Social Cost of Carbon

[brenthutch 388]

"On any conceivable scale of measurement, the benefits to mankind from the use of fossil fuels have to outweigh the negatives by a factor of hundreds if not thousands. The benefits so wildly exceed the costs that the whole effort to try to quantify and weigh the two can't really even be justified. Even if you hugely minimize the benefits and exaggerate the costs, there couldn't possibly be any way to make the use of fossil fuels by mankind into a net negative. "

http://manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2016/6/11/annals-of-government-fraud-the-social-cost-of-carbon

This article sums up nicely, what I have been saying for years.

[RonD1120 58]

With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

If you think that has any relevance to the climate change debate, you are sorely misunderstanding the issue.

No one is saying that fossil fuels are inherently evil. What most people and just about all scientists are saying is that fossil fuels have negatives as well as positives. Since we now have, or soon will have, the technology to produce power with fewer negatives, we need to switch away from fossil fuels.

I know in your simplistic world the environmental argument is just "carbon bad!" and if you can point out benefits of fossil fuels then you've won the argument. You haven't won the argument because you're arguing against a position that no one else is arguing for.

- Dan G

[gowlerk 1,955]

Very true. But we can do better now.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wmw999 2,168]

So therefore we should only continue to try to innovate along previously-established lines, without paying attention to implications we didn't really previously understand? How do you like your town dumps? Or the "big ocean" theory of getting rid of waste?

Only a simplistic thinker thinks that we've achieved the peak of what we can do. For that matter, only a simplistic thinker thinks there's an absolute for peak, and that the goalposts aren't shifting constantly based on a whole lot more than one or two factors.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

But Wendy, the social benefits of domesticating the horse are incalculable! Think of all the benefits to commerce, transportation, defense, healthcare, you name it! And now all these alarmists want to spend money on cars. Ridiculous.

- Dan G

[gowlerk 1,955]

Sample from the article. It long, poorly written, poorly thought out and full of nonsense.

Quote

Health effects. Assume worst case projected scenarios of five or even six degrees of warming. That's a lot less than the average temperature difference between, say, New York and Houston. As far as I know, Houston is no less healthy than New York.

This is an example.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,678]

RonD1120

With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

Your time would have been better spent reading science books than the 2,000 year old book of neolithic fables you prefer.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 388]

DanG

What most people and just about all scientists are saying is that fossil fuels have negatives as well as positives.

That is what I have been saying all along! (Though I would flip the order).

With regard to the negatives, they can, (and to a large extent have been) mitigated.

And I am all for progress and doing things better but blowing billions on windmills, with NO demonstrable benefit, is NOT progress.

[jakee 1,276]

RonD1120

With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,276]

rushmc

******With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

The point has already been countered. But to reiterate what others have already said - I don't believe anyone except full blown hippie survivalists who think earth's population should be a few million people still living in caves have ever said that fossil fuel use has been a net negative for humanity.

Certainly neither Kallend nor BV have ever said that. So when Ron says that Brent's post will ruin their day well, he clearly has absolutely no idea what their position really is.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

*********With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

The point has already been countered. But to reiterate what others have already said - I don't believe anyone except full blown hippie survivalists who think earth's population should be a few million people still living in caves have ever said that fossil fuel use has been a net negative for humanity.

Certainly neither Kallend nor BV have ever said that. So when Ron says that Brent's post will ruin their day well, he clearly has absolutely no idea what their position really is.

Sure sure

anyone with whom you do not agree with is uneducated, uninformed or stupid.

Go suck on an egg.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,276]

Nice one Rush, way to turn that hypocrisy meter up to 11.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

jakee

*********With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

The point has already been countered.

Just to be clear, the point was conceded not countered.

[jakee 1,276]

brenthutch

************With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

The point has already been countered.

Just to be clear, the point was conceded not countered.

No, Ron's point has been countered.

Your point was so blindingly obvious no-one else is really sure why you posted it in the first place. Are you going to come back tomorrow to tell us that ice is cold, and the sky is blue?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

jakee

***************With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

You have absolutely no understanding of the positions you disagree with. None whatsoever.

Ya?
And this is the typical bullshit reply you use on anyone who has a point you cant counter

The point has already been countered.

Just to be clear, the point was conceded not countered.

No, Ron's point has been countered.

Your point was so blindingly obvious no-one else is really sure why you posted it in the first place. Are you going to come back tomorrow to tell us that ice is cold, and the sky is blue?

Yes and other "blindingly obvious" tidbits such as:

Wind and solar are not viable alternatives to fossil fuels
Obamacare is failing
CO2 will not destroy the planet
Guns don't kill, people do
Welfare creates generational poverty
High minimum wages kill jobs
Unchecked illegal immigration drives down wages

I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually folks out there who would take issue with these "blindingly obvious" facts. Speakers Corner is a forum created to inform these lost souls.

[billvon 2,470]

>I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually folks out there who would take issue
>with these "blindingly obvious" facts.

Of course there are. Just as there are actually folks out there who take issue with the facts that:

-vaccines work pretty well at stopping disease
-US spacecraft landed on the Moon
-terrorists blew up the WTC by flying airplanes into it
-evolution made us look like what we look like today
-sunlight is more dangerous to people than cellphone radiation
-the ozone layer actually exists, and is not a communist plot to make your air conditioner suck

This is the US, and people can take issue with whatever they like.

[jakee 1,276]

Quote

I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually folks out there who would take issue with these "blindingly obvious" facts.

Not crazy at all. For instance, you take issue with the blindingly obvious fact that it isn't a good idea to wait until one thing is gone before finding another thing to replace it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

jakee

Quote

I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually folks out there who would take issue with these "blindingly obvious" facts.

Not crazy at all. For instance, you take issue with the blindingly obvious fact that it isn't a good idea to wait until one thing is gone before finding another thing to replace it.

Agreed and we should take action when we only have about a centuries worth of fossil fuel left, not before.

[jakee 1,276]

brenthutch

***

Quote

I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually folks out there who would take issue with these "blindingly obvious" facts.

Not crazy at all. For instance, you take issue with the blindingly obvious fact that it isn't a good idea to wait until one thing is gone before finding another thing to replace it.

Agreed and we should take action when we only have about a centuries worth of fossil fuel left, not before.

How will you know when that is?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

kallend

***With this and the CDC thread, you've ruined the day for kallend and billvon et al.

Your time would have been better spent reading science books than the 2,000 year old book of neolithic fables you prefer.

Truth is when it was relevant, I wasn't reading either. It was just too boring. I'd rather be doing than reading. When the Bible became important to me science played no part in my life at all. It remained boring.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

jakee

No, Ron's point has been countered.

You don't know what my point was.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,168]

And you're just the guy to do that informing, aren't you. Being sarcastically condescending really helps to get people to understand your lessons, too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Coreeece 2]

wmw999

And you're just the guy to do that informing, aren't you. Being sarcastically condescending really helps to get people to understand your lessons, too.

Well, "sarcastically condescending" is the default tone for this forum, just as you have so clearly demonstrated.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour