No need for the EPA

[brenthutch 383]

Apparently a lot of reality sounds abnormal to you. All of my "wild claims" can be readily confirmed with a quick google search. The problem with you and yours is that when you hear of a weather event that is "the worst in a hundred years!!" you take it as proof of AGW, while I look at the same event and realize that is was just as bad or worse a hundred years ago.

[billvon 2,400]

>FACT, climate related deaths are a tiny fraction of what they were one hundred years ago.

Love it.

Brenthutch: "There is ZERO evidence that the slight warming is anything other than beneficial."

Billvon: (deaths due to heat)

Brenthutch: "The bad effects are small."

[brenthutch 383]

Juxtaposed to the deaths from cold? Net net....yawn.

Oh oh, now I get it. The deaths from cold are also a result of global warming. Wow you guys are very clever!

[jakee 1,255]

brenthutch

All of my "wild claims" can be readily confirmed with a quick google search.

Oh really? It's an easily confirmable fact that many times more people died from climate related effects 100 years ago than now?

Go on then.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 383]

jakee

***All of my "wild claims" can be readily confirmed with a quick google search.

Oh really? It's an easily confirmable fact that many times more people died from climate related effects 100 years ago than now?

Go on then.

Worst flood 1931 4-5 million deaths
Worst drought 1907 24+ million deaths
Worst hurricane/cyclone 1737 300,000 deaths

Too easy.

[jakee 1,255]

brenthutch

******All of my "wild claims" can be readily confirmed with a quick google search.

Oh really? It's an easily confirmable fact that many times more people died from climate related effects 100 years ago than now?

Go on then.

Worst flood 1931 4-5 million deaths
Worst drought 1907 24+ million deaths
Worst hurricane/cyclone 1737 300,000 deaths

Too easy.

Yes, it is really easy to not answer the question. But how easy is it to answer the question? I'm waiting

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 383]

You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/

[SkyDekker 1,123]

brenthutch

You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/

The data does show a massive increase in reported natural disasters and a massive increase in number of people affected.

Wasn't your argument that there were less of them?

Floods certainly have killed significantly less people. But that doesn't necessarily mean a reduction in severity or frequency of floods. It could very well mean we have gotten much better in building damn and dikes and have gotten much better at predicting and responding.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

SkyDekker

***You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/

The data does show a massive increase in reported natural disasters and a massive increase in number of people affected.

Wasn't your argument that there were less of them?

Floods certainly have killed significantly less people. But that doesn't necessarily mean a reduction in severity or frequency of floods. It could very well mean we have gotten much better in building damn and dikes and have gotten much better at predicting and responding.

Same goes for hurricanes/cyclones. Prediction, monitoring, warning, evacuation, all that.
The Galveston hurricane in 1900 killed somewhere between 6k and 12k. But there was no warning. None at all. By the time anyone realized that there was a serious storm coming, they were cut off.

Even tornadoes are "less deadly" today, because the warning time has increased. We just had "tornado awareness week" here in WI, and one of the "fun facts" tossed around is that average warning time has more than doubled in the past 20 years or so.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[brenthutch 383]

SkyDekker

***You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/[/quote

Floods certainly have killed significantly less people. But that doesn't necessarily mean a reduction in severity or frequency of floods. It could very well mean we have gotten much better in building damn and dikes and have gotten much better at predicting and responding.

So now you agree with me when I said, "modernity, powered but fossil fuels, has largely insulation Man from the ravages of Mother Nature."???

It was only a few posts ago that you took the opposite position.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

So now you agree with me when I said, "modernity, powered but fossil fuels, has largely insulation Man from the ravages of Mother Nature."???

Modernity has certainly increased the lifespan of people. Scientists have done a great job protecting people.

Those same scientists you think are now full of shit.....

[rehmwa 2]

wolfriverjoe

WI, and one of the "fun facts" tossed around is that average warning time has more than doubled in the past 20 years or so.

well, that sucks.

instead of 10 minutes after touchdown it's now 20 minutes after touchdown

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[brenthutch 383]

I agree with these scientists.

David Bellamy, botanist.[18][19][20][21]
Lennart Bengtsson, meteorologist, Reading University.[22][23]
Piers Corbyn, owner of the business WeatherAction which makes weather forecasts.[24][25]
Judith Curry, Professor and former chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.[26][27][28][29]
Freeman Dyson, professor emeritus of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society.[30][31]
Ivar Giaever, Norwegian–American physicist and Nobel laureate in physics (1973).[32]
Steven E. Koonin, theoretical physicist and director of the Center for Urban Science and Progress at New York University.[33][34]
Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan emeritus professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences.[35][36][37][38]
Craig Loehle, ecologist and chief scientist at the National Council for Air and Stream Improvement.[39][40][41][42][43][44][45]
Ross McKitrick, Professor of Economics and CBE Chair in Sustainable Commerce, University of Guelph.[46][47]
Patrick Moore, former president of Greenpeace Canada.[48][49][50]
Nils-Axel Mörner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics Department at Stockholm University, former chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003).[51][52]
Garth Paltridge, retired chief research scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre, visiting fellow Australian National University.[53][54]
Roger A. Pielke, Jr., professor of environmental studies at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder.[55][56]
Tom Quirk, corporate director of biotech companies and former board member of the Institute of Public Affairs, an Australian conservative think-tank.[57]
Denis Rancourt, former professor of physics at University of Ottawa, research scientist in condensed matter physics, and in environmental and soil science.[58][59][60][61]
Harrison Schmitt, geologist, Apollo 17 Astronaut, former U.S. Senator.[62]
Peter Stilbs, professor of physical chemistry at Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm.[63][64]
Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London.[65][66]
Hendrik Tennekes, retired director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute.[67][68]
Anastasios Tsonis, distinguished professor of atmospheric science at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.[69][70]
Fritz Vahrenholt, German politician and energy executive with a doctorate in chemistry.[71][72]
Scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes


Graph showing the ability with which a global climate model is able to reconstruct the historical temperature record, and the degree to which those temperature changes can be decomposed into various forcing factors. It shows the effects of five forcing factors: greenhouse gases, man-made sulfate emissions, solar variability, ozone changes, and volcanic emissions.[73]
These scientists have said that the observed warming is more likely to be attributable to natural causes than to human activities. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

Khabibullo Abdusamatov, astrophysicist at Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences[74][75]
Sallie Baliunas, retired astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[76][77][78]
Timothy Ball, historical climatologist, and retired professor of geography at the University of Winnipeg[79][80][81]
Ian Clark, hydrogeologist, professor, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[82][83]
Chris de Freitas, associate professor, School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science, University of Auckland[84][85]
David Douglass, solid-state physicist, professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Rochester[86][87]
Don Easterbrook, emeritus professor of geology, Western Washington University[88][89]
William Happer, physicist specializing in optics and spectroscopy; emeritus professor, Princeton University[90][91]
Ole Humlum, professor of geology at the University of Oslo[92][93]
Wibjörn Karlén, professor emeritus of geography and geology at the University of Stockholm.[94][95]
William Kininmonth, meteorologist, former Australian delegate to World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology[96][97]
David Legates, associate professor of geography and director of the Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware[98][99]
Anthony Lupo, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Missouri[100][101]
Tad Murty, oceanographer; adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[102][103]
Tim Patterson, paleoclimatologist and professor of geology at Carleton University in Canada.[104][105]
Ian Plimer, professor emeritus of mining geology, the University of Adelaide.[106][107]
Arthur B. Robinson, American politician, biochemist and former faculty member at the University of California, San Diego[108][109]
Murry Salby, atmospheric scientist, former professor at Macquarie University and University of Colorado[110][111]
Nicola Scafetta, research scientist in the physics department at Duke University[112][113][114]
Tom Segalstad, geologist; associate professor at University of Oslo[115][116]
Nir Shaviv, professor of physics focusing on astrophysics and climate science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem[117][118]
Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia[119][120][121][122]
Willie Soon, astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[123][124]
Roy Spencer, meteorologist; principal research scientist, University of Alabama in Huntsville[125][126]
Henrik Svensmark, physicist, Danish National Space Center[127][128]
George H. Taylor, retired director of the Oregon Climate Service at Oregon State University[129][130]
Jan Veizer, environmental geochemist, professor emeritus from University of Ottawa[131][132]
Scientists arguing that the cause of global warming is unknown

These scientists have said that no principal cause can be ascribed to the observed rising temperatures, whether man-made or natural.

Syun-Ichi Akasofu, retired professor of geophysics and founding director of the International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska Fairbanks.[133][134]
Claude Allègre, French politician; geochemist, emeritus professor at Institute of Geophysics (Paris).[135][136]
Robert Balling, a professor of geography at Arizona State University.[137][138]
Pål Brekke, solar astrophycisist, senior advisor Norwegian Space Centre.[139][140]
John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, contributor to several IPCC reports.[141][142][143]
Petr Chylek, space and remote sensing sciences researcher, Los Alamos National Laboratory.[144][145]
David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma.[146][147]
Stanley B. Goldenberg a meteorologist with NOAA/AOML's Hurricane Research Division [148] [149]
Vincent R. Gray, New Zealand physical chemist with expertise in coal ashes[150][151]
Keith E. Idso, botanist, former adjunct professor of biology at Maricopa County Community College District and the vice president of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change[152][153]
Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists.[154][155]
Kary Mullis, 1993 Nobel Laureate in Chemistry.[156]
Scientists arguing that global warming will have few negative consequences

These scientists have said that projected rising temperatures will be of little impact or a net positive for society or the environment.

Indur M. Goklany, science and technology policy analyst for the United States Department of the Interior[157][158][159]
Craig D. Idso, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change [160][161]
Sherwood B. Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory, and adjunct professor, Arizona State University[162][163]
Patrick Michaels, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and retired research professor of environmental science at the University of Virginia[164][165]

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Another home-run, make sure the general public doesn't have easy access to information anymore:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/donald-trump-epa-website-turn-off-environmental-protection-agency-government-administration-a7698736.html

[billvon 2,400]

>Another home-run, make sure the general public doesn't have easy access to
>information anymore:

The less informed the voter, the more likely he is to vote for Trump. Sounds like a win for him.

[jakee 1,255]

brenthutch

You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/

I was unaware that volcanoes, epidemics and earthquakes were caused by climate, or that mass catastrophes were the only way that climate killed people.

Should I bother asking you a third time if you can support your claim or should we just assume that you can't already?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,123]

brenthutch

What "other stuff" would you be referring to? I already addressed hurricanes, floods, droughts, disease, tornadoes, wildfires, heatwaves and cold spells. Nothing that is happening today is outside of historical norms.

Buddy, did you look at the graph you yourself supplied? Does the number of incidents look within normal historical norms?

I have attached it for you separately, just in case you missed it the first time around....

[brenthutch 383]

The blue and black lines are a function of population growth and better reporting. What you need to be looking at is the number of deaths! Another poster said,

"I would be very surprised if there weren't many more climate related deaths now, if only because there are vastly more people living in places where climate can cause problems."

As you can clearly see, he was wrong.

[brenthutch 383]

jakee

***You really are a glutton for punishment.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-catastrophes/

I was unaware that volcanoes, epidemics and earthquakes were caused by climate, or that mass catastrophes were the only way that climate killed people.

Should I bother asking you a third time if you can support your claim or should we just assume that you can't already?

[/url]http://www.newsweek.com/nepal-earthquake-could-have-been-manmade-disaster-climate-change-brings-326017[url]

http://www.livescience.com/25936-climate-change-causes-volcanism.html

https://www.seeker.com/could-climate-change-cause-deadly-epidemics-1769022653.html

Climate change can do it all apparently

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Another home-run, make sure the general public doesn't have easy access to
>information anymore:

The less informed the voter, the more likely he is to vote for Trump. Sounds like a win for him.

MEH. Hillary tried it. How did it work out for her?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,123]

brenthutch

The blue and black lines are a function of population growth and better reporting. What you need to be looking at is the number of deaths!

Why only look at that?

The argument was that more severe weather events would take place with a warming climate right?

Are you measuring severity only by number of deaths? And without accounting for reductions due to modernization?

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Are you measuring severity only by number of deaths?

Yes, what is important? Dollar costs, or deaths? You frequently post about the cost of renewable energy. But it has the potential to save lives. Especially compared to "unclean" coal.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

You frequently post about the cost of renewable energy.

No, I don't.

Quote

Yes, what is important? Dollar costs, or deaths?

Both, some of the most severe hurricanes had a relatively low death toll, but a very high dollar value in damage. Hard to not list that as a severe event.

[tkhayes 126]

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-49520-0_17

300M-600M people are currently at risk due to drought, mostly in Africa, mostly due to climate change, which is also one of the drivers of the wars and conflicts there, exacerbating the problem.

[billvon 2,400]

>How did it work out for her?

Poorly. She didn't target the undereducated.