ryoder 1,400 #1 April 3, 2016 I think we will be hearing a lot about this in the near future: https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160403-panama-papers-global-overview.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 April 3, 2016 I would think most people would simply assume this is how it's just done. No surprises in any of this for me; simply more confirmation. Further, I assume absolutely nothing will be done regarding this. I'm not saying it's right; just how it's done.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,926 #3 April 3, 2016 That link may be overwhelmed. Or maybe the subject of a DNS attack already. But try here. http://pulitzercenter.org/projects/panama-papersAlways remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #4 April 3, 2016 Yes, it took a couple tries before I was able to get that link."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #5 April 3, 2016 ryoderI think we will be hearing a lot about this in the near future: https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160403-panama-papers-global-overview.html Oh no. People with a lot of money go to great lengths to hang on to it. What's this world coming to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 April 3, 2016 http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,926 #7 April 3, 2016 QuotePeople with a lot of money go to great lengths to hang on to it. What's this world coming to? But there is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Not to mention money laundering. People will be named, and it will be a big story.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #8 April 3, 2016 gowlerkQuotePeople with a lot of money go to great lengths to hang on to it. What's this world coming to? But there is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Not to mention money laundering. People will be named, and it will be a big story. I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,926 #9 April 4, 2016 I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #10 April 4, 2016 gowlerkI hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. I think some people are going to die over this. A lot of Putin's friends, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mossack Fonseca building mysteriously burns down, too. This news broke hours ago and Australia's already investigating hundreds of people for tax evasion. I wonder if we haven't heard about any Americans in this because the FBI is currently rounding them all up. The next couple of days look like they're going to be pretty interesting.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #11 April 4, 2016 gowlerkI hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. Obviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #12 April 4, 2016 kallend***I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. Obviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. No more than a college physics professor.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #13 April 4, 2016 FlyingRhenquest This news broke hours ago and Australia's already investigating hundreds of people for tax evasion. NPR just reported that about 500 Indian citizens are being investigated."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,926 #14 April 4, 2016 QuoteObviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. They may have other companies that specialize in that market.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #15 April 4, 2016 turtlespeed******I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. Obviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. No more than a college physics professor. Right - there were no physics professors from any country in the world on that list of cheats. Just very very wealthy people.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #16 April 4, 2016 gowlerkI hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. Other than a US businessman who liked to travel to Russia to have sex with underage orphans. He was a client from jail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #17 April 4, 2016 gowlerkQuoteObviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. They may have other companies that specialize in that market.The US has unusual tax reporting requirements that require you to report all foreign business interests, and submit full tax returns for those businesses so you can be taxed on your off-shore earnings. You can claim any foreign taxes you paid as a deduction, but the difference between that and the US rate has to be paid to the IRS. I believe all the other people with a significant interest in your offshore business are also required to submit a lot of info about their income to the IRS as well. This has also become a big problem for US citizens living, and earning an income, outside the US. The IRS goes after people who, for example, are US citizens but have lived and worked in Canada for years, and have no income from US sources. In some cases the IRS has gone after people who were born in the US (and so are citizens) but moved (with their parents) to Canada as infants, and have never lived or worked in the US. You still have to file a tax return and pay applicable US taxes, if you don't you face stiff penalties even if you do not actually owe any US taxes (as Canadian taxes are higher than US taxes so the credit for foreign taxes paid is larger than the US taxes would have been). The point is, hiding money from the US government is not just a simple matter of setting up a shell foreign business, because you still have to report all income and expenses for that business as if it was a US business. You would also have to create a fake paper trail, with falsified deductions showing foreign taxes paid. Either that, or you don't declare the business at all, but then it's hard to move money from US banks; how do you transfer money to "nowhere"? It may just be easier to park your money in a Swiss bank account. Or maybe such elaborate fake companies exist but are more complicated than Mossack Fonseca deals with. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #18 April 4, 2016 kallend***I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down. From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far. Obviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. There is nothing illegal or unethical about Americans having foreign accounts if they are reporting their earnings and disclosing the existence of the accounts to Treasury and the IRS annually. There is a whole host of legitimate business reasons for having funds over seas, and having control over foreign trust and holding companies. That alone doesn't make you a tax evader."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #19 April 4, 2016 GeorgiaDon***QuoteObviously super-rich Americans wouldn't stoop to such unethical behavior. They may have other companies that specialize in that market.The US has unusual tax reporting requirements that require you to report all foreign business interests, and submit full tax returns for those businesses so you can be taxed on your off-shore earnings. You can claim any foreign taxes you paid as a deduction, but the difference between that and the US rate has to be paid to the IRS. I believe all the other people with a significant interest in your offshore business are also required to submit a lot of info about their income to the IRS as well. This has also become a big problem for US citizens living, and earning an income, outside the US. The IRS goes after people who, for example, are US citizens but have lived and worked in Canada for years, and have no income from US sources. In some cases the IRS has gone after people who were born in the US (and so are citizens) but moved (with their parents) to Canada as infants, and have never lived or worked in the US. You still have to file a tax return and pay applicable US taxes, if you don't you face stiff penalties even if you do not actually owe any US taxes (as Canadian taxes are higher than US taxes so the credit for foreign taxes paid is larger than the US taxes would have been). The point is, hiding money from the US government is not just a simple matter of setting up a shell foreign business, because you still have to report all income and expenses for that business as if it was a US business. You would also have to create a fake paper trail, with falsified deductions showing foreign taxes paid. Either that, or you don't declare the business at all, but then it's hard to move money from US banks; how do you transfer money to "nowhere"? It may just be easier to park your money in a Swiss bank account. Or maybe such elaborate fake companies exist but are more complicated than Mossack Fonseca deals with. Don The IRS estimates approx $100Billion revenues lost due to abusive schemes involving overseas accounts. I very much doubt that it's due to middle class or blue collar workers (or even college professors).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #20 April 4, 2016 quadeI would think most people would simply assume this is how it's just done. No surprises in any of this for me; simply more confirmation. Further, I assume absolutely nothing will be done regarding this. I'm not saying it's right; just how it's done. Yup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #21 April 4, 2016 Uh, oh! Movie star Jackie Chan, who had at least six companies managed through the law firm http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-04/unprecedented-leak-of-offshore-financial-records-exposes-secrets/7293524 "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #22 April 4, 2016 QuoteThe IRS estimates approx $100Billion revenues lost due to abusive schemes involving overseas accounts. I very much doubt that it's due to middle class or blue collar workers (or even college professors). Sure. It's people with the resources to set up schemes that are elaborate enough to withstand any but the most detailed (and expensive) audit. It's not likely to be a simple matter of setting up a shell foreign business, send a bunch of money there, then "neglect" to tell the IRS about it. College professors and blue collar workers don't have the resources to make it worthwhile to pay lawyers and accountants to make sure the money trail is buried deeply enough. Anyway, it's not clear that all the businesses set up through Mossack Fonesca are bogus. It's possible that many are legitimate, it's only a crime if such offshore accounts and businesses are used to evade taxes. Nothing of the sort has been proven yet regarding any US citizens. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #23 April 5, 2016 Files show 441 US clients: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-04/mossack-fonseca-has-441-us-clients-who-are-they"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #24 April 5, 2016 ryoderFiles show 441 US clients: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-04/mossack-fonseca-has-441-us-clients-who-are-they I skimmed the thread but didn't find the answer. How does anyone know there are 441 clients if they aren't named somewhere? How do you count something you can't name? 441 is a very specific number.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #25 April 5, 2016 quade***Files show 441 US clients: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-04/mossack-fonseca-has-441-us-clients-who-are-they I skimmed the thread but didn't find the answer. How does anyone know there are 441 clients if they aren't named somewhere? How do you count something you can't name? 441 is a very specific number. Maps created by Irish Times digital production editor Brian Kilmartin: https://briankilmartin.cartodb.com/maps Now whether he redacted the names from the data, or was provided redacted data, I don't know."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
