Mossack Fonseca / The Panama Papers

[jakee 1,280]

Quote

How does anyone know there are 441 clients if they aren't named somewhere? How do you count something you can't name?

Because the person who wrote that article does not have access to the papers, he only has access to articles by reporters who have access to the papers.

Quote

441 is a very specific number.

Specific numbers are what you tend to get when you count things.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ryoder 1,412]

October 12, 2011: Sen. Bernie Sanders on the Senate floor, opposing the Panama Free Trade Agreement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrsI0Sw2hq8

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[turtlespeed 212]

ryoder

October 12, 2011: Sen. Bernie Sanders on the Senate floor, opposing the Panama Free Trade Agreement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrsI0Sw2hq8

You beat me to it!

http://www.inquisitr.com/2962702/bernie-sanders-predicted-the-panama-tax-haven-scandal-five-years-ago-but-no-one-would-listen/

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ryoder 1,412]

The PM of Iceland just resigned over the Panama Papers: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/05/pressure-mounts-on-iceland-government-over-pm-scandal.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DougH 270]

I don't see a US politician offering to resign under similar circumstances.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 3]

DougH

I don't see a US politician offering to resign under similar circumstances.

I really do wish that when caught in the act US politicians resigned the way Japanese politicians traditionally do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

quade

***I don't see a US politician offering to resign under similar circumstances.

I really do wish that when caught in the act US politicians resigned the way Japanese politicians traditionally do.

I never agreed with someone in speakers corner before. I guess I owe beer.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Phil1111 943]

quade

***I don't see a US politician offering to resign under similar circumstances.

I really do wish that when caught in the act US politicians resigned the way Japanese politicians traditionally do.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_A0GigrQl0

Or like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcO4MMzdYE8

[quade 3]

The second one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,679]

gowlerk

I hope so - GOP or Dem - I hope they all go down.

From what I've seen so far there are few to zero Americans involved. So far.

Explanation?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,412]

Some Americans named: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article69943337.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[turtlespeed 212]

ryoder

Some Americans named: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article69943337.html

More to come - wait until all the hush money is paid and see what spills out then.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,679]

F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

http://observer.com/2016/04/panama-papers-reveal-clintons-kremlin-connection/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DougH 270]

kallend

F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

You have yet to make a case why being on this list ALONE should be deserving of instant condemnation of tax evasion.

You have no idea if Americans on this list filed all required treasury reporting about their foreign accounts.

You can have foreign accounts, report them, and pay all taxes due to the government.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[yoink 321]

and there's the rub.

If people are acting within the boundaries of the law of their country then it's fine. If you don't agree with the laws, petition to get them changed.

I tell you what - If I had a fuck tonne of cash, I'd pay accountants to find the best ways to make it work for me within the law. If that included moving some of it offshore I'd do it in a heartbeat and I'll call anyone who says they'd do otherwise either a liar or stupid.

However, if they're acting outside the law they should be prosecuted.

You don't get to whine about rich people because they're rich. that's just petty.

[headoverheels 292]

rushmc

http://observer.com/2016/04/panama-papers-reveal-clintons-kremlin-connection/

"Disclosure: Donald Trump is the father-in-law of Jared Kushner, the publisher of Observer Media."

[kallend 1,679]

DougH

***F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

You have yet to make a case why being on this list ALONE should be deserving of instant condemnation of tax evasion.

You have no idea if Americans on this list filed all required treasury reporting about their foreign accounts.

You can have foreign accounts, report them, and pay all taxes due to the government.

Oh, I'm sure you're right. Those prime ministers, dictators, and their cronies all have perfectly legitimate reasons for hiding their $Billions behind multiple layers of shell companies in the Seychelles, BVIs, etc. BTW, do you want to buy a bridge?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 943]

"Fortune 500 corporations are avoiding up to $695 billion in U.S. federal income taxes on $2.4 trillion in offshore holdings. While this figure is higher than “official” estimates—a report by the Congressional Research Service estimated that large corporations are avoiding $100 billion in US taxes—the CTJ uses a number of assumptions based on company accounts to create a more complete picture of corporate tax avoidance.

For example, it notes that Pfizer PFE -0.27% , which has subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands, Ireland, the Isle of Jersey, Luxembourg, and Singapore, holds almost $200 billion in what is called unrepatriated income. This is not disclosed directly anywhere in Pfizer’s accounts, but since the company estimates, in a footnote, a figure for the deferred taxes it would owe if it brought the cash back to the U.S., the CTJ worked backwards to calculate a total offshore cash figure. Pfizer’s contemplated tax inversion, whereby it would reincorporate in Ireland, would move this cash permanently offshore.

Apple is another such company. Its offshore cash, which it calls “cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities,” rose from $158 billion in 2014 to $200 billion in 2015, the CTJ says. Apple AAPL -2.18% declined to comment for this story and referred me to the company’s annual report. However, CTJ’s figures come from the company’s latest quarterly report. Fortune was able to confirm those figures. "
http://fortune.com/2016/03/11/sanders-trump-offshore-tax-havens/

Lets see... its OK for Fortune 500 companies to avoid taxes using existing tax laws but not OK for a small businessman or small corporation?

