brenthutch 384 #376 February 27, 2021 Give me a specific example. BillV gave several, housing, employment, educational, vocational and even epicureal. They were all wrong of course but at least he tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #377 February 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said: it's more like air. there is plenty for everyone. Or water...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #378 February 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said: this is what so many people refuse to acknowledge. they see it like a pie. give a slice to someone who doesn't have one means to take it away from them to do so. it's more like air. there is plenty for everyone. giving air to one does not mean you take it away from another. or we could just bake more pies. Or just make more first place metals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 911 #379 February 27, 2021 8 hours ago, airdvr said: Bill...you really jumped the shark with that post. Sounds like there are no employed black doctors living in nice apartments eating dinner at a restaurant. Yeah look at Tiger Woods. Proof there is no racism in America eh Brent? ...er all the other KKK, apologists, etc. Yourself excluded of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,341 #380 February 27, 2021 2 hours ago, brenthutch said: Source please, and not something from last century. BTW, those same inequities were suffered by white folks as well. The Irish, Italians and Jews to name a few. How about a Harvard professor being arrested on his own porch? Look up Henry Louis Gates Jr. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #381 February 27, 2021 30 minutes ago, gowlerk said: Or water...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #382 February 27, 2021 12 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: How about a Harvard professor being arrested on his own porch? Look up Henry Louis Gates Jr. You mean this guy? “Gates found the front door to his home jammed shut and, with the help of his driver, tried to force it open. A local witness reported their activity to the police as a potential burglary in progress.” “Crowley's states that he believed Gates was lawfully in the residence, but that he was surprised and confused by Gates's behavior, which included a threat that Crowley did not know who he was "messing with." Crowley then asked Gates for a photo ID so as to verify he was the resident of the house; Gates initially refused, but then did supply his Harvard University identification card. Crowley wrote that Gates repeatedly shouted requests for his identification. Crowley then told Gates that he was leaving his residence and that if Gates wanted to continue discussing the matter, he would speak to him outside. Gates replied, "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside." “Gates stepped onto his front porch and continued to yell at Crowley, accusing him of racial bias and saying he had not heard the last of him. Faced with this tumultuous behavior from Gates, even though he was still standing on his own front porch, Crowley warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. When Gates ignored this warning and persisted in his behavior, and likewise ignored a second warning from Crowley, Crowley informed him that he was under arrest.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #383 February 27, 2021 We can always find examples of people being discriminated against. All races. Calling out one race as the cause of other's problems is a mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #384 February 27, 2021 55 minutes ago, gowlerk said: Or water...... i almost used that but in some places, like third world countries, some places in wv, flint mi, etc they don't have enough water to go around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #385 February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, airdvr said: We can always find examples of people being discriminated against. All races. Calling out one race as the cause of other's problems is a mistake. when one race built racism into the constitution of the nation we can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #386 February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, sfzombie13 said: when one race built racism into the constitution of the nation we can. When I asked for a current example of systemic racism and not one from the 19th or 20th century, I should have included the 18th century.....my bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #387 February 27, 2021 3 hours ago, airdvr said: We can always find examples of people being discriminated against. All races. Calling out one race as the cause of other's problems is a mistake. Not when it is what is happening. Trying to preserve privledge by denying discrimination is a larger mistake IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #388 February 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, billvon said: Not when it is what is happening. Trying to preserve privledge by denying discrimination is a larger mistake IMO. I agree but your you've missed the target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #389 February 27, 2021 19 minutes ago, airdvr said: I agree but your you've missed the target. What do you think "the target" is? Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #390 February 27, 2021 The target should be the 1 percenters who've gamed the system to their advantage. There's only so much money to go around and they've got most of it. Again...not race, class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #391 February 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, airdvr said: The target should be the 1 percenters who've gamed the system to their advantage. There's only so much money to go around and they've got most of it. Again...not race, class. So, you want to deflect the discussion away from the fact that being black in our society is an overall disadvantage to the the fact that overall our society is stratified? It's not that I disagree with you, but both are true and only one is the subject of the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #392 February 27, 2021 The two are correlated in the US; that's the institutionalized racism. That said, I agree that economic disparity is probably a bigger problem right now. One way around it is increased taxation, but, of course, then all those 1%ers go somewhere else. Or at least that's the argument of every conservative, ever, when the topic is raised. Buying things for source and value, rather than just for price, is one way to start fixing this at an individual level. Buy local food from farmers. Yeah, the variety is seasonal rather than constant, but at least then the vast majority of what you spend goes to the producer. And you're voting with your dollars. No, it's not going to impact the fact that Bill Gates can give away 95% of his money and still be really, really, rich. But it's also not going to impact the fact that Donald Trump will give away virtually none of his wealth, either. You can't fix those. And you can't fix prejudice in others. But if you find yourself always seeing the plus side of one type of person (religious zealot, farmer, police officer, whatever), and always seeing the deficiencies in another (atheist, inner city dweller, musician), that's prejudice. The people you don't understand are just as complex as the ones you do, and just as deserving of being understood. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #393 February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, wmw999 said: One way around it is increased taxation, but, of course, then all those 1%ers go somewhere else. Or at least that's the argument of every conservative, ever, when the topic is raised. Two words. Minimum wage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #394 February 27, 2021 I want to talk about reality. There are plenty of people who have been discriminated against by lack of opportunity. It's systemic, but not the part of the system you guys think it is. The specific disadvantage suffered by blacks in this country has been addressed by the government on multiple occasions. To be fair throwing money at the problem won't solve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #395 February 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, airdvr said: I want to talk about reality. There are plenty of people who have been discriminated against by lack of opportunity. It's systemic, but not the part of the system you guys think it is. The specific disadvantage suffered by blacks in this country has been addressed by the government on multiple occasions. To be fair throwing money at the problem won't solve it. The subject is white privilege. State governments enacting voter suppression laws aimed at making it more difficult for people to vote is a good example of it. Too many US states are addressing this particular "specific disadvantage" by trying to increase it. This may or may not be out of a dislike of black people, it's primary motivation is retaining political power. But it nonetheless is white privilege at work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #396 February 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, airdvr said: The target should be the 1 percenters who've gamed the system to their advantage. There's only so much money to go around and they've got most of it. Again...not race, class. That is a different target. Also a good one. But it's a different problem from racism. I mean, would you argue that since 18% of American women have had someone rape them or attempt to rape them, that it's rape, not class, that's the problem? That is A problem. It is not the problem we're talking about here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #397 February 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, airdvr said: I want to talk about reality. There are plenty of people who have been discriminated against by lack of opportunity. It's systemic, but not the part of the system you guys think it is. The specific disadvantage suffered by blacks in this country has been addressed by the government on multiple occasions. Yes, they have tried, which speaks well of them. It's still a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #398 February 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, billvon said: That is a different target. Also a good one. But it's a different problem from racism. I mean, would you argue that since 18% of American women have had someone rape them or attempt to rape them, that it's rape, not class, that's the problem? That is A problem. It is not the problem we're talking about here. That's the problem. Any time someone wants to have a conversation about the real problems faced by the lower classes of folks it gets perverted by race. Do you honestly believe labeling something as a "race problem" will get the problem solved? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #399 February 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, airdvr said: Do you honestly believe labeling something as a "race problem" will get the problem solved? Not by the people who aren't of that race. Just as the class problem isn't going to be fixed by people who aren't of the dissatisfied class. It's a power problem, and the people with it don't want to give it up. Race, class, gender -- these are axes of human existence, and they have power associated with them. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #400 February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, airdvr said: Do you honestly believe labeling something as a "race problem" will get the problem solved? If it's a race problem - yes. Imagine you are seeing a lot of deaths at your DZ. Someone looks into it, and it turns out that people's reserves are coming apart at terminal openings due to a slider problem. But the DZ gear dealer sells those reserves and he swears that they are not the problem. So out of deference to him (because he's helped you out a lot) you refer to the problem as an unstable deployment problem, not a reserve problem. Will that get the problem solved? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites