More mass shootings

[BIGUN 1,105]

Wendy,

You are correct about my having taken action. I met with candidate Coleman in person. As you know Bridenstine left. Coleman is a combat vet and we had a good talk two Saturday's ago. He was receptive, but not commited. But, I knew it would be a tough sell in this State. We agreed to get back together should he win. Unfortunately, he did not. I'm going to wait to see who wins and then have a sit down with them. Even my conservative mind doesn't understand how we can have a national registry for vehicles, but not weapons.I remember a time when one got pulled over and the popo would simply ask, " Where's your gun?" In the pocket behind the passenger's seat. Thank you. Please keep your hands on the wheel. Am I wrong for thinking that if we had a national transportation security act not unlike Texas where citizens could carry in their vehicles with a national registry tied to the vehicle... tensions might reduce on all sides.

I said, BAN BAN BAN because that seems to be the liberal chant and it's not working. And, I agree that a more formal name might be conducive than even gun control.

Yoink, my apologies if I misread your post.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kallend 1,678]

BIGUN

Wendy,



I said, BAN BAN BAN because that seems to be the liberal chant .

No, it is not. I am a liberal and know a lot of liberals and I don't know a single one who seriously proposes an outright ban. That would take a constitutional amendment which even liberals know is not going to happen.

Most want a more rigorous background check, no legal way to avoid it with a national database, and far greater penalties for violators. In fact I suspect you would be OK with that (and, of course, the details need to be worked out).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

BIGUN

Wendy,

Yoink, my apologies if I misread your post.

No worries. I'm as frustrated as you about the desire for action but the lack of effort to do anything - even to have a reasonable dialogue.

FWIW I received a nice letter back from senator Feinstein (or more likely one of her clerks!) thanking me for my suggestion and asking for some more thoughts on how I'd approach the issues with it that I noted.
That's currently a work in progress.

[BIGUN 1,105]

kallend

***Wendy,

I said, BAN BAN BAN because that seems to be the liberal chant .

No, it is not. I am a liberal and know a lot of liberals and I don't know a single one who seriously proposes an outright ban. That would take a constitutional amendment which even liberals know is not going to happen.

Most want a more rigorous background check, no legal way to avoid it with a national database, and far greater penalties for violators. In fact I suspect you would be OK with that (and, of course, the details need to be worked out).

I will concede that you're one of the few (of either side) who gets it. I was referring to the chants in this thread of BAN Assault Rifles!!! Whereas, you interpreted it as all guns. My bad.

On that, you have for years tried to convince your tribe that it can't happen (complete ban) due to SCOTUS and 2nd amendment rights - because you get it and we agree on this point. My tribe, for that matter, seems to think that a national registry is nothing more than a tool for big gubmint to at some point roll up to your door with a list of what guns you have and demand you surrender them.

While at the same time; will quickly register and pay the tax on any type of newest machine gun or silencer just to be the cool kid in the neighborhood.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

I was referring to the chants in this thread of BAN Assault Rifles!!!

Are you suggesting that we should relax the rules on fully automatic rifles (i.e., assault rifles)?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BIGUN 1,105]

Not even closely.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

Not even closely.

Then why would you portray others who share that view as unreasonable?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BIGUN 1,105]

Ok. So, you kinda commingled machine guns with assault rifles. Don't know if that was your intention.

Machine guns are assault rifles.
When the liberals chant BAN BAN BAN... they usually mean the AR-15 demon.

Here's my point. Billy Joe Bob will run out and get the latest machine gun or silencer, do the ATF registration and pay the tax.
So, on one hand we have an opportunity to explain that a national registry is no different than what your doing with true assault weapons.

On the other hand; when liberals holler ban! There's a type of reactance theory that occurs. The NRA has fodder to feed it's masses, the bubba's rile up with everything from the gubmint ain't gonna tell us what to do to we'll just make our own (look up ATF manufacturers license).

And in the end, things quite down till the next time. The only course that will work is for the liberals to educate on the proposed solutions shared earlier this year. But, that's not going to happen. The few replies received were disappointing. Liberals not even recognizing their own agenda.

Brother, I'm no less than over this circular discussion. It's all about arguing and not about solutions.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

Ok. So, you kinda commingled machine guns with assault rifles.

Assault rifle = fully automatic
Assault weapon = military form factor, e.g., AR-15.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

***Ok. So, you kinda commingled machine guns with assault rifles.

Assault rifle = fully automatic
Assault weapon = military form factor, e.g., AR-15.

So you were than calling the Brownings BAR sporting rifles assault weapons?

http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/bar/current-production.html

Got admit that’s the first time I’ve seen that tap dance done.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,105]

jcd11235

***Ok. So, you kinda commingled machine guns with assault rifles.

Assault rifle = fully automatic
Assault weapon = military form factor, e.g., AR-15.

Assault Rifle = a fully automatic or selective fire rate firearm (semi to fully), e.g., M-16, MP-5, UZI.

Sport Rifle = single shot (semi), e.g., AR-15, Winchester lever actions, bolt-action .308, 30-06, etc.

Assault Weapon = Term created for the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban," which banned firearms based on appearance, brand name, and features to describe civilian semiautomatic firearms with a military or fearsome appearance, yet no more lethality than lesser weapons. The term has no industry or military definition. It was created to give a single name to all of the firearms politicians wanted to ban in 1994. Opponents of the 1994 ban refer to it more accurately as the "Semi-Auto" ban.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), officially the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law, which included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms that were defined as assault weapons.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Bob_Church 7]

BIGUN

******Ok. So, you kinda commingled machine guns with assault rifles.

Assault rifle = fully automatic
Assault weapon = military form factor, e.g., AR-15.

Assault Rifle = a fully automatic or selective fire rate firearm (semi to fully), e.g., M-16, MP-5, UZI.

Sport Rifle = single shot (semi), e.g., AR-15, Winchester lever actions, bolt-action .308, 30-06, etc.

Assault Weapon = Term created for the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban," which banned firearms based on appearance, brand name, and features to describe civilian semiautomatic firearms with a military or fearsome appearance, yet no more lethality than lesser weapons. The term has no industry or military definition. It was created to give a single name to all of the firearms politicians wanted to ban in 1994. Opponents of the 1994 ban refer to it more accurately as the "Semi-Auto" ban.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), officially the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law, which included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms that were defined as assault weapons.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

And in one of the worst coincidences ever the Armalite Rifle-15 is referred to as the AR-15.
I've met very few people who aren't convinced that the AR stands for Assault Rifle.

[DJL 232]

These conversations about how the weapons are defined are pretty pointless except to lay the claim that people who are against weapons that can inflict the most damage don't understand the particulars of the weapons we're talking about.

Yes, a Browning BAR sport rifle can fit into the definitions when we say "assault rifle" or "assault weapon". Just as something having the scary accessory racks doesn't make it an assault rifle/weapon, a semi-auto BAR (depending on how it's chambered) not having them doesn't mean it can't fire at a trigger-pull rate with a 10 round clip with a round equal to or more powerful than an M-16.

A semi-auto weapon is not necessarily less useful than a weapon with a fully-auto or three-round burst setting. Didn't they go to three round because they realized soldiers weren't putting bullets on target? And some of you who have served in combat please chime in as to the realistic value between fully auto, 3-round, semi-auto when it comes to using the weapon to take out people.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BIGUN 1,105]

DJL

These conversations about how the weapons are defined are pretty pointless except to lay the claim that people who are against weapons that can inflict the most damage don't understand the particulars of the weapons we're talking about.

Don't give up on my post because I have to vent first. Herein lies the issue with the right's resistance to the left's we're scared and we want to do something, anything that makes us feel warm and fuzzy without talking to the experts. And, the reason for the 1994 insanity. So, at the end, I'm going to make it really easy.

Quote

Yes, a Browning BAR sport rifle can fit into the definitions when we say "assault rifle" or "assault weapon". Just as something having the scary accessory racks doesn't make it an assault rifle/weapon, a semi-auto BAR (depending on how it's chambered) not having them doesn't mean it can't fire at a trigger-pull rate with a 10 round clip with a round equal to or more powerful than an M-16.

