Upper age limit for student

[villageidiot 0]

Curious as to whether a 70-year-old mentally and physically fit man would be accepted at most dropzones as a student?

[MikeJD 0]

I'd say there are two factors to consider - the rules of the governing body in that locale, and then on top of that the view/ assessment of the Chief Instructor or DZO.

Presumably you mean in Australia, and presumably you're talking about AFF or a static line FJC rather than a tandem. I don't know what the APF says, but in the UK the BPA has an upper age limit of 55 for first-time students, so there would be no question of a BPA dropzone training a 70-year old - they wouldn't be allowed to. Maybe it'll be relaxed at some point, but right now those are the rules - however, I know for sure that other countries have a higher (or possibly no) age limit.

[dthames 0]

MikeJD

I'd say there are two factors to consider - the rules of the governing body in that locale, and then on top of that the view/ assessment of the Chief Instructor or DZO.

Presumably you mean in Australia, and presumably you're talking about AFF or a static line FJC rather than a tandem. I don't know what the APF says, but in the UK the BPA has an upper age limit of 55 for first-time students, so there would be no question of a BPA dropzone training a 70-year old - they wouldn't be allowed to. Maybe it'll be relaxed at some point, but right now those are the rules - however, I know for sure that other countries have a higher (or possibly no) age limit.

55, really? It is sad that people make rules and just throw out numbers without considering the individual. I am sure you could find a good number of 60 year olds that were better to train than some 40 year olds that are on the low side in physical and mental condition.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[gowlerk 2,114]

Everywhere in the world would at least consider him and then decide. Except in the peculiar nation of Great Britain where the local nannies have a 55 year old age limit.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[faulknerwn 38]

I currently have an AFF level 6 student who is 63 I believe. He is a glider pilot and has wind tunnel time and is doing well.

[Pat007 0]

I started and graduated AFF at age 56. Now, nearing age 60, I have 400 jumps, a C license, and a coach rating. If you're physically and mentally fit age has nothing to do with it.

My Dad used to ask me if someone jumped off a bridge would I do that too? No, but if they jumped out of an airplane, that's a different question...

[keithbar 1]

You tell them. Grasshopper

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[jimjumper 25]

We trained and jumped an 82 year old ex-fighter pilot and he did OK. You have to evaluate the student both before the the training and during, then decide whether they can perform the tasks needed.

[riggerrob 613]

The key factor is how fast older students are deteriorating.
Commercial pilot mericals are required once a year before age 40, then every six months as they age. Few commercial pilots still work past age 60.
General health is the key. If the older student is athletic, flexible, alert and mentally agile, then learning skydiving should be easy.
For example: retired US President George Bush Senior did his second jump at age 73. It was all AFF jump in 1997. I packed his reserve. His regular tennis habit and his previous work as a navy pilot eased the learning process.

Also consider that we heal slower as we age.
Right now I am trying to lose a few pounds and build muscle. That is a slow process at age 59.

[JohnMitchell 16]

I gotta say this guy looks a decade or two younger than he is.

It does depend on the mental and physical condition of the person. I've seen 50-somethings in poor shape, with poor attitudes, that shouldn't have been jumping and didn't last long.

[tkhayes 300]

there are so many considerations. Generally I would say no.

http://www.skydivecity.com/weight-age-limits/

Certainly it can be the exception and not the rule. There are things you do when you are 20, riding motorcycles, climbing rocks, jumping out of planes

There are things you do when you are 30 and 40, learning to fly, scuba, activities sure

there are even things you start when you are 50 and 60......but I think learning how to skydive when you are 70 means you missed the boat.

I want to be an astronaut....but that does not matter, nor does it even matter what kind of shape I am in....at 56, it is NOT going to happen.

[cpoxon 0]

MikeJD

I don't know what the APF says, but in the UK the BPA has an upper age limit of 55 for first-time students, so there would be no question of a BPA dropzone training a 70-year old - they wouldn't be allowed to.

Section 11 (Medical) Para 2 (General) Sub-Para 2.1 of the BPA Operations Manual

Exceptions to the higher age limit may be permitted if the person has previous recorded parachute experience (not to include Student Tandem Parachutist descents).

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[gowlerk 2,114]

cpoxon

***I don't know what the APF says, but in the UK the BPA has an upper age limit of 55 for first-time students, so there would be no question of a BPA dropzone training a 70-year old - they wouldn't be allowed to.

Section 11 (Medical) Para 2 (General) Sub-Para 2.1 of the BPA Operations Manual

Exceptions to the higher age limit may be permitted if the person has previous recorded parachute experience (not to include Student Tandem Parachutist descents).

Would you have to apply to the High Court to get this permission? Perhaps the Star Chamber?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[cpoxon 0]

More onerous than that; the Chief Instructor

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[obelixtim 147]

Back in the days of dangle and thump, there was good reason to worry about the age of students. These days, good gear significantly mitigates the risks to older students.

In 1994 I trained a group of 21 ex Paras celebrating the 50th anniversary of operation Market Garden.

They all did a SL jump, The youngest was 71, the oldest 82. They did fine. No drama, no injuries, and one of the easiest groups I ever trained.

They loved the exit altitude, square canopies and stand up landings, but declined our kind offer of having a few guys on the ground shooting at them under canopy...!!

We had them sign a medical waiver (all students did that), because a doctors certificate really doesn't have any bearing on ones fitness to jump.

I found out later that several of them had lied on their waivers when answering "no" to the list in the medical questionnaire......such is the nature of ex paras....but none were affected by this.

I'm a firm believer in giving people the right and responsibility to make their own decisions, surely they are old enough to do so. These guys, (in my eyes) had earned the right to make this jump 50 years previously.

Who am I to make a decision about suitability to jump, based on someones age? Arrogance in the extreme.

It is one thing to do the training, but ultimately it was my decision to clear them to jump. They were left in no doubt that if they didn't match up in training, they would not be allowed to go solo. Of them all, there was one I wasn't sure about, but the easy solution was to strap him on the front of a tandem.

For these guys, doing this jump was really important, for most it was something to savour in the twilight of their lives.

There was no way I was going to deny them the chance to do this jump if I could possibly make it happen. I felt extremely humble in their presence, and it was a privilege to do so.

Banning people based on age is a crock.

It says more about the so called instructor if he has to resort to this to avoid a challenge.

May as well hand in your rating.......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[GD64 1]

Props to you......
"shooting at them under canopy" .....very funny.
Very well done.... obelixtim!!

[Phil1111 1,099]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4169936;search_string=How%20old%20is%20too%20old%3F%20;#4169936

[cpoxon 0]

Nice rant, but all of those guys would be able to jump in the UK because of their previous parachute experience.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[obelixtim 147]

cpoxon

Nice rant, but all of those guys would be able to jump in the UK because of their previous parachute experience.

How come then, that Arnhem vets around the world who wanted to do this solo, in every case, were shunned?

Including the UK.

Their previous experience counted for nothing. The British Parachute community ran for the hills when approached about this.

The vets who did do a jump on the day, in other countries without exception, did tandems. The only choice they got.

Even my mob were turned down by two other organisations in NZ, one being the military. These guys are connected around the world, and they talk, and I know there was massive disappointment (not to mention a sense of rejection) that they were not able to jump solo in other countries.

Thats what they all wanted, and tried to organise.

My lot were, of course, stoked.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[dthames 0]

Pat007

I started and graduated AFF at age 56. Now, nearing age 60, I have 400 jumps, a C license, and a coach rating. If you're physically and mentally fit age has nothing to do with it.

I was 54 when I started and will be 60 in Oct, So I am right there with you.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Phil1111 1,099]

obelixtim

***Nice rant, but all of those guys would be able to jump in the UK because of their previous parachute experience.

How come then, that Arnhem vets around the world who wanted to do this solo, in every case, were shunned?

Including the UK.

Their previous experience counted for nothing. The British Parachute community ran for the hills when approached about this.

The vets who did do a jump on the day, in other countries without exception, did tandems. The only choice they got.

Even my mob were turned down by two other organisations in NZ, one being the military. These guys are connected around the world, and they talk, and I know there was massive disappointment (not to mention a sense of rejection) that they were not able to jump solo in other countries.

Thats what they all wanted, and tried to organise.

My lot were, of course, stoked.

Sounds like an old discussion here with regards to the BPA:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4805055;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

[jumpsalot-2 3]

You look so young in your avatar ....

Life is short ... jump often.

[kallend 1,853]

dthames

***I'd say there are two factors to consider - the rules of the governing body in that locale, and then on top of that the view/ assessment of the Chief Instructor or DZO.

Presumably you mean in Australia, and presumably you're talking about AFF or a static line FJC rather than a tandem. I don't know what the APF says, but in the UK the BPA has an upper age limit of 55 for first-time students, so there would be no question of a BPA dropzone training a 70-year old - they wouldn't be allowed to. Maybe it'll be relaxed at some point, but right now those are the rules - however, I know for sure that other countries have a higher (or possibly no) age limit.

55, really? It is sad that people make rules and just throw out numbers without considering the individual. I am sure you could find a good number of 60 year olds that were better to train than some 40 year olds that are on the low side in physical and mental condition.

I started skydiving at age 51. At 70, I got an FAI world record in wingsuiting. I also have a nationals medal, and a bunch of POPS and SOS records. Just got invited to the Arizona Challenge.

Started Scuba at 69. Currently working on my Advanced Open Water cert.

I think arbitrary age restrictions are stupid.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rmarshall234 13]

>I think arbitrary age restrictions are stupid.

I couldn't agree more.

John Glenn was 77 years old when he went back into space as an astronaut aboard the Space Shuttle.

Everyone should be evaluated separately but they should at least be given a chance to prove themselves. Nothing wrong with charging them for that opportunity either. Good communication is the key.