More mass shootings

[billvon 2,402]

31 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

How many were actually from lawfully owned guns?

How many had alcohol involved?

I think Alcohol is a larger problem.

We should ban alcohol.

I don't think we should ban alcohol, or guns, or abortion.  You may think differently; that's fine.

[Coreece 190]

 

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

6 hours ago, kallend said:

They're just collateral damage, of no importance if you need a gun to feel safe. 

And, sometimes I feel conflicted arguing about the deaths of children by guns to a group that believes in abortion. 

They're just collateral damage, of no importance for just one impetuous moment of pleasure.

[gowlerk 1,915]

13 minutes ago, Coreece said:

They're just collateral damage, of no importance for just one impetuous moment of pleasure.

Once again. A fetus is NOT a child. If it was then a miscarriage is a death. A fetus has never in the history of the world been a person. No matter what your emotions tell you.

[billvon 2,402]

18 minutes ago, Coreece said:

 

They're just collateral damage, of no importance for just one impetuous moment of pleasure.

It's a little ironic that in another thread you just had yourself a little rant about stereotyping people here.

[Coreece 190]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

19 minutes ago, Coreece said:

They're just collateral damage, of no importance for just one impetuous moment of pleasure.

Once again. A fetus is NOT a child. If it was then a miscarriage is a death. A fetus has never in the history of the world been a person. No matter what your emotions tell you.

It's probably the vacuum that painfully rips apart the human offspring limb by limb from the woman's vagina that many people find troubling.

[Coreece 190]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

23 minutes ago, Coreece said:

 

They're just collateral damage, of no importance for just one impetuous moment of pleasure.

It's a little ironic that in another thread you just had yourself a little rant about stereotyping people here.

I was simply demonstrating the ineffectiveness of Kallend-style comments like this.

[gowlerk 1,915]

Just now, Coreece said:

It's probably the vacuum that painfully rips apart the human offspring limb by limb from the woman's vagina that many people find troubling.

You are projecting your feelings in a way that is not supported by facts. Again, a fetus is not a child. Study some anatomy and human development before stating incorrect and over wrought exaggerations. Abortions are unpleasant, and there is reason for those who choose one to suffer. There is no reason for you to presume to make judgements on other people based on your gut feelings.

[Coreece 190]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Study some anatomy and human development before stating incorrect and over wrought exaggerations.

Though there are different stages and methods for abortion, how is the method I described incorrect?

[gowlerk 1,915]

9 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Though there are different stages and methods for abortion, how is the method I described incorrect?

In your overwrought and emotion use of the word painfully. Again, a fetus is not a person. You can project your feelings onto one, but you can not show that any pain, other than the woman's pain, is real.

[Coreece 190]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You can project your feelings onto one, but you can not show that any pain, other than the woman's pain, is real.

I'm sure that's what you want to believe.

[normiss 622]

36 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You are projecting your feelings in a way that is not supported by facts. Again, a fetus is not a child. Study some anatomy and human development before stating incorrect and over wrought exaggerations. Abortions are unpleasant, and there is reason for those who choose one to suffer. There is no reason for you to presume to make judgements on other people based on your gut feelings.

It's somewhat laughable that he thinks a zygote or embryo is in a woman's vagina.

So much false projection.

 

[Coreece 190]

4 minutes ago, normiss said:

It's somewhat laughable that he thinks a zygote or embryo is in a woman's vagina.

That's fine if you have to lie about it.  I never really held you to a much higher standard anyway.

[normiss 622]

12 minutes ago, Coreece said:

That's fine if you have to lie about it.  I never really held you to a much higher standard anyway.

The lie is in your comments, not mine.

Given the standards you display here, thank you!

[Coreece 190]

Just now, normiss said:

The lie is in your comments

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

It appears my use of "vagina" has provoked you.

The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

That makes about as much sense as banning sex. Without sex there would be no dead children. Problem solved. Your habit of distraction and changing the subject may entertain you, but it contributes nothing of value.

Nice side track - 

Can you answer the questions - or are the stats and details unimportant?

[BIGUN 1,059]

3 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Agreed. It is hard to argue with people who are for banning abortions while at the same time arguing that banning guns doesn't work.

I accept your offer. My side will agree to unconditionally ban guns and your side will agree to unconditionally ban abortions, 

Edited June 12, 2019 by BIGUN
spelling

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

In your overwrought and emotion use of the word painfully. Again, a fetus is not a person. You can project your feelings onto one, but you can not show that any pain, other than the woman's pain, is real.

A dog is not human either - yet they feel pain.

[billvon 2,402]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

A dog is not human either - yet they feel pain.

Right.  And a person in a vegetative state is human - but doesn't feel pain.  In general we are OK with "killing them" (withdrawing life support.)

[gowlerk 1,915]

17 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

A dog is not human either - yet they feel pain.

So, the mass shooting thread and the stupid firearm accident thread have both turned hard into the abortion debate. I will note that there are no women posting about it one way or the other today. I for one am not going to post anymore about the subject of my opposition to forced birth in either of these threads. (At least not this week.) Feel free to start a forced birth thread.

Edited June 12, 2019 by gowlerk

[SkyDekker 1,128]

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I accept your offer. My side will agree to unconditionally ban guns and your side will agree to unconditionally ban abortions, 

It appears you didn't read the rest of my post. I don't think banning either is good.

[DJL 232]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

It appears my use of "vagina" has provoked you.

The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

In case I'm missing the joke, we all know that fetuses do not develop in the vagina, right?

[turtlespeed 212]

12 minutes ago, billvon said:

Right.  And a person in a vegetative state is human - but doesn't feel pain.  In general we are OK with "killing them" (withdrawing life support.)

In general - it is simply letting them die of their own devices.

I don't believe a vacuum is used to remove the brain tissue when life support was removed.

Taking someone off life support doesnt entail the use of forceps to pull a body or tissue mass out of you. 

Plastic tubes - probably.  IV devices - probably.  Your liver?  I don't think so.

[DJL 232]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

In general - it is simply letting them die of their own devices.

I don't believe a vacuum is used to remove the brain tissue when life support was removed.

Taking someone off life support doesnt entail the use of forceps to pull a body or tissue mass out of you. 

Plastic tubes - probably.  IV devices - probably.  Your liver?  I don't think so.

This forum is really in need of the facts as to how abortions are performed and why they're performed that way at various stages.

[SkyDekker 1,128]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

In general - it is simply letting them die of their own devices.

I don't believe a vacuum is used to remove the brain tissue when life support was removed.

Taking someone off life support doesnt entail the use of forceps to pull a body or tissue mass out of you. 

Plastic tubes - probably.  IV devices - probably.  Your liver?  I don't think so.

So you would be ok with just cutting the umbilical cord and letting the fetus die of their own devices?

[BIGUN 1,059]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Right.  And a person in a vegetative state is human

Bill, it was not my intention to completely derail the Mass Shootings thread, but it seems that's where it wound up. May I suggest a separate and distinct thread for that?