Now every one can own a silencer

[RiggerLee 61]

I don't normally post here but I just find this hilarious and wanted to share. Just got an email with the tracking number. My Silenced rifle has shipped. It's on the way. I bought it on line. It will be arriving through the U.S. mail on Monday. No FFL. No back ground check. No tax stamp. No signature required. Totally legal. How could such a wondrous thing occur?

https://silencerco.com/maxim50/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA8rSssvTSA

They went live with it a few days ago. Same day that the Hearing Protection Act, SHARE act passed out of commity to the house. Just as a poke in the democrats eye. Now every one can own a silencer. All fifty states. Some they have to be shipped to an FFL but they are fully California legal. I love there ads there are a couple more videos on you tube.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

RiggerLee

I don't normally post here but I just find this hilarious and wanted to share. Just got an email with the tracking number. My Silenced rifle has shipped. It's on the way. I bought it on line. It will be arriving through the U.S. mail on Monday. No FFL. No back ground check. No tax stamp. No signature required. Totally legal. How could such a wondrous thing occur?

https://silencerco.com/maxim50/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA8rSssvTSA

They went live with it a few days ago. Same day that the Hearing Protection Act, SHARE act passed out of committee to the house. Just as a poke in the democrats eye. Now every one can own a silencer. All fifty states. Some they have to be shipped to an FFL but they are fully California legal. I love there ads there are a couple more videos on you tube.

Lee

Interesting. A silenced muzzleloader.

Clickies fixed.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,396]

I've long considered it nonsensical that I can be arrested if:
a) My car/bike is too loud.
b) My gun is too quiet.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[millertime24 8]

It's often confused me as to why a muffler for a gun was ever so hard to get in the first place.

Muff #5048

[BartsDaddy 4]

Because too many people actually believe silencers work like in the movies. You know screw a silencer on your snub nose .38 revolver and somebody 5 feet away won't hear anything.
Reality is another story.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[ryoder 1,396]

BartsDaddy

Because too many people actually believe silencers work like in the movies. You know screw a silencer on your snub nose .38 revolver and somebody 5 feet away won't hear anything.
Reality is another story.

And that silencer is about the size of a D-cell battery.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BartsDaddy 4]

I had to go and double check before I posted but this is still illegal in California. Federal is ok California stil a no no.
Just call the company to order one in California, "They have all ready felt the legal push backs" is there statement now. They will not sell to California and ones that allredy placed orders are getting refunds.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[RiggerLee 61]

Here is how I heard the story. It was a book on silencer design, there was a history section.

National Fire Arms Act, passed in the 1930's, I think 32, I'd have to check. It was an attempt to control who could own machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shot guns, and suppressors were included. It was done through taxation because it's illegal to ban them. Second amendment and all that. It placed what was a wildly expensive tax on them. $200. At the time I think the Maxim, original maxim, silencer was selling for... $5.00? $200 was like huge money during the depression.

What was behind this? depends on who you ask. It was the Capone gangster era. There were crimes committed with them but for decades any farmer could buy a Thompson to keep in his truck. It takes a lot of muscle to get this big of a law passed. It was backed by the big companies. It was about breaking the unions. Keeping the Thompsons out of the hands of the strikers. Think of all the old pictures of mobs of strikers being stared down by a line of private security men in front of the gate of a company, all armed with Tommy guns. The companies could pay for them and they wanted to keep that power to them selves. They are the ones that pushed it through. The purpose of the NFA was to oppress the workers of the country and keep them in their place.

So how the fuck did suppressors wind up on this list. They weren't even that common. Some people hunted with them. They weren't used in murders. All that movie shit came later. There's a story. It was a favor for some big ranchers that had some pull. Some palms were greased or at least some stakes delivered. So it happened like this. Some one poached some of his... I don't recall if it was cattle or horses. Killed them. Got caught. Turns out he used a suppressor on his hunting rifle. You could get them for your lever action rifles. It was the depression. People were hungry. These big farmers were afraid that these poor vagrants would poach there live stock. Suppressors were added to the NFA list not because of any murder but over a fucking cow, or horse, I don't recall. All the movie shit came later once they were forbidden and exotic.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[RiggerLee 61]

So it took CA MS, and NJ 48 hours to get an injunction against it. Fast work even for the left. I can't wait to see how this plays out in court.

Mine is already in the mail. God bless Texas.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[millertime24 8]

RiggerLee

Here is how I heard the story. It was a book on silencer design, there was a history section.

National Fire Arms Act, passed in the 1930's, I think 32, I'd have to check. It was an attempt to control who could own machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shot guns, and suppressors were included. It was done through taxation because it's illegal to ban them. Second amendment and all that. It placed what was a wildly expensive tax on them. $200. At the time I think the Maxim, original maxim, silencer was selling for... $5.00? $200 was like huge money during the depression.

What was behind this? depends on who you ask. It was the Capone gangster era. There were crimes committed with them but for decades any farmer could buy a Thompson to keep in his truck. It takes a lot of muscle to get this big of a law passed. It was backed by the big companies. It was about breaking the unions. Keeping the Thompsons out of the hands of the strikers. Think of all the old pictures of mobs of strikers being stared down by a line of private security men in front of the gate of a company, all armed with Tommy guns. The companies could pay for them and they wanted to keep that power to them selves. They are the ones that pushed it through. The purpose of the NFA was to oppress the workers of the country and keep them in their place.

So how the fuck did suppressors wind up on this list. They weren't even that common. Some people hunted with them. They weren't used in murders. All that movie shit came later. There's a story. It was a favor for some big ranchers that had some pull. Some palms were greased or at least some stakes delivered. So it happened like this. Some one poached some of his... I don't recall if it was cattle or horses. Killed them. Got caught. Turns out he used a suppressor on his hunting rifle. You could get them for your lever action rifles. It was the depression. People were hungry. These big farmers were afraid that these poor vagrants would poach there live stock. Suppressors were added to the NFA list not because of any murder but over a fucking cow, or horse, I don't recall. All the movie shit came later once they were forbidden and exotic.

Lee

And don't think for one second that the NRA has any aspirations of helping to get the NFA repealed any time soon. Thing of it is (at least as it pertains to machine guns) that you may only purchase one that was manufactured prior to 1968 thereby putting a finite amount of machine guns able to be owned on the market.

What this has done has made machine guns that you may own more of an "investment" (from a couple thousand $$ to well over $100k) as the price will only go up as more and more people decide they want one. Now think about who actually has the money to buy guns like this. That's right, probably the top donators to the NRA. The NRA won't go after the NFA simply because their top contributors would lose their investment value of their firearm.

Muff #5048

[RiggerLee 61]

There is some truth to that. Example, working with a company that builds MP5's, full auto MP5 $2,000 to $3,000 and that's for a stupidly over priced HK gun. One of the guys here has a transferable one, $35,000. So even non historical current manufacture designs were talking 10X+++ of real values. None of these people will let the 1982 law, forget it's name, be over turned. It's not the NFA that makes the guns valuable it's the other law that closed the transferable books to new civilian manufacture. Some of these rich ass holes would lose every thing.

But the NFA it self has no real value. There is no special value to a SBR or SBS or silencer. Hell you can build one your self with a form 1. They have no real intrinsic value, nor do they have any particular resale value. They are just paperwork intensive and the hoops of red tape are really ridicules. And the fucked up thing is there are work arounds for most of them. With out boring you, SBR's are not SBR's if you call them a pistol, even if they have a stock... if that stock is a "pistol brace". It's getting ridicules. Some SBS can be "Any Other Weapons" or you can have a 410 shot gun pistol if the barrel is rifled for say, 45 LC. Or now here in Texas you can own a ShockWave Mossberg shotgun. It really truly is a SBR in every way but name. No special paper work nothing just a normal gun transfer. Suppressors are the only one that there hasn't been a work around for till now. Their actually the most useful. I hope the hearing protection act passes. I was at a range yesterday. I was shooting my first flint lock, whole new experience. Just had ear plugs in. Didn't even notice the guy next to me. He had a can. Then some one else sat down with another AR, no can, and almost blew my hat off when he fired that muzzle break. I'm almost ready to say that they should be mandatory.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[pterodactyl1986 0]

RiggerLee

So it took CA MS, and NJ 48 hours to get an injunction against it. Fast work even for the left. I can't wait to see how this plays out in court.

Mine is already in the mail. God bless Texas.

Lee

Commie Bastards! This state irks my soul.
It does not make any sense why I can only purchase one hand gun a month, but if I want to buy 100 Ar/AK I am free to. Hell half the laws here make no sense

On another note I miss PA, my cousin has a few cans

[Stumpy 256]

For those of you who think a "silencer" will save your hearing, please wear ear protection as well. Just saying.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[millertime24 8]

Stumpy

For those of you who think a "silencer" will save your hearing, please wear ear protection as well. Just saying.

Ever fired a .22 lr pistol with sub-sonic ammo and a suppressor? Ear pro? No thanks. My tv is louder.

Muff #5048

[RiggerLee 61]

That all depends on the cartridge and the nature of your ammunition.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Stumpy 256]

I was going to go into extreme cases like that, but life is too short.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RiggerLee 61]

There are a couple of factors. The pressure of the cartridge. The total volume of the cartridge. The ratio of volume between the case and the barrel. The weight of the bullet and the speed of the powder.

Some examples. Say you have a cylindrical case, pistol case, and a longer barrel, 10+ inches. Lets say 45 ACP. By the time the bullet uncorks the barrel the gas has expanded many fold and had dropped significantly in pressure. If the pressure of the cartridge is low, again lets take 45 ACP say 21,000, then by the time it has expanded the the pressure is relatively low and the suppressor effective.

On the other end of the spectrum. A bottle neck cartridge. Let's take some thing ridicules. A 300 win mag. Big ass case. High pressure, 60,000+. Every thing designed to accelerate the bullet and maintain pressure behind it down the entire length of the barrel. Lot's of gas. A 26 inch barrel is not a long barrel for a 300. It is very hard to contain that big of a pow. They do make suppressors for 300's. They're big. A lot of them reflex and are integral to the barrel. Mostly they help contain flash and cut down on dust. It aint quiet.

Heavy bullets and fast powders follow a different pressure curve. You can load ammunition like that that conforms to the max chamber pressure, it's just a lighter load of faster powder. A load like that drops in pressure faster as the bullet travels down the barrel. The heavier bullet does a better job of containing the pressure and the powder is more fully consumed earlier in the barrel. The pressure will be lower when the barrel uncorks. You can make low signature ammunition that will have less flash even out of a shorter barrel and will be easier to suppress.

The smaller the caliber the more effective baffles tend to be.It's just a smaller hole for gas to escape through and you can generally have a better ratio of bore to suppressor diameter. And the smaller the cartridge the less gas to begin with.

And of course if you want it to be quiet it has to be subsonic. A super sonic crack is a crack. No way around that no mater how big your suppressor is.

So at one end you have a subsonic 22 which really is movie gun quiet. In the middle low volume cases like pistol cases or 300 blk. And at the other end big fucking bottle necks that are punching out supper sonic any way.

But for most guns they can do a very respectable job of cutting down on the noise pollution. I still like to wear ear plugs but it is so much nicer when the guy next to you at the range has a can. If every one used them there would be no, or at least far fewer, noise complaints about gun ranges.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

RiggerLee

There are a couple of factors. The pressure of the cartridge. The total volume of the cartridge. The ratio of volume between the case and the barrel. The weight of the bullet and the speed of the powder...

...So at one end you have a subsonic 22 which really is movie gun quiet. In the middle low volume cases like pistol cases or 300 blk. And at the other end big fucking bottle necks that are punching out supper sonic any way.

But for most guns they can do a very respectable job of cutting down on the noise pollution. I still like to wear ear plugs but it is so much nicer when the guy next to you at the range has a can. If every one used them there would be no, or at least far fewer, noise complaints about gun ranges.

Lee

It figures that one of the smartest guys on the board would explain it well.

The range I'm part of has a variety of folks that have gone through the process to get an NFA legal silencer.

At one end, there's a single shot 22 rifle. If he puts the "CB" rounds through it, the loudest part is the hammer dropping.

At the other end is a "silenced" .308. It it a lot quieter that way, but it's a relative thing. Probably about as quiet as an unsilenced 22 (but the sound is rather different). I wouldn't want to be close to it without ear protection.

And (not terribly surprisingly) the "in between" stuff is, well, in between.

And as for that last part, we had a "Nasty Neighbor" who didn't like us very much. No clue what she was complaining about either. One of her complaints was "why can't you guys use silencers?"

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[MikeJD 0]

RiggerLee

Now every one can own a silencer. All fifty states.
Lee

Quite a large percentage of the 'every one' community doesn't live in any of your fifty states.

Still, I don't need a silencer. I'd have nothing to attach it to.

[Phil1111 913]

RiggerLee

...
Heavy bullets and fast powders follow a different pressure curve. You can load ammunition like that that conforms to the max chamber pressure, it's just a lighter load of faster powder. A load like that drops in pressure faster as the bullet travels down the barrel. The heavier bullet does a better job of containing the pressure and the powder is more fully consumed earlier in the barrel. The pressure will be lower when the barrel uncorks. You can make low signature ammunition that will have less flash even out of a shorter barrel and will be easier to suppress.

The smaller the caliber the more effective baffles tend to be.It's just a smaller hole for gas to escape through and you can generally have a better ratio of bore to suppressor diameter. And the smaller the cartridge the less gas to begin with.

