Abortion.

[Royreader8812 0]

Go.

[quade 3]

Your polling options do not cover a wide enough range of views, nor does it cover the differences between people who may or may not be personally impacted by the decision.

Your poll is far too simplistic.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Royreader8812 0]

There is an other choice. And a forum to explain.

My interest is in late term. I have always been pro choice. But knew there was a cutoff date for many.

When I heard of people willingly aborting fetuses in the third trimester, I was appalled.

Then I read debates and it seems to be all or nothing. But seems the middle ground is more accepted that the debates seem to indicate. Which is refreshing.

[Stumpy 256]

Royreader8812

Then I read debates and it seems to be all or nothing. But seems the middle ground is more accepted that the debates seem to indicate. Which is refreshing.

I think you are right. Unfortunately, I fear it is not the middle ground people that will be trying to pass legislation on this. As already demonstrated, its going to be a bunch of ultraconservative, ignorant of science, old white men.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Bob_Church 7]

Sorry, I've misplaced my 11 foot pole. In my late 20s I tried to decide which way I'd go, unwanted child or trying to talk someone into getting an abortion. I had vasectomy which I decided was enough to let me opt out.

[wmw999 2,147]

Second trimester isn't necessarily late term. If a woman does t have a regular period, or if they're widely spaced, it can very easily take that long for her to be sure. Then she has to think about it, discuss it with the father probably, and find a place that performs abortion (not easy in a lot of states), take time off work, and get there -- with the money.

You might say this is ample reason for all women to remain celibate. Well, then who would all the randy guys have sex with? Birth control fails; it's happened to me.

Very few things in life are as easy as people who don't have to do them thinks they are...

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,433]

I am anti-abortion. However, I do not feel I have the right to impose my will on everyone else when it comes to who gets an abortion. In the end, it is up to the woman and her doctor.

[Royreader8812 0]

I disagree when it comes to late term, I see the statistics of this poll show that even in this small demographic. Some people think it is perfectly acceptable at any time of the pregnancy.

It is obviously a heavily debated subject and therefore subjective...

But I believe people that are OK with late term.abortion and believe the unborn child is not worth a dime are deplorable.

My body my choice is acceptable to a point, but when there is a viable human being that could sustain life without the mother, this become two bodies.

I have heard that purposefully killing a pregnant woman is classed as double homicide. I wonder if there is a distinction writhin that particular law/decision, as to how far along the 'mother' is to define the loss of 2 lives?

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

Very few things in life are as easy as people who don't have to do them thinks they are...

Well I can say that I have been in the position of deciding to abort a child, and decided mutually with my girlfriend at the time. No regrets, done at 8 weeks.

I am also a father.

I also have a couple of family members that were born before they even got to the third trimester.

There are always exceptions to a rule and law, but there are clearly people that believe a woman has a choice to abort a child at 30+ weeks because they decide they can't be bothered anymore.

This makes me feel sick in the stomach.

[mistercwood 287]

Royreader8812

There are always exceptions to a rule and law, but there are clearly people that believe a woman has a choice to abort a child at 30+ weeks because they decide they can't be bothered anymore.

This makes me feel sick in the stomach.

I would love to see examples of women who got that far in a pregnancy and terminated solely on a whim.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[Royreader8812 0]

Have you tried looking? I listened to a young woman talking that was born as a result of a failed saline injection abortion.

She was adopted out anyway.

[tkhayes 140]

late term abortions are so rare, they are hardly worth talking about. Just like we do not pass draconian laws to stop doctors from doing dental procedures when sure..once in awhile, someone dies due to s dental procedure, or anesthesia, or whatever simple thing went wrong.

So making some sort of assumption that just because we legalized abortion at ANY stage of the pregnancy that women suddenly are going to be running into clinics AFTER waiting 8 1/2 months just so they can get an abortion (and stick it in your face) is pretty obtuse not to mention disingenuous.

They are typically due to some major issue with the pregnancy, the woman's health and the risks involved with prioritizing one life over another.

I would love to see the stat that says there is a problem with late term abortions due to expectant mothers deciding they do not want a baby after 8 months or so. I bet it is unmeasurable.

So ultimately, regardless of the time, this is a decision for the woman to make. And she would also have to find a willing doctor and/or clinic. Not likely going to happen either when she is within 2 months of giving birth to an otherwise healthy baby.

Ultimately, the woman makes the final decision, it is her choice and yes, I am Ok with that, regardless of ANY OTHER factor involved in the decision.

One article shows the stats, and states 1.3% after 21 weeks
http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/21/late-term-abortions-in-america-2016

Second article uses exactly the same statistics but headlines it with "...happens more that you think"
http://liveactionnews.org/there-is-no-federal-law-protecting-the-preborn-from-abortion-at-any-time/

It's all spin. And like I said, i do not actually care. It is the woman's decision and 30,000-40,000 children die from starvation in the world every single day, so we do not actually give much of a fuck about human life as we like to pretend we do. There are things we each care about and there are things we each do not care about.

I care about the woman's rights over her body more than anything other argument in this arena.

[Royreader8812 0]

That depends on the definition of late term. I would say anything after 20 weeks is late term, because people survive out of the womb after this time.

Just do a Google video search of 'abortion survivor's'. It is gut wrenching stuff,I don't see too many deformed ones either. Oh they are there, but a minority.

These are just the survivors and there are many of them. It happens often enough.


Ethics are very much tested in this subject, I would say people at both ends of the spectrum are the worst and selfishly tend to care only about their own views, while those willing to meet in the middle are usually the most empathetic.

This is my view and like I said before, it is subjective.

[wmw999 2,147]

One of the main reasons that a pregnant homocide victim is classified as a double murder in some states is the legislative efforts of anti-abortion activists. It was discussed in the press in the 1970's during the first decade after Roe v Wade.
The overwhelming majority of late-term abortions are done for medical reasons; to me, a non-viable fetus with a problem like anancephaly is a perfectly valid reason. Down's syndrome isn't, to me. Of course, all my reproduction is in the past.

Some people are appalling or grossly immature; whether they think an 8 1/2 month old fetus as abortable, or that it's ok to use guns to settle arguments, or that their wives or daughters don't deserve the same respect and opportunity that husbands or some deserve, or that all men are pigs, or that alcohol is for ingesting until unconsciousness. They should not be taken as the norm or used as the natural extensions; instead they'd be more easily considered the aberrant edge.

Kind of like the Westboro Baptist Church is the aberrant outer edge of Christianity, and Isis is the aberrant outer edge of Islam.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

The overwhelming majority of late-term abortions are done for medical reasons; to me, a non-viable fetus with a problem like anancephaly is a perfectly valid reason. Down's syndrome isn't, to me. Of course, all my reproduction is in the past.

I agree with much of what you are saying. And my sister in law got preeclampsia at 6 months, baby was born, healthy kid now.

The discussion often turns to legitimate reasons to end the pregnancy, but the fact still remains that people still abort fetuses that are perfectly healthy and already viable human beings, because they can't be bothered raising them.

There are very few countries that set term limits on abortions, but don't allow them to save the life of the mother in an emergency.

This is not the crux of the conversation either.

There are in fact an alarming number of people aborting viable, healthy human beings.

You can meet a bunch of them here

https://www.google.com/search?q=abortion+survivors&gl=us&hl=en&pws=0&prmd=vin&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6tb3wgPnRAhWrCcAKHXueDvsQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=524

These are the people I wish to discuss. I am not anti abortion, but I.do think that these type of people need some protection.

[Stumpy 256]

Royreader8812

There are in fact an alarming number of people aborting viable, healthy human beings.

See - you keep saying this, but it's just an emotive "truthy" statement, used as a strawman to go after the whole shooting match. As a previous poster said, the actual numbers are vanishingly small.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kallend 1,647]

None of my business what a woman chooses to do with her own body.

And certainly none of any politician's or priest's business.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Royreader8812 0]

Agreed, but at what point does that human growing inside her become valuable enough that she cannot decide to what she likes with his or her body. Legally or morally.

Her body and another body inside her body, as in two bodies.

That is the issue here

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

As a previous poster said, the actual numbers are vanishingly small.

Which are words, I have examples of actual people that survived the method that was used to try to kill them.

Or because these people were still attached by the umbilical cord, do you suggest nothing is being killed?

[wmw999 2,147]

I'm sure they exist. As do people who think everyone, no matter how irresponsible, should own a gun. As do people who think it's ok to feed their kids mostly jello and soda, or not to teach them about sex because that way they won't ever get pregnant.

But if you spend all the time dealing with the outside edges, you lose sight of the overall picture and what's really important. For every person who thinks that it's an abortion until the infant walks out of the mother's womb on its own two feet , there are a hundred who are unaware that most eggs don't implant, but one that's maybe prevented from implanting (morning after pill) is evil.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,433]

>but there are clearly people that believe a woman has a choice to abort a child at
>30+ weeks because they decide they can't be bothered anymore.

I don't. Nor have I ever met anyone like that. For everyone I know who has had an abortion, the choice has been a difficult one; never met anyone who did it on a whim, or because they "couldn't be bothered anymore." This is one of those strawmen that make it difficult to to discuss this (or any) issue rationally.

>This makes me feel sick in the stomach.

And there are people out there who think they know better than the woman and her doctor what to do with that woman's body. That's worse.

[jakee 1,259]

Royreader8812

Quote

As a previous poster said, the actual numbers are vanishingly small.

Which are words, I have examples of actual people that survived the method that was used to try to kill them.

Or because these people were still attached by the umbilical cord, do you suggest nothing is being killed?

Focus, Roy. Focus! You were talking about numbers. You said 'an alarming number of people'. Now, if it's alarming to you that even one person does it, then you could argue that you were being technically correct, but you know it would be disingenuous at best.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royreader8812 0]

To be quite fair, I had heard the hoo ha over the abortion debate for ages, and thought the pro life argument was stupid.

I had already been through that decision with a girlfriend, with little regret. I can't say no regret... but we felt comfortable with our decision. Our relationship was not really something either of us saw lasting to marriage, but we enjoyed each other's company, If you know what I am saying .

This viewpoint was based on an understanding that the reason we were allowed to carry out the termination, was that it was well before the 20'week cutoff, it was a mutual agreement and the pregnancy posed a risk to the mental health of the mother.

That was a requirement, where that rule about mental health is quite subjective, and they are relatively lenient with it. It does meant.it is not actually the woman's choice to end the life, it is her choice to seek approval. She can't go.and just say she can't be bothered with it and get an abortion. That, I believe is fair. After 20 weeks the only way that baby is dying by medical.procedure, would be to save the life of the mother.

This whole my body my choice up until the day of birth, is completely foreign to my knowledge until recently. And in contrast with my ethics. So.yes, there is an alarming number of these going on, in my opinion.

The videos I linked show that there are plenty of healthy people surviving this procedure, so that says there are ample being killed by it when.they were viable human beings. Surely killing a fetus is not actually that difficult to do.

It is clear that many of these go unreported, because of fear of backlash. So who knows really. I.just find it hard to.understand how anyone could have so little empathy or respect or a life that is inside them and is capable of thoughts, feeling, pain and emotion.

So as far as stats go, like rape or murder... one is more than enough Nd there are plenty.

Each to their own.

[billvon 2,433]

Quote

So who knows really. I.just find it hard to.understand how anyone could have so little empathy or respect or a life that is inside them and is capable of thoughts, feeling, pain and emotion.

Just as many people find it hard to understand how you (and your girlfriend) could decide to kill a viable human being that will be capable of thoughts, feeling, pain and emotion, just because you decided that you couldn't be bothered anymore.

Fortunately, they do not have to understand it; the only really important opinions were your girlfriend's and her doctor's, who (with your support, which is important) decided to get an abortion.

[Royreader8812 0]

Nice try, an 8 week old embryo at 1-2 cm is not developed enough to have thoughts. Like the little swimmers in your nut sack that leave silver stains on your undies.

Once they become a fetus a little further on, it still is not a viable human being. No amount of nurture would save it, If it was separated from its mother.