Lot of words, but again, you're all over the board.

Quote

A semi-auto weapon is not necessarily less useful than a weapon with a fully-auto or three-round burst setting. Didn't they go to three round because they realized soldiers weren't putting bullets on target? And some of you who have served in combat please chime in as to the realistic value between fully auto, 3-round, semi-auto when it comes to using the weapon to take out people.

None of this matters. NONE of it. The military teaches all three based on situational factors. When to use single shot, when to use three round bursts, when to go full auto (we're talking standard M-16ish military weapons.)

So now, this is where you should focus. I'm sitting in a nice dark poker room with a few of my liberal buddies (you guys) and the conversation is the usual gun control shit. I'm not saying anything as I listen to all the non-expert we need to ban rhetoric surrounding empty and proven useless legislation. Then, somebody leans over and says, "So, if you were a liberal how would you handle it?"

That's easy. I'd make the legislative line of demarcation as ban Gas-Chambered weapons and allow no restrictions on Bolt-Action.

"Why whatever do you mean, Mr. Maverick, sir?"

Gas-Chambered - Basically, some of the expanding gas from a fired round is diverted from the barrel and used to thrust the bolt assembly rearward, ejecting the spent cartridge and stripping a fresh round off the magazine into the chamber on the return. NOTE: these are the easiest for the layman to add bump stocks, 3 round burst kits, little parts that someone with a little bit of machine shop knowledge could use to create a small device to slip over the internal side of the selector switch which when rotated carves over the sear and makes it fully auto. Those gas chambered weapons look like THESE.

Bolt-Action - is a type of firearm action where the handling of cartridges into and out of the weapon's barrel chamber are operated by manually manipulating the bolt directly via a handle, which is most commonly placed on the right-hand side of the weapon (as most users are right-handed). When the handle is operated, the bolt is unlocked from the receiver and pulled back to open the breech, allowing the spent cartridge case to be extracted and ejected... Those bolt action weapons look like THESE. Sidebar: This is why your third point is moot. Take a look at the left side of the page. See all the different calibers? The .22 Long-rifle is famous for being used to teach farm/ranch kids how to shoot critters. And, then you have the awesomeness of the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO. A favorite among big game hunters and a long time sniper round. Here's the rub. Given the "situation" that .22 LR may be more effective in the hands of someone well trained; than that of the .308 in the hands of a winter-time game hunter.

Gas Chambered vs. Bolt Action - This video will depict the difference between the gas & bolt weapons. Keep in mind; these gentlemen are Special Forces Weapons Experts with advanced training in target interdiction (sniper school) using standard non-modified gas & bolts. The gas one is your "scary" one that probably has a selector switch that is set to "single" but can be flipped up to "auto."

In summary - if I were a tree-hugging liberal, gentlemen; I'd go for the legislation that proposes to ban gas-chambered rifles. Now, let's go back to playing some poker. Someone check on Rush. He's seems to have passed out. And, could someone pass me a beer, please.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DanG 1]

That's a good distinction. I assume you meant to include the distinction of long guns vs pistols. Good luck trying to ban gas action pistols.

- Dan G

[BIGUN 1,105]

Quote

I assume you meant to include the distinction of long guns vs pistols.

Not Really. As it's mostly the evil scary looking AR-15 type rifles that makes the Dems need a wipey.

Quote

Good luck trying to ban gas action pistols.

Smartass.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JoeWeber 2,346]

BIGUN

***These conversations about how the weapons are defined are pretty pointless except to lay the claim that people who are against weapons that can inflict the most damage don't understand the particulars of the weapons we're talking about.

Don't give up on my post because I have to vent first. Herein lies the issue with the right's resistance to the left's we're scared and we want to do something, anything that makes us feel warm and fuzzy without talking to the experts. And, the reason for the 1994 insanity. So, at the end, I'm going to make it really easy.

Quote

Yes, a Browning BAR sport rifle can fit into the definitions when we say "assault rifle" or "assault weapon". Just as something having the scary accessory racks doesn't make it an assault rifle/weapon, a semi-auto BAR (depending on how it's chambered) not having them doesn't mean it can't fire at a trigger-pull rate with a 10 round clip with a round equal to or more powerful than an M-16.

Lot of words, but again, you're all over the board.

Quote

A semi-auto weapon is not necessarily less useful than a weapon with a fully-auto or three-round burst setting. Didn't they go to three round because they realized soldiers weren't putting bullets on target? And some of you who have served in combat please chime in as to the realistic value between fully auto, 3-round, semi-auto when it comes to using the weapon to take out people.

None of this matters. NONE of it. The military teaches all three based on situational factors. When to use single shot, when to use three round bursts, when to go full auto (we're talking standard M-16ish military weapons.)

So now, this is where you should focus. I'm sitting in a nice dark poker room with a few of my liberal buddies (you guys) and the conversation is the usual gun control shit. I'm not saying anything as I listen to all the non-expert we need to ban rhetoric surrounding empty and proven useless legislation. Then, somebody leans over and says, "So, if you were a liberal how would you handle it?"

That's easy. I'd make the legislative line of demarcation as ban Gas-Chambered weapons and allow no restrictions on Bolt-Action.

"Why whatever do you mean, Mr. Maverick, sir?"

Gas-Chambered - Basically, some of the expanding gas from a fired round is diverted from the barrel and used to thrust the bolt assembly rearward, ejecting the spent cartridge and stripping a fresh round off the magazine into the chamber on the return. NOTE: these are the easiest for the layman to add bump stocks, 3 round burst kits, little parts that someone with a little bit of machine shop knowledge could use to create a small device to slip over the internal side of the selector switch which when rotated carves over the sear and makes it fully auto. Those gas chambered weapons look like THESE.

Bolt-Action - is a type of firearm action where the handling of cartridges into and out of the weapon's barrel chamber are operated by manually manipulating the bolt directly via a handle, which is most commonly placed on the right-hand side of the weapon (as most users are right-handed). When the handle is operated, the bolt is unlocked from the receiver and pulled back to open the breech, allowing the spent cartridge case to be extracted and ejected... Those bolt action weapons look like THESE. Sidebar: This is why your third point is moot. Take a look at the left side of the page. See all the different calibers? The .22 Long-rifle is famous for being used to teach farm/ranch kids how to shoot critters. And, then you have the awesomeness of the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO. A favorite among big game hunters and a long time sniper round. Here's the rub. Given the "situation" that .22 LR may be more effective in the hands of someone well trained; than that of the .308 in the hands of a winter-time game hunter.

Gas Chambered vs. Bolt Action - This video will depict the difference between the gas & bolt weapons. Keep in mind; these gentlemen are Special Forces Weapons Experts with advanced training in target interdiction (sniper school) using standard non-modified gas & bolts. The gas one is your "scary" one that probably has a selector switch that is set to "single" but can be flipped up to "auto."

In summary - if I were a tree-hugging liberal, gentlemen; I'd go for the legislation that proposes to ban gas-chambered rifles. Now, let's go back to playing some poker. Someone check on Rush. He's seems to have passed out. And, could someone pass me a beer, please.


Holy Crap! Would I need to give up my Beretta Tactical? Maybe I'm not a Liberal.

[DJL 232]

I do understand the difference between gas chambered and bolt action. I have one of each.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

Lol, bolt action pistols. I'm not even sure how that would work.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BartsDaddy 4]

They already exist

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[DJL 232]

BartsDaddy

They already exist

Probably not very popular with the liquor store robbery crowd.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BIGUN 1,105]

The discussion was rifles.
Your Beretta may be gas operated, but its a shotgun and its owned by a liberal.
Liberals don't shoot anyone.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[yoink 321]

DJL

Lol, bolt action pistols. I'm not even sure how that would work.

Bring back muzzle-loading pistols - That'll cut down on the carnage!

[BIGUN 1,105]

DJL

I do understand the difference between gas chambered and bolt action. I have one of each.

Awesome! Are they registered?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JoeWeber 2,346]

BIGUN

The discussion was rifles.
Your Beretta may be gas operated, but its a shotgun and its owned by a liberal.
Liberals don't shoot anyone.

Then I support your proposal. I'll be hiding my grenade launcher, though.