[gowlerk 1,956]

I agree. There is no scandal in tax avoidance. We all arrange or affairs to pay the least tax we can. The scandal is in the way lobbyists are paid to spread money around to politicians in order to keep them from reforming the tax laws.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DougH 270]

kallend

******F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

You have yet to make a case why being on this list ALONE should be deserving of instant condemnation of tax evasion.

You have no idea if Americans on this list filed all required treasury reporting about their foreign accounts.

You can have foreign accounts, report them, and pay all taxes due to the government.

Oh, I'm sure you're right. Those prime ministers, dictators, and their cronies all have perfectly legitimate reasons for hiding their $Billions behind multiple layers of shell companies in the Seychelles, BVIs, etc. BTW, do you want to buy a bridge?

I will buy your bridge as soon as you show proof they were hiding anything.

I won't defend a tax cheat, I am a tax accountant and my corporate clients file all their returns, and follow the letter of the law.

Again, you only have one part of the picture. You owe an apology to every person on that list who has filed their foreign informational returns and paid US tax on their foreign earnings.

US individuals pay tax on foreign earnings, they are taxed world wide, so unless you have tax returns, you cant tell me that they did or did not pay their tax and comply with the law.

Your soap box is rather wobbly when you stop and considering what the price higher education is doing to average middle class American families.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DougH 270]

Phil1111

Lets see... its OK for Fortune 500 companies to avoid taxes using existing tax laws but not OK for a small businessman or small corporation?

That is the way the corporate tax law is written.

US corporations do not pay tax on foreign earnings reinvested overseas unless it is repatriated into the US. Or if the foreign subsidiary invests in US property.

If there was a tax law change, or a tax holiday on foreign dividends, these companies would be happy to bring it back.

100% legal, and it is their duty to shareholders to comply with tax law in the way that best maximizes shareholder value. Shareholders also happen to be 401k's, mutual funds, and pensions.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Phil1111 943]

DougH

***
Lets see... its OK for Fortune 500 companies to avoid taxes using existing tax laws but not OK for a small businessman or small corporation?

That is the way the corporate tax law is written.

US corporations do not pay tax on foreign earnings reinvested overseas unless it is repatriated into the US. Or if the foreign subsidiary invests in US property.

If there was a tax law change, or a tax holiday on foreign dividends, these companies would be happy to bring it back.

100% legal, and it is their duty to shareholders to comply with tax law in the way that best maximizes shareholder value. Shareholders also happen to be 401k's, mutual funds, and pensions.

Completely correct. Any CEO has the primary duty to shareholders. The problem with tax laws is they allow profits generated in one jurisdiction to be sheltered in another. Thats a result of lobbying by special interest groups and corporations. Its not like politicians don't know whats going on.

US citizens pay the highest drug costs in the world and companies like Merck and Pfizer sidestep US taxes using offshore tax shelters.

http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/15/pfizer-merck-tax-dodgers/

[kallend 1,679]

DougH

*********F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

You have yet to make a case why being on this list ALONE should be deserving of instant condemnation of tax evasion.

You have no idea if Americans on this list filed all required treasury reporting about their foreign accounts.

You can have foreign accounts, report them, and pay all taxes due to the government.

Oh, I'm sure you're right. Those prime ministers, dictators, and their cronies all have perfectly legitimate reasons for hiding their $Billions behind multiple layers of shell companies in the Seychelles, BVIs, etc. BTW, do you want to buy a bridge?

I will buy your bridge as soon as you show proof they were hiding anything.



Sure, the entire purpose of multiple layers of anonymously owned offshore shell companies is to be as transparent as possible. No concealment whatsoever is intended.

I wonder why Iceland's PM resigned.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

************F. Scott Fitzgerald: “Ernie, the rich are different from us”

Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”

This scandal emphasizes that, shows that the super rich firmly believe they deserve to be far richer than the rest of us poor sucker taxpayers, and are prepared to go to great lengths to hide it.

In a very real sense, every tax evader is stealing from the rest of society. And this AFTER they have already bought and paid for their governments to tilt the laws in their favor.

You have yet to make a case why being on this list ALONE should be deserving of instant condemnation of tax evasion.

You have no idea if Americans on this list filed all required treasury reporting about their foreign accounts.

You can have foreign accounts, report them, and pay all taxes due to the government.

Oh, I'm sure you're right. Those prime ministers, dictators, and their cronies all have perfectly legitimate reasons for hiding their $Billions behind multiple layers of shell companies in the Seychelles, BVIs, etc. BTW, do you want to buy a bridge?

I will buy your bridge as soon as you show proof they were hiding anything.



Sure, the entire purpose of multiple layers of anonymously owned offshore shell companies is to be as transparent as possible. No concealment whatsoever is intended.

I wonder why Iceland's PM resigned.

See John, we can agree in some issues.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun