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baronn

USPA continues to fund ISMHOF

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21 hours ago, baronn said:

I think more folks are becoming aware that the approach that the ISMHOF has taken is failing. Don't have to go into why, that's old news. So let's hear some ideas of how to get the museum done, a method to keep it open without massive contributions and perhaps, a better use for the funds already raised. I'll start:

Lets build it at Skydive Arizona. Larry has the space and can build a custom facility. He also has the hull of the Skyvan GHWB did his solo from. Almost everyone visits the place and it isn't going anywhere. 

I wude like to see some of the funds go toward something that can benefit the membership. I think a small mobile museum with a helicopter that can travel the country in the summer and visit Dropzones. I've posted this before with the idea of a 205 (civilian hughey). Carting that around isnt practical but a smaller bird is. Not gonna get into which 1 but, give feedback if you'd like to have a dedicated helicopter visiting your area once or twice a yr.

The ISMHOF currently is sitting on approx. 5.7 million. More than enuff to cover the costs of the above items. There are now 15 Trustees, Pres. VP and Secretary. Secretary is the only salaried person. Somehow, they are spending over 327,000 dollars a yr supporting this endeavor. That's over 37% of all funds raised. The USPA has been contributing members money to the tune of $25,000 per yr for 2 yrs and has committed to do it for another 4. Many individuals have donated $5000 personally. And what is there to show for it? 48 yrs of false promises and no results. Those funds cude have been used for so many other things. Funding athletes for competitions, better representation for airport access and so much more. This is crazy. I think every USPA member shude be aware of what the ISMHOF is REALLY doing and end this NOW. SDA is hosting the Nationals in 2021. I propose we get serious and get this done before then. Lets hear what you think...

 

i think it's a travesty and the money should be returned to all donors and the board jailed, or at least fined, for incompetence.  that may seem a little drastic, but this is serious.  48 years is a long time to hold onto a pipe dream.

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This is serious. And what is even more disturbing is how our elected members of the BOD continue to let this go on. Jim McCormack was at their meeting last Fri. He talked for 5 min, showed some sites around Orlando and......thats it. Nobody asked any questions. Nobody said why are you spending 37% of all donations and where is it going. Nothing. But, they continue to give away members money to this organization to the tune of 25K a yr. In the meantime, Dillingham field has been notified they are closing, out of the blue in colorado has been kicked out and skydive myrtle beach is still battling to operate. Has Anyone from the USPA helped any of these members? No! They're too busy changing a couple words in the SIM or IRM to be bothered with such stuff. Any BOD member can come and explain what is going on. They won't. Its time we as members get everyone aware of what is happening and take care of this. Tell everyone you know!

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On 9/3/2019 at 3:43 PM, Bigfalls said:

I am in favor of the museum and have donated personally.  When Bill Ottley was alive, I offered to donate land on my Airport for the museum.  One of the large DZ's may possibly be willing to build a hangar at their DZ for use as a museum.  I think the current plans are too grandiose, too expensive to construct and too expensive to maintain.  I like the idea of co-locating with another aviation museum.  As far as other locations are concerned, DeLand Airport would seem logical, large DZ, parachute equipment manufacturers, close to Daytona, not that far from Orlando tourist attractions.  Maybe some skydivers would be willing to volunteer to staff it.

 

I'm Big Falls and I approve this message.

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33 minutes ago, Bigfalls said:

I'm Big Falls and I approve this message.

That is a more realistic approach. A small museum is one thing. A "Hall of Fame" is not. Considering there are no famous skydivers. Even Col. Kittenger is a name most people wouldn't immediately place.

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(edited)
55 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

That is a more realistic approach. A small museum is one thing. A "Hall of Fame" is not. Considering there are no famous skydivers. Even Col. Kittenger is a name most people wouldn't immediately place.

Marketing. Branding. Relationship building. Bush peeing. Or, possibly, showing you are someone to someone you want something from someday. Sometimes what you are paying for is something other what it seems you are paying for. Anyone can look down the street. Looking down the street and around the corner is the trick.

Edited by JoeWeber
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2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

But who is paying for it?

Isn't question #1 who will benefit and how? These big numbers everyone seems twitterpated over are chump change in the real world. They are buying an edifice; a representation of who we are, where we came from and a promise of where we might go. Yes, they are doing a shit show job of it but don't forget from where they who make these crap decisions came.

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1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Isn't question #1 who will benefit and how? These big numbers everyone seems twitterpated over are chump change in the real world. They are buying an edifice; a representation of who we are, where we came from and a promise of where we might go. Yes, they are doing a shit show job of it but don't forget from where they who make these crap decisions came.

I'm not sure if you are trying to inspire or amuse. It's not really working at either tonight. But you are right about one thing. There won't be much of an edifice with the chump change we are talking about.

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5 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I'm not sure if you are trying to inspire or amuse. It's not really working at either tonight. But you are right about one thing. There won't be much of an edifice with the chump change we are talking about.

Both, but I've bombed in better joints than this one. Let me rephrase: it's a good idea being poorly marketed because that would be considered an even worse idea.

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Huh? Not sure what the point is here. Lets try and clarify. The ISMHOF hasnt accomplished anything in 48 yrs except beg for donations, make a bunch of false promises and induct folks into a non existent Hall of Fame. Or shude it be Hall of Shame. They have managed to do all this and somehow spend 327K in 1 yr of said donations doing well, nothing. The amount is much higher over the life of this debacle. The members of the ISMHOF and the USPA BOD continue to support this with "0" oversight using members money. At the same time, ignoring real issues that shude be addressed. Airport access, funding competitions, the list is long, the excuses are many and I feel it needs to change. As long as nobody seems to give a shit about it, it will continue to happen. My lone voice won't change it. If this is important to any member, you need to speak up and see if we can get this done before we are all dead

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(edited)

To be clear, the Museum trustees have a definite timeline to break ground by March, 2021. This was announced July, 2019, on their website.   Yes, it has been a long time coming. The reason is, not enough money raised. Now, there is about $5.5 million raised.  As I write, the Museum officials are looking at about 5 building sites in the Orlando area. This, along with other plans, was presented to the USPA Board last weekend. The USPA does not own or control the operation or plans for the Museum. The Board voted to contribute money toward this project, about $25,000 a year for about 5 years. Many other organizations and individuals have contributed much much more.

These are the facts, not opinion, not conjecture. Baronn and myself view this differently, and are in opposite corners on this issue. He does not like or agree with the USPA Board decision. I stand with the USPA Board, and the Board stands together.  Personally, I believe this is a potentially magnificent project, with far reaching advantages...if it succeeds. He thinks it is a money pit, a boondoggle, and a waste of money.  In a few years, one of us will be right, one will be wrong. Time will tell.    

Again, to be clear, the Museum officials were only given 10 minutes to make their presentation with no questions during the Board meeting, because of our very full schedule. However, their representative stayed all that afternoon, that night, and the next day to answer any and all questions. I talked to him myself for 1/2 hour during breakfast the next morning. They have always been completely transparent and forthcoming in their answers. Nobody is hiding anything. They have answered every question. 
 

I have contributed personally to the Museum. I will continue to support it. The USPA Board has made a promise and commitment, and we will honor that promise.. I keep my word, the USPA will keep its word.  If you don’t want to support this effort, then don’t. If you are so offended that you don’t want a couple of dollars per year of your membership money going to the Museum, send me an email and I will personally refund your portion of your membership dues that has gone toward the Museum.

I made a promise to support USPA, I serve on the Board. USPA has made a promise to support the Museum. The USPA Board will keep its promise.  If the membership of the USPA Southern disagrees with me, they are free to vote me off the USPA Board in the next election.  
 

“You” and I may not agree on this, but this is how I stand.  If anyone wishes to express their view on this forum, feel free. If anyone wishes to contact me personally, my personal email and cell number is in the front of every Parachutist magazine. I answer my email, I answer my cell, I answer text. Ask Baronn, he has called me, texted me, and emailed me several times.

I just wanted to be upfront and forthcoming with everyone, whether they agree or disagree with me. This is my stance on the International Skydiving Museum and Hall of Fame.

Paul Gholson, USPA Board of Directors, Southern Regional Director

.

 

Edited by skypilotA1
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i have one question, just one.  how is it possible that if there is one paid position at 25k a year, to spend over 300k a year?  in my experience, money in the bank usually pays you, not you paying to keep money in the bank.  i do not have experience with large fundraising projects yet, and was just curious.  i got all the numbers from this thread, so they may not be correct.  i am getting ready to start a large fundraising project and need to know any possible issues beforehand if possible. 

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OK. Since yer feeling like you need to be so forthright and transparent, why don't you share what McCormick said in your half hr conversation? Or perhaps tell us why not a single question was asked during his presentation? 5 locations around Orlando? Was there a bldg plan shown? You believed him when he said they are still planning to break ground by March 2021? Clearly nobody has any idea what the permit process is like in a heavily commercialized area like that. 1st step is to actually have a plan. Simple question: were you told they do? And if so, what is it? If yer gonna claim to be transparent and open about this then do it. Words are meaningless without action that backs it. In 48 yrs, that's all we've gotten. Rather than using members funds for helping hard working competitors to attend competitions, helping DZ's stay open and have access to airports (3 that I know of) or any of the other many issues facing us, you choose to ignore those and continue to support this. And seem Proud to do so. Shameful. Keep pounding that "Proud to support the USPA pedestal".  Clearly yer not seeing that I'm not the only 1 voicing their displeasure with these decisions. Saying if you don't like what I do you can vote me out is a cop out. You were voted in to look out for your MEMBERS interests, not your own. I have taken my own time to look this stuff up. I have yet to see a single BOD do the same. Yer rite about 1 thing. 1 of us will be rite about this. So far, that's been me. I wish it wasn't. I am sure many, like me, wish it was open and available for us to all see and be part of. Unless this current path is changed, it will continue to be that way. I wish it wasn't.  And yes, you can refund my $5.83 that you and the rest of those on the BOD are Choosing to spend to support this.

plskypetey@gmail.com is my PP acct

I continue to appreciate your input. You are the ONLY BOD member that has. Thanks

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Let's throw 1 more thing out there. Both you and Mike Mullins have stated that you both are willing to personally pay for any members portion of their dues that you both have committed to this.  You can show all us how much of a wise investment this is by simply paying the entire 150K yourselves. For Mike, that represents about half the rebuild cost on just 1 his planes motors. If you split it, it's only 75K each. A mere pittance!

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31 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You just can't help yourself can you? You just have to insult the BoD and imply that they are cheaters and self servers.

No. I inferred that his personal interest is not why he was voted in. Now, if the majority of those in his area DO support this, then he is. If they don't, he isn't. Since they or any members didn't have a voice in this, we don't know. I and many others don't support it. 

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, baronn said:

No. I inferred that his personal interest is not why he was voted in. Now, if the majority of those in his area DO support this, then he is. If they don't, he isn't. Since they or any members didn't have a voice in this, we don't know. I and many others don't support it. 

i was wondering a similar thought, how do they know what we want to do with our funds?  is there an open process or do we have to come to a meeting?  if that is the case, it seems a bit exclusionary.  i don't recall ever having been given the option in 22 years of choosing anything the bod votes on.  shouldn't there be some sort of ballot or letter of issues circulated so that we can make a choice, rather than reading about it?  if there is one, why have i never received it?  is there a place where we can go look at minutes of meetings and see a list of issues?

Edited by sfzombie13
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To answer Baronn’s questions:  My personal conversation with Museum rep was just reinforcement of the Museum’s previous statements and plans, no super secret plan “Yes, we said we would do this, we are going to do it”  No questions were asked because the Board only gave him 10 minutes to speak, he hung around for 2 days after to answer questions. Yes, 5 (I think) locations in the Orlando area. Yes, there was a building plan shown. Yes, I believed him. Yes, they have a plan. They have expressed this in pretty detailed terms several times. You are correct, their words will need to be transformed into actions. Time will tell.  
 

The USPA does support competition teams through a special trust funded by donations.

The USPA does support local clubs with airport issues, through a special fund and a dedicated employee for government relations. In my personal opinion, this staff member is one of the most valuable assets USPA has.

Yes, I was voted in to represent members interest, not my own. I gain nothing financially being on the Board.  As I have mentioned, being on the Board actually COSTS me money. And I am happy to do it. And I believe I am no different from any other Board member.

To answer sfzombie13:  Funds are spent based on member input and issues as they present themselves. It is an open process. Every topic to be discussed is posted on the USPA website weeks before the meeting, the meetings are open, and the detailed minutes of every Board meeting are available for download on the USPA website. If you want an issue presented, put it on the agenda, we do it every meeting.  The USPA Board operates like a republic. The membership votes us in, and we vote on the issues at hand. If the members don’t like the way we vote, then you can vote us out next election. A member has direct representation through his Regional Director.  Personally, I usually get several texts, emails and calls every week with different members issues or problems. A member also can contact USPA directly, just call them during business hours. Your call will be answered by a human, not an automated menu.

And yes, Baronn has been refunded his $5.83 so he no longer has the burden of supporting the International Skydiving Museum and Hall of Fame.

Paul Gholson, USPA Southern Regional Director 

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Thanks for the update. Cude you disclose the plan for the museum you were shown? Last I heard was the idea of building it with the wind tunnel. Since IFly has stepped out, that leaves limited players. A vertical and horizontal? That really narrows it down. 13 months to buy or lease property and submit bldg plans AND get approval is ambitious. If not completely unrealistic. But, who knows, maybe they can pull a rabbit out of their hat. Be the 1st time in 48 yrs but, its possible. 

These special funds for competition and airport access. Is the USPA using members dues to fund those? Only thing I have ever seen is the ad for donations to them. 

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15 hours ago, skypilotA1 said:

...if it succeeds. 

Hi Paul,

I believe that we each march to our own drummer.  And, I do thank you for your thoughts.

I first joined PCA in the Summer of 1964, and I was a member for 50+ yrs.  I am not a member now & no longer have a dog in this fight.

However, I am of the opinion that this 'so-called' museum is & has been a complete and total waste of the member's money.

One only has to look at the track record of broken promises, wasted money, etc, etc to see this.

Now, back to your regular scheduled programming,

Jerry Baumchen

D-1543

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8 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

i was wondering a similar thought, how do they know what we want to do with our funds?

Because you told them.  (Right?)  And they will listen because you elect them.

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is there an open process or do we have to come to a meeting? 

Pick up the phone.

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i don't recall ever having been given the option in 22 years of choosing anything the bod votes on. 

What did they say when you called them?  When you talked to them at the meeting?

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