Zika

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

But it annoys the heck out of me when people try to push their belief on others. So I push back.

How was Ron pushing his beliefs on you?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,929]

I think there are some deleted posts in the thread. But Ron often indulges in his God given (literally) mission to bring the grace of his beliefs to us here.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[headoverheels 291]

Coreeece

The concept of God is inane. People use that concept in various ways - some even suppress it.

I fixed your spelling for you.

[billvon 2,435]

>So practically every civilization in the history of humanity has developed a
>concept of some type of mysterious God just for the hell of it, what a
>coincidence!

Not a coincidence at all. We have structures in our brain that predispose us to see visions, hear voices and find patterns where there are none. Early Man thus perceived a complex and confusing world through these structures - and imagined gods to explain the patterns. A good book on this:

Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief
Paperback – March 26, 2002

by Andrew Newberg (Author), Eugene D'Aquili (Author), Vince Rause (Author)

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

***How was Ron pushing his beliefs on you?

I think there are some deleted posts in the thread. But Ron often indulges in his God given (literally) mission to bring the grace of his beliefs to us here.

If one feels threatened to conform to anther's opinion of life and God on an internet forum, then I'd submit that they're either bitterly biased or exceedingly paranoid...I'd prescribe some time-off from social media.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

We have structures in our brain that predispose us to see visions, hear voices

Probably more so in an altered state - Sorry, I can't relate.

billvon

We have structures in our brain that predispose us to find patterns where there are none.

Again, probably more so in an altered state, but I could see the evolutionary benefits of that. It's certainly an interesting phenomenon - one that I've certainly experienced myself.

billvon

Early Man thus perceived a complex and confusing world through these structures - and imagined gods to explain the patterns.

Well, today, faith in God has nothing to do with early man's explanations of complex patterns that didn't exist.

billvon

Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief

If I was in an unhappy relationship with a terminally ill wife that I loved too much to abandon, then I suppose I could just read a book called "Why Love Won't Go Away: Why You Owe it to Yourself to leave - but wtf difference would it make if I didn't have that selfish desire to suppress the truth and abandon her to begin with?

It's because of this type of blinding selfishness that the country finds itself in the predicament that it's in today.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DanG 1]

You make no sense. Why is denying the existence of God selfish?

And back to my other point. If there were one true God who was constantly sending prophets down to the people, why wouldn't at least some of those prophets tell the same story? I can buy that some of them were charlatans or deluded, but all of them except Jesus? Did God really decide to only reveal himself to the Jews about 2000 years ago, and only that one time? In every human He implanted the desire to know God (according to you) but refused to give them any information about himself? Instead, he let hundreds of false Gods propagate through the non-Jewish world, and then punishes the ancestors of those people when they don't convert? Talk about selfish.

- Dan G

[Coreeece 2]

Ya, I know - you don't dig Judaism - I get it, but that's not what we were talking about.

We were essentially talking about an instinct that predisposes one to acknowledge the possibility of a deity. You said that if people didn't independently come to the same conclusion, it would prove that the deity didn't exist. I'm simply asking you to explain that logic.

Before my fiancee was officially diagnosed with brain cancer, there were several groups of doctors that all came to different conclusions of what they perceived the abnormality to be - by your logic, that would prove the cancer didn't exist and we could then forgo the biopsy - How convenient.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[rehmwa 2]

gowlerk

I see it as a desire for knowledge that is unattainable. I don't deny or believe in a creator myself. But I acknowledge that I have no way of knowing. I accept it as a mystery and believe that man should not and can not ever know. I also understand that each person has their own belief on the answer to this puzzle, and I support their right to those beliefs.

But it annoys the heck out of me when people try to push their belief on others. So I push back.

This is perfect ^^^^

(that 'push' also includes arrogant disrespect, mockery, derision, condescension for another's beliefs or disbeliefs)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

Quote

Ya, I know - you don't dig Judaism - I get it, but that's not what we were talking about.

I don't "dig" any religion. I do appreciate your trying to imply I am anti-Semitic because Jesus was a Jew. Makes a lot of sense.

Quote

We were essentially talking about an instinct that predisposes one to acknowledge the possibility of a deity. You said that if people didn't independently come to the same conclusion, it would prove that the deity didn't exist. I'm simply asking you to explain that logic.

The logic is pretty clear. If, as you believe, Man has an innate desire to search for God, why have men across the globe never independently come to the same conclusion about the nature of God? If he were real and omnipresent, and Man had the ability to feel his presence (as followers of your religion believe), then people all over the globe should have felt his presence in the same way since the dawn of time. They don't. People in India feel the presence of many Gods. So did people in ancient Roma and Greece. Other people felt the presence of spirits in natural objects, but no single spiritual force. You can argue that some societies misinterpreted their sense of His divine presence, but to argue that they all misunderstood God's nature except the Jews doesn't make sense.

Quote

Before my fiancee was officially diagnosed with brain cancer, there were several groups of doctors that all came to different conclusions of what they perceived the abnormality to be - by your logic, that would prove the cancer didn't exist and we could then forgo the biopsy - How convenient.

Sorry about your finance, but that's a terrible analogy. Her brain tumor is not all powerful and desiring of the love of mankind. It doesn't have a spiritual presence which can be felt by man throughout all space and time.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,435]

>Probably more so in an altered state - Sorry, I can't relate.

No, that was a large part of what the book is about. No "alteration" needed - we are hardwired to perceive things that aren't there.

>Well, today, faith in God has nothing to do with early man's explanations of complex patterns
>that didn't exist.

Which is a large part of the reason that religion is dying. People no longer need a complex theological explanation as to why eclipses happen, or what comets are.

>If I was in an unhappy relationship with a terminally ill wife that I loved too much to abandon, then I
>suppose I could just read a book called "Why Love Won't Go Away: Why You Owe it to Yourself to
>leave - but wtf difference would it make if I didn't have that selfish desire to suppress the truth and
>abandon her to begin with?

You are trying to substitute emotion for science again.

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

Quote

Before my fiancee was officially diagnosed with brain cancer, there were several groups of doctors that all came to different conclusions of what they perceived the abnormality to be - by your logic, that would prove the cancer didn't exist and we could then forgo the biopsy - How convenient.

Sorry about your finance, but that's a terrible analogy.

People like Stumpy would say that it's silly or foolish to pursue the idea of God - that it's inane - that perhaps people who do are of a lesser intelligence, but from the analogy we see that the only foolish thing would be to disregard an idea altogether merely because others disagree.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DanG 1]

Quote

People like Stumpy would say that it's silly or foolish to pursue the idea of God - that it's inane - that perhaps people who do are of a lesser intelligence, but from the analogy we see that the only foolish thing would be to disregard an idea altogether merely because others disagree.

I haven't disregarded the idea altogether. On the contrary, I've thought about it quite extensively.

Sorry you don't feel the need to respond to the substantive point. I thought it might be interesting.

- Dan G

[Stumpy 256]

Coreeece

***

Quote

Before my fiancee was officially diagnosed with brain cancer, there were several groups of doctors that all came to different conclusions of what they perceived the abnormality to be - by your logic, that would prove the cancer didn't exist and we could then forgo the biopsy - How convenient.

Sorry about your finance, but that's a terrible analogy.

People like Stumpy would say that it's silly or foolish to pursue the idea of God - that it's inane - that perhaps people who do are of a lesser intelligence, but from the analogy we see that the only foolish thing would be to disregard an idea altogether merely because others disagree.

You are projecting - I made no qualitative judgement at all. If you need something to believe in that's fine by me. All these thousands of gods have been invented usually to explain something that people don't understand - the sun rising, natural disasters, what happens "after", and most of them get forgotten by subsequent generations as the world is better understood, people become more educated etc. Just look at creationism - it's todays flat earth yet some people cling stubbornly to it.

What bothers me, is when people try and influence governments and other people's lives, based on a book that is at best an analagous representation of life teaching certain lessons to a subset of people who feel they need it, for whatever emotional or spiritual reason.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Coreeece 2]

Stumpy

I made no qualitative judgement at all.

Oh, you said "people who need the crutch to have something to believe in."

I don't even know wtf you're talking about. I think I had you confused with headoverheels, my bad.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

Sorry you don't feel the need to respond to the substantive point. I thought it might be interesting.

I'm not here to convince you otherwise - God forbid I shove my beliefs down your throat.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DanG 1]

You spout your beliefs here constantly, but when someone challenges you, you got nothing.

I was trying to have a discussion, but you don't have anything to say, as usual.

- Dan G

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

DanG

You spout your beliefs here constantly, but when someone challenges you, you got nothing.

I was trying to have a discussion, but you don't have anything to say, as usual.

Very typical of the 'devout' when you pose a difficult question.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,435]

How did this become a religious thread? Zika is a threat to everyone. Religious types are helping out. Secular organizations are helping out.

[gowlerk 1,929]

billvon

How did this become a religious thread? Zika is a threat to everyone. Religious types are helping out. Secular organizations are helping out.

Simple, Zika is a virus sent by God to punish sinners. Just like AIDS. See, everything is about God and morals. Really though, I think Kallend set it up in the OP when he used it to take a shot at the pro-life movement. It snowballed from there.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

You spout your beliefs here constantly

When was the last time I spouted my religious beliefs?

DanG

I was trying to have a discussion, but you don't have anything to say, as usual.

You were trying to direct the conversation into something we weren't even talking about.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

wolfriverjoe

***You spout your beliefs here constantly, but when someone challenges you, you got nothing.

I was trying to have a discussion, but you don't have anything to say, as usual.

Very typical of the 'devout' when you pose a difficult question.

I have spent years here addressing every question to the best of my ability according to my perspective - in vain.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

How did this become a religious thread?

Ron said that Christians would take care of zika babies and everybody flipped the fuck out.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

Coreeece

******You spout your beliefs here constantly, but when someone challenges you, you got nothing.

I was trying to have a discussion, but you don't have anything to say, as usual.

Very typical of the 'devout' when you pose a difficult question.

I have spent years here addressing every question to the best of my ability according to my perspective - in vain.

Ok, here is the question posed above by DanG:

Quote

The logic is pretty clear. If, as you believe, Man has an innate desire to search for God, why have men across the globe never independently come to the same conclusion about the nature of God? If he were real and omnipresent, and Man had the ability to feel his presence (as followers of your religion believe), then people all over the globe should have felt his presence in the same way since the dawn of time. They don't. People in India feel the presence of many Gods. So did people in ancient Roma and Greece. Other people felt the presence of spirits in natural objects, but no single spiritual force. You can argue that some societies misinterpreted their sense of His divine presence, but to argue that they all misunderstood God's nature except the Jews doesn't make sense.

I've heard it phrased in a variety of ways, but to put it bluntly, EVERY society says "my God is the right one, all others are false".

Except the Baha'i, and they are too unifying and accepting to be a "Proper" religion

Since there are something like 6000 "gods" worshiped around the world, how is it that any of them are right?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,929]

Quote

Since there are something like 6000 "gods" worshiped around the world, how is it that any of them are right?

They are all equally right, and equally wrong.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.