wolfriverjoe 1,340 #501 May 31, 2015 SusliqueThe fact that they pick up single cases and amplify them and make it look as if all Muslims are just like that. This is what i call distortion and manipulation of facts. When u repeat the same thing over and over again it forms a solid stereotype. Hmm I don't agree. US doesn't like vocal critics either, look it up there are plenty of political and social movement prisoners in US. Plus allowing critics doesn't mean dealing with problem, dog barks caravan moves on. Well, it's kind of hard to not judge Muslims in some ways. Counties like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Algeria are all places where male dominated culture is forcing women into subservient roles, and requiring them to hide themselves in their clothes, under sever penalties, including death. The only real thing the have in common is their religion. Other places in the world may treat women less than ideally, but where in the world does that happen by rule of the state that isn't a "Muslim country"? And please show me where (anywhere) in the US that "vocal critics" of the government are being imprisoned for speaking out. I did look it up. There are a few "social justice" types who are got caught committing actual crimes. But that's a long way from using trumped up charges to silence critical voices. Unlike, say, Russia. There's lots to criticize about the US judicial system. The use of jails and prisons to house the mentally ill and the way they are treated is probably the worst thing. But putting people in jail or prison for criticizing the government is one thing the US is pretty good at not doing."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #502 May 31, 2015 wolfriverjoe***The fact that they pick up single cases and amplify them and make it look as if all Muslims are just like that. This is what i call distortion and manipulation of facts. When u repeat the same thing over and over again it forms a solid stereotype. Hmm I don't agree. US doesn't like vocal critics either, look it up there are plenty of political and social movement prisoners in US. Plus allowing critics doesn't mean dealing with problem, dog barks caravan moves on. Well, it's kind of hard to not judge Muslims in some ways. Counties like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Algeria are all places where male dominated culture is forcing women into subservient roles, and requiring them to hide themselves in their clothes, under sever penalties, including death. This issue has already been settled... Suslique said that Hijab is a choice. Billvon said that the U.S requires women to hide their breasts. So there you have it...the U.S is oppressive. Men should have equal opportunity to ogle a woman's chest.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #503 May 31, 2015 Whatever is happening in the countries you have mentioned has nothing to do with original Islamic teachings. Why they are doing it I don't know, we need to have a detailed historical analysis to find the answer I guess. That is why I'm saying don't study Muslims, study Islam Do u think that political prisoners in Russia are jailed like political prisoners?:)) my friend was in prison on trumped up charges back home (I won't mention where "the home" is for security reasons ) he never committed any crimes, all was made up. He was imprisoned for social and political activism and this is a no brainer for those who know him. Not only him, there are acquaintances who got 7-8 years in prison on trumped up charges. They did nothing wrong but they are in prison for "illegal weapon" possession etc. Why? For being politically active. For organising marshes and protests. We all know that but outsiders say "there is no smoke without fire", " they committed real crimes". Here's a handy list of alleged US political prisoners: https://afgj.org/politicalprisonersusa Even without political prisoners US owns off grid prisons like Guantanamo. I mean seriously, every single country has dark side there is no point in arguing about it 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #504 May 31, 2015 Regardless of how far those countries have strayed from "True Islam," they are the face of Islam today. And your list of political prisoners comes from a Pro-Venezuela site. Got a list that comes from someplace that is a little less biased? Many of those people did a lot more than being "politically active." Manning released classified info. That's a crime. Peltier was convicted of killing two FBI agents. When an organization starts killing FBI guys, they've gone beyond "social activism" and someone is going to go to jail. There are some questionable things about his conviction, and it's possible (though I happen to think unlikely) that he wasn't involved in the murders. The Puerto Rican guys were robbing banks. They were doing it to fund their social activism. But again, once you go beyond social activism to serious crimes, you stop being a "political prisoner." If your friends are in prison for "Illegal weapons possession", what did they have? I fully agree about the dark sides of every country, and the way the US created a special category of "Enemy combatants" in order to imprison people they didn't like was despicable. Doing it in US controlled territory in a foreign country is unconscionable also. But those guys weren't imprisoned for political views."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #505 June 1, 2015 [Quote]If your friends are in prison for "Illegal weapons possession", what did they have? Nothing. Knock on the door--arrest without saying single word about the reason or whatever--then they were presented with false allegations behind closed doors and that's it--see u in 7 years. 95% of opposition is in prison. Guys who got illegal possession have never held even toy guns in their hands. Not everyone got IP, some inciting violence, some even treason (those who were active involved in elections). Do you really think that there are no political prisoners in US? Also, do u expect progovernment websites to post that information? But this is simply not realistic. This information is always shared by alternative resources. Google the list of whistleblowers who got imprisoned. They shared a classified information you'd say, yes, but this information contained crimes, human rights violations, etc Well I don't think that Algeria, SA and Yemen represents 2 billion of Muslims in the world:) I think who represents what --is a mistaken approach altogether that leads to generalisations and stereotyping 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #506 June 1, 2015 Was that here in the US? Incitement to violence and treason? And no, I don't believe there are any true "political prisoners" here in the US. There are a lot of people in jail & prison due to prosecutorial & police misconduct, and I'd bet very heavily that there have been more than a few innocents executed. But that is misguided zeal to prosecute "Bad Guys" and get the "criminals off the streets." I don't see any lists of political prisoners (outside of Guantanamo, and that's different) on any neutral human rights sites. Lots of stuff about the mentally ill being imprisoned instead of treated. Lots of stuff about the "For Profit" prisons, insane (and racially biased) drug sentencing and that sort of things. But actual political prisoners who did no violent or criminal acts? Or at least were part of a group that committed that sort of act? (Some of the Black Panthers on that list you linked are probably innocent, but the BP in the 60s was a violent, militant group). I don't think so."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #507 June 1, 2015 wmw999I find it heartbreaking and interesting the degree to which people are willing to define what Christ does, by reading some writings You're referring to the Bible, right? - Or do you have some other source by which you define Christ? wmw999Consider as an example Mother Teresa. It would be hard to say she didn't deserve Gods love, or that she didn't open herself to it. Yet she said that for many years no matter how hard she tried to connect and pray she didn't feel the connection any more. So by that standard, God witholds his love from people who seek it through Christ. Again, I cannot judge the eternal condition of another person's soul regardless of what they may think they feel or not. Many children after being disciplined may have the feeling that their parents hate them. John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. Many people I've known stated that the more they learn of God, the more they recognize their own shortcomings...this could be a rather unpleasant and humbling experience. It may even leave one in despair as if there is no hope: Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #508 June 1, 2015 I see. No, not in the US 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #509 June 1, 2015 Suslique Yada, yada... Well I don't think that Algeria, SA and Yemen represents 2 billion of Muslims in the world:) I think who represents what --is a mistaken approach altogether that leads to generalisations and stereotyping I hate to break it to you, Tastycakes, but the worst that Islam has to offer is directly in line with the example set by Muhammad himself. Even if some of his followers screw up and show the tiniest modicum of decency and integrity, the person they follow was a truly evil sonofabitch by any rational standard, a psychotic pervert of the first order. He was not a 'Prince of Peace' by any wild stretch of the imagination. Whatever its claim to marvelousness, the Koran is less full of sweetness and light than is the Anarchist's Cookbook (notice I didn't go Godwin this time?). Agree with us or die, question us and die, submit or die, kill anyone who disagrees with us, etc,, etc.. Followers of Siddhartha Gautama who commit unspeakable acts of cruelty are acting entirely against the life and teachings of their master. Followers of Muhammad who commit unspeakable acts of cruelty and perversion are but rank amateurs in comparison to their master. Islam is evil. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #510 June 1, 2015 Winsor I don't even read your posts, so don't bother :) ain't nobody has time for that 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #511 June 1, 2015 Suslique Winsor I don't even read your posts, so don't bother :) ain't nobody has time for that Well your missing out on a lot, he's probably the wisest and oldest here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #512 June 1, 2015 Quote oldest exactly my thoughts 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #514 June 1, 2015 normiss Yeah.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #515 June 1, 2015 SusliqueWinsor I don't even read your posts, so don't bother :) ain't nobody has time for that Be advised that I did not post for your benefit. Islam has only a slightly higher survival rate than rabies. The propensity for those infected with said mental malware to blow themselves to smithereens accurately reflects its prognosis. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #516 June 1, 2015 I thought your people respected the elders? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #517 June 1, 2015 Apparently, ain't nobody got time for respect and consideration these days. Everyone is so accepting of other views. We're all fucked. So much hate in this world. yay. Humans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #518 June 1, 2015 cvfd1399I thought your people respected the elders? Cranky old Jews don't get no respect according to Mr. Dangerfield. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #519 June 1, 2015 Hmm I don't agree. US doesn't like vocal critics either, look it up there are plenty of political and social movement prisoners in US. Plus allowing critics doesn't mean dealing with problem, dog barks caravan moves on. ________________________________________________ I was reading your posts and really listening. However with this and other recent comments you've been making you've proven to me that you are just another muslim apologist/propagandist. Either that or you're in extreme denial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #520 June 1, 2015 normiss Apparently, ain't nobody got time for respect and consideration these days. Everyone is so accepting of other views. We're all fucked. So much hate in this world. yay. Humans. i am respecting him by not responding to the patronising nonsense that he writes. winsor, i have old jews in my own family and i love them. surprise surprise. and btw in which sense you all understood my "oldest" joke? what i meant was that it is impossible to talk to someone who considers himself THE oldest and THE wisest, since they made up their minds long time ago. and his posts reflect exactly that. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #521 June 1, 2015 bigbearfng Hmm I don't agree. US doesn't like vocal critics either, look it up there are plenty of political and social movement prisoners in US. Plus allowing critics doesn't mean dealing with problem, dog barks caravan moves on. ________________________________________________ I was reading your posts and really listening. However with this and other recent comments you've been making you've proven to me that you are just another muslim apologist/propagandist. Either that or you're in extreme denial. i can't please everyones taste, i don't try to please anyones taste. i'm expressing my own opinion and thoughts. i did enjoy my conversation about political prisoners in US and elsewhere and i agree with my opponent on this issue. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #522 June 1, 2015 respect and intolerance are constantly entwined these days The message I'm getting is, you respect someone unless they disagree with your perspective while actually returning the favor entirely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #523 June 1, 2015 normissrespect and intolerance are constantly entwined these days The message I'm getting is, you respect someone unless they disagree with your perspective while actually returning the favor entirely. there are plenty of people on this thread who disagree with me on numerous issues yet they are respectful and polite. i don't consider winsor's posts neither respectful nor polite (and he stated clearly that he doesn't respect me), so the best i can do is ignore them. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #524 June 1, 2015 Suslique ***Apparently, ain't nobody got time for respect and consideration these days. Everyone is so accepting of other views. We're all fucked. So much hate in this world. yay. Humans. i am respecting him by not responding to the patronising nonsense that he writes. winsor, i have old jews in my own family and i love them. surprise surprise. and btw in which sense you all understood my "oldest" joke? what i meant was that it is impossible to talk to someone who considers himself THE oldest and THE wisest, since they made up their minds long time ago. and his posts reflect exactly that. You do not appear to be familiar with the work of Rodney Dangerfield. His humor may not be to your taste. My response wast to the post by cvfd1399. Address him with regard to any claims referenced above, since I made none. I am postjudiced regarding Islam. I have studied the history, politics an culture across the Islamic spectrum, and the deeper I delve, the more irrevocably FUBAR it appears. I am cool with a live and let live approach. I am not cool with any culture committed to the demise of me and those I love. Nothing personal. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #525 June 1, 2015 You quoted and replied to my post. Your understanding of 'nothing personal' is also very unique. However you are free to write whatever you want, I'm free to ignore all of that. Since we don't "pick up fly shit out of pepper". 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
