CNN- for Clinton?

[gowlerk 1,915]

mirage62

Yeah it is Mark....

For example interest deduction on a house loan..... that sure doesn't seem fair to people that don't have a house.

A good example of a historical accident that is politically nearly impossible to change now. Not only is it an unfair subsidy to home owners, it artificially increases the price of homes making it harder to buy one. Ironic since the original idea was to help make them more affordable.

Any economist will tell you it is a bad policy.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wmw999 2,127]

After awhile, what you automatically get (whether it's TANF, social security, government student loans, paved roads, police protection, etc) becomes part of the background. It can't delight you any more, and for many, it doesn't really satisfy you, either (because you believe in "stretch" goals for the people who serve you ). It only has the capacity to dissatisfy you if it's not there when and how you expect.

Works for just about everything. How many of us want to go back to bias-ply tires with inner tubes in them, needing repair far more often? Or black-and-white TV with two channels?

The only real way around it is to change things around periodically; then everyone is dissatisfied, and they feel like everyone is in the same boat. Of course, the super-rich aren't in the same boat regardless, and that is part of the dissatisfaction. It used to be closer, from the depression on. The Gilded age was pretty divided, but that was a hundred years ago now.

So yes, I think it's time for change. Almost any change, to disrupt entrenched systems and power that seem mainly to be serving the employees rather than the customers. Like our two-party political system, financial system, and much of the corporate stockholder-focused system.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 622]

Fully agreed, but we shouldn't start with attacking the minute amount of monies spent on those who need it the most.

A single wasteful program from the military budget slice of pie could easily pay for those programs a number of times over. Pick one.

[rehmwa 2]

gowlerk

A good example of a historical accident that is politically nearly impossible to change now. Not only is it an unfair subsidy to home owners, it artificially increases the price of homes making it harder to buy one.

ABSOLUTELY - amazing how these programs just about 100% screw things up more and more. thankfully, we get to pick from two different political philosophies that not only butt into our private lives, but want to add MORE and MORE of these kinds of things.

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Ironic since the original idea was to help make them more affordable.

That's cute. The original idea was pander for votes. The 'sales job' was a lie that said it would make homes (school/food/medical costs/etc/etc/adnauseum) more affordable. Yeah - adding more money to anything makes it cheaper.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mirage62 0]

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Fully agreed, but we shouldn't start with attacking the minute amount of monies spent on those who need it the most.

See Mark that's the problem. I bet you and I could agree on a lot of things that could be cut. I know you to be a reasonable fellow......

I don't have a mortgage now so I'm all in favor of getting rid of the mortgage deduction. Kids are grown so let's get rid of that deduction. I don't believe that we need any new aircraft carriers - so cancel that.

Here's a great one. In WWII the government started a program to help wounded vets (head injuries) to get educated. Fast forward to 2012....my daughter who had a minor learning disability (she will graduate in Dec with a 3.9 gpa) received a complete year tuition paid for by the government. Think about it! You basically had to be shot in the head to get the help...in 1944....to a minor learning issue in 2012. It ONLY ended because they started means testing the program!!

I'm all for helping people....certainly the people of need but the standard on need - needs to be looked at.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,406]

>Some form of a higher minimum wage may be the answer.

How about shorter work weeks? The shorter the work week in a given industry, the more people are employed. (And the more time they have for school/family/other work.)

[mirage62 0]

Realizing that mine is a small company (30) but last year we added free dental to the company plan....$250 month for perfect attendance (monthly)....and everyone was happy.

But when I announced that we would close every Friday at 4:30 (hour earlier) and everyone still got paid the same.....everyone went WILD.

Paid time off....really motivates people.....now if I could just find a way to stay profitable and just MAIL a check to everyone's house without them working I would be real popular

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[gowlerk 1,915]

billvon

>Some form of a higher minimum wage may be the answer.

How about shorter work weeks? The shorter the work week in a given industry, the more people are employed. (And the more time they have for school/family/other work.)

That would still require higher pay per hour. And still need a mandate of some kind. But it could be part of a solution.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,257]

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But when I announced that we would close every Friday at 4:30 (hour earlier) and everyone still got paid the same.....everyone went WILD.

Paid time off....really motivates people.....now if I could just find a way to stay profitable and just MAIL a check to everyone's house without them working I would be real popular

That's not paid time off. It's higher pay and a better work / life balance.

Equating it with welfare is disingenuous bullshit.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mirage62 0]

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Equating it with welfare is disingenuous bullshit

What the hell crawl up your butt??

I was simply pointing out that paid time off is a great motivator. Go have a drink/jump or do both but chill.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[jakee 1,257]

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I was simply pointing out that paid time off is a great motivator.

No you weren't. A) Because it's not paid time off. B) Because you then went on to talk about what would happen if you gave them money for doing nothing. Gee, does that sound like welfare? Yeah it kinda does. I wonder how come you didn't notice that

BTW, if you mailed all your employees their paycheck for doing nothing at all do you think they'd all sit around at home all day or do you think they'd go out, get a second job and be twice as well off?

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What the hell crawl up your butt?? Go have a drink/jump or do both but chill.

Ok Mr Angry, whatever you say

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

gowlerk

***Yeah it is Mark....

For example interest deduction on a house loan..... that sure doesn't seem fair to people that don't have a house.

A good example of a historical accident that is politically nearly impossible to change now. Not only is it an unfair subsidy to home owners, it artificially increases the price of homes making it harder to buy one. Ironic since the original idea was to help make them more affordable.

Any economist will tell you it is a bad policy.

It's bad policy that fixes for other bad policy - graduated tax brackets that treat income in California the same as it does in Arkansas. Most MI deductions are taken in high cost of living states like CA and NY, two states that pay far more to the feds than they get back, because the cost of living is higher there, and thus so are salaries and taxes.

And...it used to be that all interest was deductible. That was chipped away at to where only the mortgage one remains.

It's not inherently unfair to renters - no more than them not having to pay or deduct property taxes. The cost of the housing is reflected in the rent (with many distortions due to demand v. supply and other external factors like rent control).

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>Some form of a higher minimum wage may be the answer.

How about shorter work weeks? The shorter the work week in a given industry, the more people are employed. (And the more time they have for school/family/other work.)

so how has that been working out for France?

As an exempt employee in an industry that generally gives you a choice of 110% or 0% work, I'm leery of anything of these work less for less money offerings. Sounds like less money for the same work. (watching Amazon's 30 hour pilot program with interest and distrust).

[mirage62 0]

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No you weren't. A) Because it's not paid time off.

Perhaps I wasn't clear? The regular work day at my office was 8:30 - 5:30. The new policy I spoke of allowed everyone to leave at 4:30 on Friday - but there pay didn't go down. If they were hourly I paid them the same 40 rate. How can that not be "paid time off"?

I'm guessing the "everyone got paid the same" wasn't enough detail for you.

Not that it matters but my younger employee's would probably go out and find another job....and my older ones would enjoy life - I'd bet. My average tenure at my company is over 14 years so people tend to come and stay.

I'm not angry I just don't like people to accuse me of "disingenuous bullshit" because they have a reading and or comprehension problem

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,406]

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As an exempt employee in an industry that generally gives you a choice of 110% or 0% work, I'm leery of anything of these work less for less money offerings. Sounds like less money for the same work. (watching Amazon's 30 hour pilot program with interest and distrust).

There's no free lunch.

If you want to keep the same employment numbers while labor demand declines, and you want to keep labor costs the same, you have to decrease work hours - which means decreased overall pay to the individual employee. (Since they get more time off they could work more at a second job, but not everyone will be able to do that.)

If you want to keep the same employment numbers while labor demand declines, and you are OK with increasing labor costs, you can decrease work hours while keeping pay per week the same. That way everyone makes the same and they have more opportunities due to more time off. But then your industry as a whole sees its competitiveness decline, because Japanese companies can get more labor for the same money.

If you don't care about unemployment, then you keep the same pay and same hours as demand for labor declines. Great for the people working, sucks for the people who are laid off. And once again your industry suffers because there are fewer working consumers to buy your widgets.

[jakee 1,257]

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Perhaps I wasn't clear? The regular work day at my office was 8:30 - 5:30. The new policy I spoke of allowed everyone to leave at 4:30 on Friday - but there pay didn't go down. If they were hourly I paid them the same 40 rate. How can that not be "paid time off"?

Because it's just a change in working conditions. If there was another office across town who paid the same per week as you but had always closed at 4.30 on friday would their employees be getting paid time off? Will the people you hire in future who will never have to work until 5.30 on friday for you be getting paid time off? No, they'll just be getting the pay that's agreed for the work that's agreed. And the same applies to your current employees. The agreement has changed, but they're still getting the agreed pay for the agreed hours.

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I'm not angry I just don't like people to accuse me of "disingenuous bullshit" because they have a reading and or comprehension problem

Then you won't like this - pretending the comment you made about paying your employees not to come to work at all has nothing to do with welfare is disingenuous bullshit

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mirage62 0]

Tell you what. I'll let everyone read this.... And they can figure out who full of what and who can and can't read....

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[wmw999 2,127]

Some people like arguing more than others. Let them have their fun. Frankly, I thought what you said was perfectly clear.

Let people off an hour early, you're a hero. A 2 1/2% raise isn't as impressive sounding, at least not to me).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 1,915]

Everyone like to get off early on Friday. Hell, the parachute industry in DeLand takes at least a half day off every Friday. Who started that anyway? Was it Booth or Sherman?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,257]

wmw999

Let people off an hour early, you're a hero. A 2 1/2% raise isn't as impressive sounding, at least not to me).

If you were given a 2.5% raise would you say your employer was giving you free money for doing nothing?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,127]

If I were given an individual 2.5% raise, I'd assume it was part of my compensation package, and therefore related to my performance.

If everyone were given one, I'd see it as (likely) realignment of pay, which would imply that I'd been underpaid in the past. If I were given an hour each Friday without a pay cut, if probably be happier than with a generalized pay increase. Because, frankly, I value my personal time more highly than I'm paid for it. Unless, of course, I need the money

This comes with some experience. I did get a pay realignment raise in the 1970's, and while it beat not getting one, knowing that it was given because they couldn't attract new people at that wage was a little depressing. But that employer sucked in many ways...

I also got a raise in the 1990's, to compensate for the loss of a week of vacation when my contract was transitioned from one company to another.

But now, Safety Day? That felt like free vacation!
Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mirage62 0]

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If I were given an hour each Friday without a pay cut, if probably be happier than with a generalized pay increase.

Yeah, my whole point was just how HAPPY a extra hour off on Friday made everyone. It open my eyes. We get 18 days off a year, plus the 7 standard holidays...... I'm absolutely sure that IF I had said "everyone can take the hour off without pay" 95% of the crew would have.

Once people feel they are being paid fairly, benefits are in line....then I understand time off becomes the next big deal.

I set someone off about mailing the check home - be actually I really want to figure out how to give more paid time off - within the ability to take care of our customers and grow the company.

Sorry....talk about thread drift.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[normiss 622]

As I was nearing the highly desired 4 weeks off per year, the company changed our PTO - Personal Time Off program to FTO - Flexible Time Off, for Engineers and above.
No more earning xx.x number of hours per payday, just take the time you need as long as the work is completed and the boss is happy with the network.

It feels weird as hell, unless I'm on a DZ with a hot spot "working from home".

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>But CNN sure seems to be in the tank for Clinton. Adding "racist" to a comment
>from Trump.....
>The press has lost the moral high ground

I think the press is regaining the moral high ground. Calling out racism, correcting errors and fairly moderating debates is part of their job. It's not moral to give equal time (and equal weight to the opinions of) the US justice system and Timothy McVeigh, for example.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln