JoeWeber 2,299 #26 June 6, 2021 22 minutes ago, lippy said: Any here I thought you just wanted to come here to talk about skydiving. Alright, your free jump has been reinstated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #27 June 6, 2021 3 hours ago, lippy said: Any here I thought you just wanted to come here to talk about skydiving. Not the forum for it, remember? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #28 June 6, 2021 4 hours ago, gowlerk said: How many babies have your birthed? Completely irrevelevant that I didn't "birth" them, but I've fathered two; and those pregnancies were every bit as much my concern as they were their mother's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #29 June 6, 2021 What goes on inside a woman's body is nobody's business but her own. Not the Pope's, not a politician's, not rcdrury's, not mine, not the governor of Texas's or any legislators'. Her business, and hers alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #30 June 6, 2021 Just now, kallend said: What goes on inside a woman's body is nobody's business but her own. But "who" goes on inside her body is another issue; and the only issue pertinant to this discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #31 June 6, 2021 Just now, rcdrury said: But "who" goes on inside her body is another issue; and the only issue pertinant to this discussion. There is no "who" except the woman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #32 June 6, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, kallend said: There is no "who" except the woman. You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. Edited June 6, 2021 by rcdrury Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,912 #33 June 6, 2021 15 minutes ago, rcdrury said: You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. Are you a true believer in "life beginning at conception"? Or are you one of those fake believers who would make exceptions for cases of rape and incest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #34 June 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, rcdrury said: You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. Hi rc, In this country, the children are non-existent until they are born. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #35 June 6, 2021 40 minutes ago, kallend said: What goes on inside a woman's body is nobody's business but her own. Not the Pope's, not a politician's, not rcdrury's, not mine, not the governor of Texas's or any legislators'. Her business, and hers alone. You know the rules: The GOP is all about preserving life, right up to the moment of birth; After that it's every man for himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #36 June 6, 2021 32 minutes ago, rcdrury said: You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. Keep your nose out of womens' genitals (unless invited in). It simply is none of your business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #37 June 6, 2021 15 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi rc, In this country, the children are non-existent until they are born. Jerry Baumchen If they were people they'd be given a SocSec number, be counted in the census, be eligible for a passport and would be a tax deduction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 June 6, 2021 33 minutes ago, rcdrury said: You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. And yet the ~40% of "living human children" that are spontaneously aborted by the mother's body are just . . . ignored. Like they never existed. It's almost as if you have two sets of standards! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #39 June 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, billvon said: And yet the ~40% of "living human children" that are spontaneously aborted by the mother's body are just . . . ignored. Like they never existed. It's almost as if you have two sets of standards! My favorite are Chimera's. No one has yet to explain where the extra soul goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #40 June 7, 2021 1 hour ago, rcdrury said: You've pinpointed the problem. So many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. (Here's where you claim that it's "just a lump of cells.") Pathetic. I can assure you that the woman's commitment to a pregnancy has more impact than a man's does. I'm a woman, and I've been pregnant, and I've had a baby. There are more health impacts, more job impacts, on the woman than on the man. Period. And, yes, there are so many denying the reality of and responsibility for the children they've created. Most of them are fathers who don't want to be bothered. Until they're born, they're not children, any more than fertilized eggs are chickens. They deserve respect and humane treatment, but often the needs of the mother are in conflict with the needs of the child -- especially if she's pregnant without its having been planned. Until they're capable of being alive outside the womb, they're a far bigger impact on the mother than on the father. She is the only one providing physical support to the pregnancy. Until the pregnancy has attained the age of viability, it should be her final decision, preferably with him being involved in it. Of course -- when the father cuts out, he generally doesn't involve the mother, does he? After the normal age of viability, I honestly believe that exceptions should be made for non-viable fetuses, along with mother's health concerns, as well as the rape and incest exceptions. People involved in those situations are compromised already, and may be in situations that are dangerous enough that getting an abortion early isn't reasonable. Wendy P. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #41 June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi rc, In this country, the children are non-existent until they are born. Jerry Baumchen Basic biology and geneology says different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #42 June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, kallend said: If they were people they'd be given a SocSec number, be counted in the census, be eligible for a passport and would be a tax deduction. Hey, works for me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #43 June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, wmw999 said: I can assure you that the woman's commitment to a pregnancy has more impact than a man's does... All great points; and all irrelevant as to the "fetus'" biological standing or right to live. Let's address all of them; but let the innocent child live in the meantime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #44 June 7, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, wmw999 said: Edited June 7, 2021 by rcdrury Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #45 June 7, 2021 you know how you can tell the gop doesn't care about anything other than controlling women in this abortion bullshit? they try to use "christian" values, but totally ignore the fact that the bible says a child has no soul until it takes it's first breath. so a fetus has no soul, at least according to the bible. to me, it isn't a child until you can leave it alone for a while (a few hours) without it dying. like at least 27 weeks or so (not real sure on when they can). those premies that they put in incubators don't count, since they can't live more than a minute or so without the machines. but then again, i prefer leaving my wishes or desires out of a woman's business. her body, her business, period, no exceptions. piss on anyone who tries controlling them through ANY method without their consent. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #46 June 7, 2021 There is no legitimate scientific OR religious basis for the GOP point of view on this one, it's purely a control thing. In fact, as you say, in the bible first breath is the point at which life begins so in this case it is actually science that is more restrictive. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #47 June 7, 2021 7 hours ago, rcdrury said: All great points; and all irrelevant as to the "fetus'" biological standing or right to live. Let's address all of them; but let the innocent child live in the meantime. And when does the "innocent child" become a person. At the moment of conception? At the moment the mother thinks there's a possibility of being pregnant? Do you advocate for a procedure to check women for extra bleeding on a period? How about inquests for miscarriages? Burials and gravestones mandated? I'm assuming you think it's fair for the woman, if single, to be the one to pay for this. Someone has to. Going down the "all costs to protect the fetus" path has consequences. Yes, in a supportive community where women aren't expected to work, then this can happen. Otherwise, a rape or incident of incest can have an even greater cost on the woman than it does now. And it becomes clear that the woman is just a vessel. Maybe forced vasectomies for men who abandon children (even pre-birth ones), or at the very least forced paternity tests. After all, if the woman has to have her body invaded, why shouldn't the man? Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #48 June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, sfzombie13 said: i prefer leaving my wishes or desires out of a woman's business. her body, her business, period, no exceptions. piss on anyone who tries controlling them through ANY method without their consent. Agree 100% (except for the absence of capitalizations). Her body, her business, her decision. Popes, priests, pastors and politicians should butt-out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcdrury 2 #49 June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: Maybe forced vasectomies for men who abandon children (even pre-birth ones), or at the very least forced paternity tests. After all, if the woman has to have her body invaded, why shouldn't the man? I have no problem with that, as long as due process is exercised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #50 June 7, 2021 6 hours ago, sfzombie13 said: you know how you can tell the gop doesn't care about anything other than controlling women in this abortion bullshit? You can't really tell by the examples you give. But you can tell by the fact that once the children are born, the GOP doesn't really give a shit anymore. Universal healthcare: nope Subsidized daycare: nope Education: only decent if you can pay for it Food security: don't be so damn lazy etc. etc. They claim to care about children, but they really stop caring once a child is born. That is how you know this is really only about controlling women. The American Right is no different from any of the Muslim extremist regimes: control through religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites