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honest.py

getting into swooping - crossfire2 characteristic

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Long story short... I've been jumping a crossfire2 119 for past 2 months (100 jumps, 1.5 WL)
Before that I've put another 250 jumps on Safire2 139 (1.25 WL)

Despite different sizes and trims I found Saf2 as a better swooping canopy. I know, neither of these are designed for swooping
Don't get me wrong crossfire2 is sick, love her smooth openings and powerful breaks but from the other hand the recovery arch is surprisingly short + front risers pressure make it very difficult to learn high performance landing

On my good old Saf2 I usually started my 90s at around 300ft and held it in a dive for about 6s (double to single fronts)
Same turn same height on crossfire and I'm level 60-70ft above the ground. Even using harness for entire dive doesn't really help

100 jumps on a canopy is not a lot I get it but I kinda expected more
What do you think about getting into swooping on a crossfire? Is it a right canopy? Or maybe it's not loaded properly? Would for instance crossfire2 109 be a better choice? Or is there anything better up there I could try? I've got 600 jumps in total and I'm only 70kg so I don't mind a small downsize
Just wanting to bounce this off a few people before I purchase something too small like JFX2 99 :p 

Cheers! 

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(edited)

Safires and CF2's are both terrible canopies to learn to swoop on due to their short recovery arcs. 

I don't know your experince beyond it just being 600 jumps so I don't want to go out of a limb and recommend something smaller or fully eliptical, but I will say that a sabre 2 in the same size as your crossfire is going to be better to learn on.

I have seen solid progressions that went from a smaller sabre 2, to a same size katana and then on to a velo.

Have you sought out any actual canopy coaching? A canopy coach would be the best place to get some advice on wings.

Edited by DougH

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Cheers mate!
I thought CF2 is a fully elliptical canopy 

Yeah I've sought out few canopy courses/camps and I've already spoken with few coaches but I just want to get more opinions/recommendations from other more advanced jumpers. It doesn't mean I'll buy it though

I did few jumps on Sabre2 and I found it very similar to Safire2
Katana huh? What about the openings? Heard it's usually pretty hard and the canopy itself is not very predictable. Is that true?  

 

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The Crossy2 has a really short recovery arc, it's horrible for swooping. Get rid of it.

Don't agree that the Saf2 and the Sabre2 are the same, the Sabre2 dives more.

I'm 70kg and I started my 90 at 420ft on the Sabre2 120.

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(edited)
16 hours ago, honest.py said:

Cheers mate!
I thought CF2 is a fully elliptical canopy 

Yeah I've sought out few canopy courses/camps and I've already spoken with few coaches but I just want to get more opinions/recommendations from other more advanced jumpers. It doesn't mean I'll buy it though

I did few jumps on Sabre2 and I found it very similar to Safire2
Katana huh? What about the openings? Heard it's usually pretty hard and the canopy itself is not very predictable. Is that true?  

 

Being fully eliptical matters much less than the recovery arc. The older stilleto is a fully eliptical canopy, but it is horrible for HP landings. You want canopies with steeper recovery arcs that allow for higher longer dives that give you time to make adjustments. You don't get that with a Crossfire2 a Safire or a Pilot.

I asked about coaching because I am suprised that your previous canopy selections haven't been mentioned by those coaches. Were you just getting general canopy coaching, or was it coaching that was focused on HP landings? I get the feeling that you are learning the swooping part as you go, which isn't the safest or most efficient way to go.

My head is sometimes stuck in older gear selections and I forgot to mention the new Fluid Wing canopies. I have been hearing good things about the Gangster as canopy for learning how to swoop, but it isn't first hand experince.

Might be worth tracking down a dealer to see if you can get a demo for all of these potential canopies before you make another purchase.

Edited by DougH

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:20 PM, honest.py said:

Long story short... I've been jumping a crossfire2 119 for past 2 months (100 jumps, 1.5 WL)
Before that I've put another 250 jumps on Safire2 139 (1.25 WL)

Despite different sizes and trims I found Saf2 as a better swooping canopy. I know, neither of these are designed for swooping
Don't get me wrong crossfire2 is sick, love her smooth openings and powerful breaks but from the other hand the recovery arch is surprisingly short + front risers pressure make it very difficult to learn high performance landing

On my good old Saf2 I usually started my 90s at around 300ft and held it in a dive for about 6s (double to single fronts)
Same turn same height on crossfire and I'm level 60-70ft above the ground. Even using harness for entire dive doesn't really help

100 jumps on a canopy is not a lot I get it but I kinda expected more
What do you think about getting into swooping on a crossfire? Is it a right canopy? Or maybe it's not loaded properly? Would for instance crossfire2 109 be a better choice? Or is there anything better up there I could try? I've got 600 jumps in total and I'm only 70kg so I don't mind a small downsize
Just wanting to bounce this off a few people before I purchase something too small like JFX2 99 :p 

Cheers! 

A Sabre2 or Crossfire3 would be a good option. They both should be better for learning to swoop.

Katana may also be a good next canopy, but after short recovery arc of both Safire2 and Crossfire2 it may surprise you, so be careful!

And before all, good coaching is always a good idea!

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(edited)
On 2/12/2020 at 1:40 AM, BigL said:

The Crossy2 has a really short recovery arc, it's horrible for swooping. Get rid of it.

Don't agree that the Saf2 and the Sabre2 are the same, the Sabre2 dives more.

I'm 70kg and I started my 90 at 420ft on the Sabre2 120.

I'm also 70kg and started my 90's at similar height (~420) on a Sabre 2 it dives more than a Saf2 and possibly more than both the Crossfire 2 & 3, the 3 doesn't dive a whole lot more than the 2. The Gangster from Fluid Wings is the one I'd choose (and I did) due to the recovery arc, I prefer it to the JFX (haven't tried the JFX2) but it's still a high perfomance wing and please please check with some smart people whether you're ready for it!

 

Edited by EvilGenius

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4 hours ago, EvilGenius said:

I'm also 70kg and started my 90's at similar height (~420) on a Sabre 2 it dives more than a Saf2 and possibly more than both the Crossfire 2 & 3, the 3 doesn't dive a whole lot more than the 2. The Gangster from Fluid Wings is the one I'd choose (and I did) due to the recovery arc, I prefer it to the JFX (haven't tried the JFX2) but it's still a high perfomance wing and please please check with some smart people whether you're ready for it!

 

Sweet, what height is your 270 on the Gangster, and what size wing?

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 If the flag next to the OP's name is correct might be worth pointing out that there's some new incoming 'canopy rules' arriving into the UK. They are still a work in progress and unclear as to what's going to be, but the french system is being touted as the preferred base to work from.

 With that in mind, it would be good for the OP to think about "future-proofing" his canopy choices. For example, the writing is on the wall for a minimum of 2000 jumps for any crossbraced canopy, so really is no point for him to consider one neither now nor in the near future given his jump numbers. Non-crossbraced high performance wings may be having a closer look as well given the recent fatalities that prompted this review and the adoption of rules were on in Katanas.

 That is besides the wisdom of seeking to downsize or looking at more agressive canopies to fix a perceived problem which is likely more a technique issue that should be resolved with more practice and adequate coaching rather than a canopy choice issue.

  I mean,  6s double to single 90 degree turn in a xf2 @1.5wl in 230ft just doesn't compute and i'd put that to wrong technique hands down as it sounds like you are carving rather than diving. From a safety aspect I'd look at sorting that out as my first port of call, as in you dont want to 'discover' the right technique by chance in a random jump and suddenly have your 250ft dive turn into a 350 footer. But that's a conversation you really should be having with an experienced coach who can watch your landings and assess where you should be going with it

 

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I didn't like my old cf2 for doing 90's as it would pull out of the dive quite abrupt and then lose a lot of energy,  but for everything else it was awesome, sabre 2 was better in my opinion for 90's and katana was even better but im currently jumping a sabre 2 at 1.5 and I find its great. 

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