And of course if you want it to be quiet it has to be subsonic. A super sonic crack is a crack. No way around that no mater how big your suppressor is.

Lee

I agree with most of what you said but you are a little off base with these two representations.

- Generally heavier bullets use slower burning powders for the range of loading profiles that optimize performance. Powders that fill the case to capacity and yet are fully consumed by the time the bullet leaves the barrel.Or has traveled the first 6-10" of the barrel. Optimize accuracy and all around performance. A high pressure spike early in the firing of the bullet generally leads to case failures, inaccuracy and less than optimal, consistant, exit velocities.

The 300 Whisper/blackout or whatever you want to call it is the best example.Of subsonic suppressed ammunition. Its small case is typically loaded with heavier bullets(factory loadings) using mid speed powders. This is because most shooters have longer barrels for the total volume of gas released(over 10"). Also, most shooters want the subsonic signature yet decent downrange performance. I know there are 125-150 gr supersonic loads that duplicate the profiles of the 7.62x39 AK-47 loadings.

A heavy bullet doesn't contain the chamber pressures, or the total pressures as the projectile travels down the barrel. The speed of the powder burning profile is generally designed to avoid rapid pressure spikes for a designed loading. A heavy bullet allows optimal velocity, hence energy, optimal ignition of slower powders that may require magnum primers. But mainly, optimal consistent exit velocities for that heavier projectile weight. For a given powder and projectile weight.

As to the reduction of muzzle flash. Generally thats not addressed by increasing bullet weight or by using faster powders. Its addressed by using longer barrels and or a longer barrel and bigger volume suppressor. Or less powder.

Overall your explanation was very good.

[yoink 321]

Seems like you guys would like this video that popped up in my Youtube feed the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pOXunRYJIw

Smarter Every Day - See-through suppressor in slow motion.

[RiggerLee 61]

Conversation is getting interesting.

If you think about it much of what you say agrees with my statements. Lets take blackout as an example. H110 or Lil'gun are actually very fast burning powders for the sectional density of bullets setting on top of the powder. It's basically a cylindrical case, dimintionally close to a 357 mag but with 220gr to 245gr of lead setting on top of it that's a lot of compression. It's a tall column of lead forming that piston. That is actually a very good example of a heavy bullet fast burning powder combination. And it does a very good job of burning up the powder early in the barrel.

Other examples of relatively fast burning powders. Accurate No.2 would be an example. It's a fast burning pistol powder intended for really short barrels like concealed carry pistols. A lot of them are between 2.5 and 3 inches. That's a short barrel, breach face to muzzle, on a simiauto. Slower burning powders just make a lot of flash out of that short of a barrel. So using 9mm as an example. There is load data for No.2 up to 147 grain bullets. If you put that in a longer barrel, like a 10 or 16 inch carbine... The pressure really starts to drop off by the time it uncorks.

Every thing we're talking about here is established load data complying with the published SAAMI chamber pressures. You don't have to get weird. In fact if it's a subsonic load you're often running much lower pressures. There is no reason to ever risk a case failure.

With out question there are barrel lengths that are ballisticly optimal. But in this case you may be looking to optmise for other things. Beyond the point where the powder is consumed the velocity curve does flatten off. The standard deviation in velocity does increase. But does that really matter if your shooting subsonic? When you get beyond 100 yards your really stretching it on a subsonic shot. Not saying you can't do it but the drop starts to increase rapidly. BC doesn't help it's just gravity drop. No way around it. So does a small increase in the SD of your muzzle velocity really matter at that point?

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[ryoder 1,396]

Just posted yesterday: See Through Suppressor in Super Slow Motion (110,000 fps) - Smarter Every Day 177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pOXunRYJIw

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[RiggerLee 61]

False alarm. No rifle. The e-mail I received said that my order was shipped. Yesterday the loading tube showed up in the mail but no sign of the rifle. USPS tracking simply said that the package was delivered. After running around in circles with the USPS for 24 hours thinking that a 50 cal suppressed rifle was floating in the wind I get a response from silencer co. No shipment. The rifle was never sent just the tube. It's still on back order. So it may be a unicorn after all. I guess ordering two hours after the ad went up was too slow. Must have sold out in the first five min. Makes me wonder if any exist beyond the prototype that the photographed for their add.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

MikeJD

***Now every one can own a silencer. All fifty states.
Lee

Quite a large percentage of the 'every one' community doesn't live in any of your fifty states.

Still, I don't need a silencer. I'd have nothing to attach it to.

The funniest part of that comment is that silencers are far more available in Europe than the US.

Not necessarily the UK, but other European countries.

In fact, some areas require one for hunting.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo