Related news for September

[Coreeece 2]

wolfriverjoe

***
Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Well, the level of teasing and tempting in that so-called "freedom of choice" is enough that, as Professor Kallend pointed out, if done by modern day cops, would easily be tossed out as entrapment.

Teasing? It's not like it was an apple tree in the middle of a desert. It was one tree in a garden of abundance...it was one measly law, big deal. It's doubtful they would've gave it much consideration at all. You even agree that they were "entrapped" which by definition means to induce someone to commit a crime they'd otherwise wouldn't commit.

Furthermore, God didn't tempt anyone, so this idea of "entrapment" is a bit of a stretch.

wolfriverjoe

I'm far, far more rejecting the creation myth as told in the Bible than rejecting God.

At what point do you stop rejecting and start believing?

wolfriverjoe

As I progressed through this life and my spirituality and beliefs changed and evolved, I realized that modern religion is entirely about power and control..

I don't necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's entirely about power and control. I'm sure that with a bit of objectivity one can find both a positive and negative perspective - as with anything.

I don't particularly subscribe to "Big Religion" whether it's Catholocism, or mega church Evangelism. There will always be extremes so obviously it's important to find a healthy medium. I've found it most beneficial to gather with smaller close nit groups of like minded believers where our focus has nothing to do with money, power, control, politics - whatever. I may attend various churches at times for a different perspective or to gain more insight into scripture, but for the most part it's about sacrifice and service to others so as to be a positive influence in their lives. That's primarily what the life of Christ has taught me through scripture, and therefore have no need to disregard it.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 640]

Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

As with a lot of subjects, perception is reality.

You can't believe in an entity unless you want to.

If you want to, you probably need to.

If it makes you feel better about yourself and life, good for you. ( not You you, just the understood you)

If it helps you be sober and have some semblance of control in your life, and don't think you could survive without it, great, sounds like good mental medicine.

The line exists when your ideology is forced on others; atheism, Christianity, Islam, whatever your flavor is.

The worst possible doctrine in any religion is a catch 22, though.

The worst possible doctrine is that you must try to convert others to your way.

It's just stupid that every religion departs from faith and uses guilt and pressure to make the flock sell the wares of the church, and line its pockets with greed begotten funds.

Think, Joel Olsteen as an example.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,271]

Quote

Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Well, no. If you proposed a god that didn't build a default damnation into the system then I wouldn't say he was a cunt. At least not on that subject, anyway.

What you don't get is that no-one's looking for excuses to dislike the Christian gods that you or Ron believe in. I have no need to dislike them, they don't exist. The reason I dislike them is that the way you guys present them they sound like really nasty pieces of work.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,271]

Quote

The tempter blames the cops and calls them "a bunch of cunts out to get people."

Yeah, because the cops created the entrapped person and implanted him with the desire to steal cars.

Great analogy bro.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Well, no. If you proposed a god that didn't build a default damnation into the system then I wouldn't say he was a cunt. At least not on that subject, anyway.

What you don't get is that no-one's looking for excuses to dislike the Christian gods that you or Ron believe in. I have no need to dislike them, they don't exist. The reason I dislike them is that the way you guys present them they sound like really nasty pieces of work.

Again, we are back in the realm of modern interpretation.

Just because he smote people in the past, God can change, Rocky said it best, "if I can change, and you can change, we can all change."

You know, a child being born is very influential, especially when they get sucked out with a suction tube and forceps.

Oh My Effen Gawd . . . I believe we have the answer.

The second coming was prevented by abortion.

That is why the stock market is fluctuating.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

As with a lot of subjects, perception is reality.

You can't believe in an entity unless you want to.

If you want to, you probably need to.

If it makes you feel better about yourself and life, good for you. ( not You you, just the understood you)

If it helps you be sober and have some semblance of control in your life, and don't think you could survive without it, great, sounds like good mental medicine.

The line exists when your ideology is forced on others; atheism, Christianity, Islam, whatever your flavor is.

The worst possible doctrine in any religion is a catch 22, though.

The worst possible doctrine is that you must try to convert others to your way.

It's just stupid that every religion departs from faith and uses guilt and pressure to make the flock sell the wares of the church, and line its pockets with greed begotten funds.

Think, Joel Olsteen as an example.

Don't you really love the doctrine that if you want wealth from god you have to make his pastor wealthy first???

"The Lord has told me I need to new private jet to minister to the flock. Please make your donations to http://www.fleecedflock.com

[RonD1120 58]

turtlespeed

***Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

As with a lot of subjects, perception is reality.

You can't believe in an entity unless you want to.

If you want to, you probably need to.

If it makes you feel better about yourself and life, good for you. ( not You you, just the understood you)

If it helps you be sober and have some semblance of control in your life, and don't think you could survive without it, great, sounds like good mental medicine.

The line exists when your ideology is forced on others; atheism, Christianity, Islam, whatever your flavor is.

The worst possible doctrine in any religion is a catch 22, though.

The worst possible doctrine is that you must try to convert others to your way.

It's just stupid that every religion departs from faith and uses guilt and pressure to make the flock sell the wares of the church, and line its pockets with greed begotten funds.

Think, Joel Olsteen as an example.

Really, the only take away I want for you at this point is this. When you get your back against the wall and you are overwhelmed with anger, fear, depression, guilt or some other negative emotion remember Jesus is always there for you with love and grace.

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. When Jesus is all that you have, you'll find that Jesus is all that you need.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

RonD1120

******Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

As with a lot of subjects, perception is reality.

You can't believe in an entity unless you want to.

If you want to, you probably need to.

If it makes you feel better about yourself and life, good for you. ( not You you, just the understood you)

If it helps you be sober and have some semblance of control in your life, and don't think you could survive without it, great, sounds like good mental medicine.

The line exists when your ideology is forced on others; atheism, Christianity, Islam, whatever your flavor is.

The worst possible doctrine in any religion is a catch 22, though.

The worst possible doctrine is that you must try to convert others to your way.

It's just stupid that every religion departs from faith and uses guilt and pressure to make the flock sell the wares of the church, and line its pockets with greed begotten funds.

Think, Joel Olsteen as an example.

Really, the only take away I want for you at this point is this. When you get your back against the wall and you are overwhelmed with anger, fear, depression, guilt or some other negative emotion remember Jesus is always there for you with love and grace.

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. When Jesus is all that you have, you'll find that Jesus is all that you need.

Jesus isn't taking care of my credit card debt any time soon.

[normiss 640]

It's part of his plan

[kallend 1,672]

jakee

Quote

Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Well, no. If you proposed a god that didn't build a default damnation into the system then I wouldn't say he was a cunt. At least not on that subject, anyway.

In my life I've had more rewarding interactions with cunts than from any god. A lot more.

(That would be literal, not metaphorical).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

RonD1120

******Start believing?

When someone has a single shred of evidence.

As with a lot of subjects, perception is reality.

You can't believe in an entity unless you want to.

If you want to, you probably need to.

If it makes you feel better about yourself and life, good for you. ( not You you, just the understood you)

If it helps you be sober and have some semblance of control in your life, and don't think you could survive without it, great, sounds like good mental medicine.

The line exists when your ideology is forced on others; atheism, Christianity, Islam, whatever your flavor is.

The worst possible doctrine in any religion is a catch 22, though.

The worst possible doctrine is that you must try to convert others to your way.

It's just stupid that every religion departs from faith and uses guilt and pressure to make the flock sell the wares of the church, and line its pockets with greed begotten funds.

Think, Joel Olsteen as an example.

Really, the only take away I want for you at this point is this. When you get your back against the wall and you are overwhelmed with anger, fear, depression, guilt or some other negative emotion remember Jesus is always there for you with love and grace.

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. When Jesus is all that you have, you'll find that Jesus is all that you need.

And like Ben kanobi said to Luke . . . It true , from a certain point of view.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

Start believing?

Ya, some of those who believe in God reject much of the bible...I was just asking at what point did he actually start to believe.

Some reject the creation story - "that's ridiculous..."

The same people reject Jonah and the whale - "That's absurd..."

They reject Noah's Arc - "That's Perposterous!"

Jesus rises from the dead - "Ah yes, finally - that makes more sense..."

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Quote

The tempter blames the cops and calls them "a bunch of cunts out to get people."

Yeah, because the cops created the entrapped person and implanted him with the desire to steal cars.

Great analogy bro.

I'm not the one who brought up the cop entrapment analogy...this was just an illustration to show how silly it was.

btw, God did not create people with the desire to reject Him as much as it was a choice...there's a difference.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 640]

I can not understand how a missing body was proof of anything other than theft.

[raftman 12]

Or he was a zombie!

[wolfriverjoe 1,366]

Coreeece

***I'm far, far more rejecting the creation myth as told in the Bible than rejecting God.

At what point do you stop rejecting and start believing?

wolfriverjoe

As I progressed through this life and my spirituality and beliefs changed and evolved, I realized that modern religion is entirely about power and control..

I don't necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's entirely about power and control. I'm sure that with a bit of objectivity one can find both a positive and negative perspective - as with anything.



Well, it's far more of a "Stop believing and start rejecting."

I was brought up religious. I never really questioned what I was taught.
And then I started thinking for myself. Asking questions and looking for answers that were more than "because that's what the bible says."

And the harder I looked the less I found.

And modern religion is power and control. From the TV evangelicals who need people to send money so that the preacher can buy a jet to "spread the word of the Lord faster."
To the Saudi Wahabi to the Iranian government to the Vatican.

Individual religion is usually about fear of the unknown. What happens after we die? What is the purpose of life? Who is in charge?

The idea that the answers to these questions are "Nothing, nothing other than what we make of it, and nobody" is something some people simply cannot accept.
The idea that we are here by blind chance, infinitesimal specs on an infinitesimal rock in a very, very tiny star system in a galaxy that is only one of an almost infinite number of galaxies in the universe is something a lot of people simply cannot wrap their heads around (Total Perspective Vortex, anyone?).

So they make up this omniscient, everpresent entity that "watches over them" and has a plan to counter those fears.

Plus, the "reward and punishment" of a God was probably a necessary survival trait for early civilizations.

It's kind of interesting that every civilization had a "God" of some sorts. Usually with a "creation myth" that explained how the world was created. These stories were either passed down for so long that nobody knew how they started or were "revealed" to the holy men (who were usually in charge - go figure).

And unless they were derived from another, they are all different

You'd think that if God was real, he wouldn't play the rather nasty trick of telling every different civilization a different story.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 1,672]

wolfriverjoe

It's kind of interesting that every civilization had a "God" of some sorts. Usually with a "creation myth" that explained how the world was created. These stories were either passed down for so long that nobody knew how they started or were "revealed" to the holy men (who were usually in charge - go figure).

And unless they were derived from another, they are all different

You'd think that if God was real, he wouldn't play the rather nasty trick of telling every different civilization a different story.

"Turtles all the way down" is as reasonable an explanation as any other creation myth.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***

It's kind of interesting that every civilization had a "God" of some sorts. Usually with a "creation myth" that explained how the world was created. These stories were either passed down for so long that nobody knew how they started or were "revealed" to the holy men (who were usually in charge - go figure).

And unless they were derived from another, they are all different

You'd think that if God was real, he wouldn't play the rather nasty trick of telling every different civilization a different story.

"Turtles all the way down" is as reasonable an explanation as any other creation myth.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

wolfriverjoe

***

***I'm far, far more rejecting the creation myth as told in the Bible than rejecting God.

At what point do you stop rejecting and start believing?

wolfriverjoe

As I progressed through this life and my spirituality and beliefs changed and evolved, I realized that modern religion is entirely about power and control..

I don't necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's entirely about power and control. I'm sure that with a bit of objectivity one can find both a positive and negative perspective - as with anything.



Well, it's far more of a "Stop believing and start rejecting."

Not that it matters, but over the years I've always been unclear as to what your position is. In this thread you've stated that your spiritual beliefs have evolved...that you far more reject the creation story than you do God. You also bring up the idea later in this post that there is "nobody" in control.

This confusion leads be to believe you might be agnostic... if so, what is it that's holding you back from straight-up atheistic rejection of God?

wolfriverjoe

I was brought up religious. I never really questioned what I was taught.

I was "raised" Catholic, went to a Catholic school...not very religious tho - Maybe we would go to church, maybe not... I'd say I believed in God, but He always seemed to be put on the back burner of my mind...nothing very practical/applicable. By the beginning of my adult life I probably would've related to agnosticism if I actually even cared to consider it at the time.

wolfriverjoe

And then I started thinking for myself. Asking questions and looking for answers that were more than "because that's what the bible says."

And the harder I looked the less I found.

Catholicism and the bible didn't really make much sense to me. I didn't understand, neither did I care. As time progressed, I'd say I grew more contemptuous of religion.

After some pretty traumatic experiences, nothing made sense anymore. I felt that perhaps maybe I missed something. I felt that now that I'm a bit older, maybe I can re-evaluate this Christianity thing and make sense of it.

The harder I looked, the more I understood.

wolfriverjoe

And modern religion is power and control. From the TV evangelicals who need people to send money so that the preacher can buy a jet to "spread the word of the Lord faster."
To the Saudi Wahabi to the Iranian government to the Vatican.

Probably very true...but that really has nothing to do with me and my faith in God. I heard Hitler ate sugar once, but I'm still pretty fond of cookies.

wolfriverjoe

Individual religion is usually about fear of the unknown. What happens after we die? What is the purpose of life? Who is in charge?

Usually it begins when looking at creation - it's beauty and organization that inherently point to a creator. From that comes an appreciation and respect for the one who's given us life. The next question would be how is one to live in light of this realization?

I've found the life of Christ to be the perfect example of this. I don't think there is anything more noble than sacrificing your life for another person - and I don't necessarily mean by physically dying.

wolfriverjoe

It's kind of interesting that every civilization had a "God" of some sorts. Usually with a "creation myth" that explained how the world was created.

It's most likely because the belief in God through creation is an inherent human characteristic. It's also probably the reason why some agnostics will never crossover to atheism...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour