Italy appeases Muslim visitors

[gowlerk 1,914]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/27/464563258/massive-cover-up-nudes-statues-in-italy-deemed-too-racy-for-irans-president

Or "when in Rome, do as the Iranian clerics do"

Can you say gutless?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/27/464563258/massive-cover-up-nudes-statues-in-italy-deemed-too-racy-for-irans-president

Or "when in Rome, do as the Iranian clerics do"

Can you say gutless?

Allah help him if he ever goes to a Brazilian beach.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Or considerate, depending on your views. I would expect Italy would like a good deal on some oil. I realize you have a better chance of getting a good partnership by not insulting the people you're negotiating with. I thought the covering of statues might have been a bit much, but they appear to have thought the meetings were important, and it's their country.
I recall a middle eastern woman winning something in skydiving and all of her competitors were considerate enough of her beliefs to not celebrate with alcohol until they were completely away from her. I thought it was rather considerate.
I would also respect France's decision to no take alcohol off the table, so no joint dinners were planned.

World business and politics are pretty strange sometimes.

[Texbubba 0]

clink

that's the sound of one more domino falling

[SkyDekker 1,123]

I don't get it, when Bush was walking around taking a stroll holding hands with some Saudi Prince, he was being respectful. Now this is appeasing Muslims?

So how does one determine the difference between being respectful and appeasing?

[nolhtairt 0]

Sweden is taking a stand by rounding up what, 80K refugees and sending them back. Haven't read too much into that yet though.

[TriGirl 268]

normiss

Or considerate, depending on your views. I would expect Italy would like a good deal on some oil. I realize you have a better chance of getting a good partnership by not insulting the people you're negotiating with. I thought the covering of statues might have been a bit much, but they appear to have thought the meetings were important, and it's their country.
I recall a middle eastern woman winning something in skydiving and all of her competitors were considerate enough of her beliefs to not celebrate with alcohol until they were completely away from her. I thought it was rather considerate.
I would also respect France's decision to no take alcohol off the table, so no joint dinners were planned.

World business and politics are pretty strange sometimes.

In a similar move to the example you gave about the non-drinking skydiver, the Italian government could have chosen a different location for the press conference. Now, not serving alcohol at the dinners? There is a simple solution to that: don't offer any to the non-drinking guests, and don't make a big show of it. Just have a non-alcoholic alternative already in place.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Sky,

Quote

So how does one determine the difference between being respectful and appeasing?

Here is one way: Topless Protest Greets Iranian President in Paris http://www.nbcnews.com/video/topless-protest-greets-iranian-president-in-paris-610528323704

And another: Topless protesters disrupt Muslim conference on women http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11862220/Topless-protesters-disrupt-Muslim-conference-on-women.html



Jerry Baumchen

PS) And some wonder why I like the French people.

[Coreeece 2]

SkyDekker

I don't get it, when Bush was walking around taking a stroll holding hands with some Saudi Prince, he was being respectful. Now this is appeasing Muslims?

So how does one determine the difference between being respectful and appeasing?

Really? Please, don't tell me that your recently admitted intolerance has filled you so full of partisan bullshit that you can't tell the difference between respect and censorship?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Coreeece

***I don't get it, when Bush was walking around taking a stroll holding hands with some Saudi Prince, he was being respectful. Now this is appeasing Muslims?

So how does one determine the difference between being respectful and appeasing?

Really? Please, don't tell me that your recently admitted intolerance has filled you so full of partisan bullshit that you can't tell the difference between respect and censorship?

I think the covering of the statues is bullshit.

That doesn't change the question though, which I notice you haven't answered.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

So how does one determine the difference between being respectful and appeasing?

Fairly easy for me. Respect is a two way street, where both sides show it and observe it. Appeasement is done according to one of the definitions "to yield or concede to the belligerent demands of (a nation, group, person, etc.) in a conciliatory effort, sometimes at the expense of justice or other principles."

Italian officials yielded to the belligerents of Iran out of fear to offend at the expense of the principles Italians believe in. I see no indication that the Iranians asked them to do so. The blame seems to lie strictly with pandering, fearful Italian officials trying to make money.

The people of Italy seem to have largely disagreed with them and are angry that their heritage was not proudly displayed.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

Italian officials yielded to the belligerents of Iran out of fear to offend at the expense of the principles Italians believe in. I see no indication that the Iranians asked them to do so.

Bolding mine.

So, if they didn't ask them to do it then 1) how are they the belligerents on this issue and 2) how can it be appeasing, since appeasing would have to be based on a demand as per your definition?

[gowlerk 1,914]

SkyDekker

Quote

Italian officials yielded to the belligerents of Iran out of fear to offend at the expense of the principles Italians believe in. I see no indication that the Iranians asked them to do so.

Bolding mine.

So, if they didn't ask them to do it then 1) how are they the belligerents on this issue and 2) how can it be appeasing, since appeasing would have to be based on a demand as per your definition?

That would be for the Italians officials to answer. I'm reasonable sure that they are not ashamed of the art. Yet they covered it up. I'm assuming out of fear that this beautiful ancient art may offend these people who have a reputation for being belligerent. Muslims live in and visit Italy every day. The Italians do not cover up their nude art out of respect for them, why do they cover it up for these "special" visitors? I say it is because they want to appease them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[winsor 186]

SkyDekker

Quote

Italian officials yielded to the belligerents of Iran out of fear to offend at the expense of the principles Italians believe in. I see no indication that the Iranians asked them to do so.

Bolding mine.

So, if they didn't ask them to do it then 1) how are they the belligerents on this issue and 2) how can it be appeasing, since appeasing would have to be based on a demand as per your definition?

Good point.

The Italians may have been following the tradition of whatever Pope it was who chiseled the penises off various nude statues around Rome.

Apparently he felt that everyone else found the display of penises to be as simply irresistible as he did.

Hiding the display of naked women is simply a matter of being polite to guests that will never, ever have the willing participation of anyone that looks that good. Seeing the display of attractive and voluptuous women and reflecting on what they're stuck with back home might cause an envoy from a medieval shithole to become cranky, which is counterproductive if your purpose is to strike a deal.

If one's concept of femininity is based on women who view sex as vile (and with them it is), it can be a shock to consider that there are some who REALLY enjoy it, and with whom it is good, squeaky clean fun.

When you pop the bubble, people aren't thankful, they're pissed.


BSBD,

Winsor

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

Hiding the display of naked women is simply a matter of being polite to guests that will never, ever have the willing participation of anyone that looks that good. Seeing the display of attractive and voluptuous women and reflecting on what they're stuck with back home might cause an envoy from a medieval shithole to become cranky, which is counterproductive if your purpose is to strike a deal.

Maybe not your type, but Persian women are quite attractive and not opposed to sex at all. Could it be you are projecting a little bit and think having sex with a Persian woman is vile?

[winsor 186]

SkyDekker

Quote

Hiding the display of naked women is simply a matter of being polite to guests that will never, ever have the willing participation of anyone that looks that good. Seeing the display of attractive and voluptuous women and reflecting on what they're stuck with back home might cause an envoy from a medieval shithole to become cranky, which is counterproductive if your purpose is to strike a deal.

Maybe not your type, but Persian women are quite attractive and not opposed to sex at all. Could it be you are projecting a little bit and think having sex with a Persian woman is vile?

Good point. Some of the Persian women I have known are, indeed, breathtaking.

My roommate was absolutely smitten with a stunning and brilliant Persian girl, even though he knew it was not an option in the long run.

I was thinking of some of the downright fugly significant others I have encountered when working in the Third World, and considered how cruel it is to remind their mates of what they are missing.

It strikes me as a sign of real insecurity when someone can't look at an attractive naked body without losing their mind. I have no problem with admiring an appetizing naked woman that I know is simply not on the menu.


BSBD,

Winsor

[wmw999 2,123]

Maybe respect should be shown first, rather than expected. Then if the other party doesn't also show respect, you've lost nothing, but they've lost your respect.

Covering the statues is a bit overboard; holding the meeting elsewhere, or moving a single statue would be perfectly reasonable. Remember, after all, that the partially nude statues of the Spirit of Justice and the Majesty of Law, were covered with drapes because John Ashcroft didn't like them, or their nudity.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,123]

That is completely different, Ashcroft isn't muslim.

[Coreeece 2]

SkyDekker

I think the covering of the statues is bullshit.

I would've suggested chador.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi winsor,

Quote

Some of the Persian women I have known are, indeed, breathtaking.

Jusst before Christmas I was in a JCPenney store and the clerk who assisted me was Persian. She definitely met my criteria for breathtaking.

Quote

I was thinking of some of the downright fugly significant others I have encountered when working in the Third World

Back in the early 90's, on my first trip to the back country of Brazil, I noticed how none of the women working in the factory were very good looking; probably they would meet your definition of 'downright fugly.' A week or so later I was in the Sao Paulo airport waiting to check in and noticed how the female agent was so very nice looking. As I studied her, I noticed that it really was all about the correct amount of makeup that she was using. The women in the factory wore no makeup. I found that to be an interesting contrast.

Jerry Baumchen

[Coreeece 2]

JerryBaumchen

I was in the Sao Paulo airport waiting to check in and noticed how the female agent was so very nice looking. As I studied her...

Is that what they're calling it these days?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour