons.

Edited October 25, 2022 by olofscience

[gowlerk 2,114]

14 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Just you, because you're pro-Putin.

What’s up with the right wing crazies and their Putin worship anyway? Dictators R Us?

[Phil1111 1,099]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

...Just you, because you're pro-Putin.

They're asking for more help from the west, and more weapons.

"A chilling new segment on Russia's state-funded TV Channel Russia Today (RT) saw a Kremlin propagandist arguing in favour of drowning Ukrainian children in rivers and burning them in their own homes.

RT's Director of Broadcasting Anton Krasovsky suggested that any child who believes their country is being occupied by Russia needs to be thrown into a fast river and drowned alive.

His other suggestion was to put the children into wooden houses, nail the doors shut and burn them alive.

"They should have been drowned in the Tysyna River, right there where the ducklings swim," he says with a smirk on his face.

"Just drown those children. Drown them."

Typical Putin loving rhetoric about the special operation. So where are the real Nazi's?

[billvon 2,772]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

His other suggestion was to put the children into wooden houses, nail the doors shut and burn them alive.

The Russian trolls will counter with "so you want children BURNED ALIVE?  The only way to prevent that is to give Putin whatever he wants!!!!!"

[kallend 1,853]

11 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 

His other suggestion was to put the children into wooden houses, nail the doors shut and burn them alive.

.  . .

So where are the real Nazi's?

Rather like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

[gowlerk 2,114]

12 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

RT's Director of Broadcasting Anton Krasovsky suggested that any child who believes their country is being occupied by Russia needs to be thrown into a fast river and drowned alive.

I guess even RT has limits. Krasovsky has been suspended.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-tv-presenter-krasovsky-drown-ukrainian-children-outrage/32097102.html

[wolfriverjoe 1,480]

35 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I guess even RT has limits. Krasovsky has been suspended.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-tv-presenter-krasovsky-drown-ukrainian-children-outrage/32097102.html

Well, it goes against the narrative that the Russians are 'liberators', going in to 'save the Ukrainians who love Russia from all the Nazis that are murdering them'.

Instead it shows the reality that the Russians are murderous vicious thugs, invading a peaceful neighbor.