Islam...the religion of peace?

[Suslique 0]

Sometimes u r serious sometimes u are mocking and sarcastic, its hard to see when u want me to answer and when u r just having fun, you know?:)

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[turtlespeed 212]

Suslique

Sometimes u r serious sometimes u are mocking and sarcastic, its hard to see when u want me to answer and when u r just having fun, you know?:)

Gotta keep you on your toes.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Lake of fire basically.

[Coreeece 2]

Sorry, I saw this reply but it's been a busy weekend and forgot to respond...

turtlespeed

What does this mean?

Quote

1 Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

Ah, but then we will see the argument that this is from The Old Testament.

That's not an argument. It IS from the Old testament...and it's not a metaphor.

Now, if you added to that text something like, "God commanded to rape the donkeys," then I might take exception with that...

Please see posts #109 - #162 of this thread...

turtlespeed

Then, just from the book of Mathew:

Quote

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Its a description of Hell. And Hell is...umm Hell. What do you expect will be there? Counselling courses?

turtlespeed

Side note: why "stand up or shut up"? Are you really that angry?

...it's the same treatment we give other believers in my circle when we start to cower away from the harder sayings of Scripture and begin to sugar coat and/or ignore the question.

Sometimes I forget who I'm talking to...and tho it may have seemed like a dickhead move, please remember that I've grown up with muslim friends in the hood and PC isn't our first language....so excuse me if I don't kiss ass like half the people in this thread that apparently have never met a "real" muslim before and feel the need to handle her with kid gloves...

My Catholic elementary/high school is now a Muslim academy....I watched as their class was dismissed. The boys were dressed just like us - white shirt, black pants. They ran out to their cars, blasted some music and drove away like bats out of hell...just like us. I've known a few Muslims that sold weed at the gas station down the block, so I'm assuming it's safe to say that's probably where they were headed....just like us.

15-20 years ago I managed a pizza joint...We had a cool muslim working us...funny as shit - just a good kid. He always got a ride home from another worker, but one day he said his dad was picking him up. I think it was Ramadan...he said his dad was hungry and needed an excuse to get away from the wife and asked if we could make our "employee special" meat lovers pizza to celebrate....

It reminded me of growing up as Catholics who'd order triple cheeseburgers on ash Wednesday and lenten Fridays in protest against the bullshit of religious rule.

The one thing that Jews, Catholics and Muslims have in common is that we're born into a social class/religion that we never personally understood nor accepted.

Of all the commentary that Suslique posted, the one thing stood out to me was this:

"Yes, there is Hell and Heaven in Islam, yes, those who transgress Gods law (including Muslims) will be punished.

This suggests that not everyone born into this religion - or any other religion, Catholic or Jew - will make it based solely on the fact that they were born into it.

(as a side note, this is precisely what John was talking about when speaking to the Jewish religious leaders of the day that you referenced in Matt:3)

Judiasm, Islam and Catholocism are all the same in that it's formally an adherence to law.

Suslique stated that people must regret, ask for Allah's forgiveness and fix their ways. Catholics even go as far to say that you can buy your way into heaven through indulgences...

Christianity is different in that we believe that there is nothing you can possibly do work your way into heaven. To say that you can earn you way is simply just human pride. To say that we can somehow earn our way only displays our ignorance of God's perfection, holiness and glory in grace.

Jews, Catholics, Muslims and legalistic Christians View their deeds/works as a way into heaven, whereas as the heart of christianty looks upon the grace of God to be accepted.

Now, once we've accepted and feel the power of that grace, we should live by the law out of respect for that grace, not as a means of salvation since we are already saved.

To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

Lake of fire basically.

Sounds peaceful, eh?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[winsor 186]

normiss

Lake of fire basically.

Q: Where is Hell or Satan (NOT 'the serpent') mentioned in Torah?

[Stumpy 256]

Coreeece

blah blah blah.....

To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting.

That's some funny shit right there.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[turtlespeed 212]

Stumpy

***blah blah blah.....

To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting.

That's some funny shit right there.

So everyone is going to hell, but the Christians.
Even the Jews, who are, by scripture, the chosen ones.

But

In Islam, everyone not of Islam is going to hell, at least for a while, so between the two of them, we're all going to hell. If that's the case, I'd choose Islam, as there is at least a chance that you might get out.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Suslique 0]

turtlespeed

******blah blah blah.....

To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting.

That's some funny shit right there.


So everyone is going to hell, but the Christians.
Even the Jews, who are, by scripture, the chosen ones.

But

In Islam, everyone not of Islam is going to hell, at least for a while, so between the two of them, we're all going to hell. If that's the case, I'd choose Islam, as there is at least a chance that you might get out.

i just want to say that i don't want to personally compare Islam to any other religion, philosophy, life style or eating habit. to each their own. i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[normiss 622]

Because religion.

[winsor 186]

Suslique

i just want to say that i don't want to personally compare Islam to any other religion, philosophy, life style or eating habit. to each their own. i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

Islam has a lot in with Mormon.

Illiterate 'prophet' with garbled remix of judeo/christian mythology, as transcribed by others? Check.

Said 'prophet' with conduit to the Almighty by means of an 'angel?' Check.

'Prophet' using position to have all the 'wives' he can handle? Check.

It goes on from there. There's a solid commonality with Scientology as well, but at least Elron was literate in his generation of fantasy/nonsense.


BSBD,

Winsor

[Coreeece 2]

Suslique

i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions.

Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 212]

Suslique

*********blah blah blah.....

To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting.

That's some funny shit right there.


So everyone is going to hell, but the Christians.
Even the Jews, who are, by scripture, the chosen ones.

But

In Islam, everyone not of Islam is going to hell, at least for a while, so between the two of them, we're all going to hell. If that's the case, I'd choose Islam, as there is at least a chance that you might get out.

i just want to say that i don't want to personally compare Islam to any other religion, philosophy, life style or eating habit. to each their own. i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

I'm not mocking you or your religion specifically, I do want to clear that up.I appreciate your effort and candor.

That said, religion has been the direct excuse (some would say "cause", but it is the leaders and those who are not mentally strong enough to think for themselves or simply choose not to) for more murder and war than anything, with exception of an asteroid that wiped out most of the dinosaurs.

I would rather not be affiliated with anything that "in XXXXXXXXX's name" is justification for murder. I also don't want to be associated with a group that uses their dogma and doctrine to try to control people while telling them that it is their God given duty to pay a portion of their income to them.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Stoopid god laws prevented me from obtaining a tasty beverage this past Sunday.

One of my worst fears at a restaurant: "Crap, it's Sunday and we're in GEORGIA!".

[turtlespeed 212]

Coreeece

***i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions.

Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin.

Misconceptions about Christian faith, let's try to clear this up. It should be an easy yes or no answer.

The only way to God is through the son, Jesus Christ.

Does that mean that all Muslims are going to hell unless they renounce Islam and are born again?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Convert or die.
Duh.

[Suslique 0]

Coreeece

***i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions.

Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin.

meh. i have a toddler at home and i'm used to answering the same questions over and over and over again and ignore childish trolling as well :D

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Suslique 0]

turtlespeed

I'm not mocking you or your religion specifically, I do want to clear that up.I appreciate your effort and candor.

thanks and thanks:)

love peace and chicken grease

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

******i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions and answer questions about islam that is in my ability and knowledge.

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions.

Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin.

Misconceptions about Christian faith, let's try to clear this up. It should be an easy yes or no answer.

The only way to God is through the son, Jesus Christ.

Does that mean that all Muslims are going to hell unless they renounce Islam and are born again?

I don't think they'll necessarily have to renounce Islam, but I do believe Christ would have to reveal himself for somebody to accept that saving grace. How and when he does this in a persons life, I don't exactly know.

I believe the verse saying judge not, lest ye be judged is talking about not judging the eternal condition of another persons soul...only God knows.

Personally, I'm still not very clear on what hell is exactly, other than that it's separation from God.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

religion has been the direct excuse...for more murder and war than anything

See Suslique, this is a perfect example of what I said in post #438 about clearing up the same misconceptions from the same people over and over.

I addressed turtles misconception about war and religion 3 months ago, but he just ignores it and regurgitates the same crap...


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4708982;search_string=war;#4708982

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[wmw999 2,123]

I find it heartbreaking and interesting the degree to which people are willing to define what Christ does, by reading some writings that were decided as relevant based on the opinions of people well after his life.

Consider as an example Mother Teresa. It would be hard to say she didn't deserve Gods love, or that she didn't open herself to it. Yet she said that for many years no matter how hard she tried to connect and pray she didn't feel the connection any more. So by that standard, God witholds his love from people who seek it through Christ.

Maybe our interpretation of the standard isn't perfect.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[winsor 186]

Baltimore was awash with Muslims of every stripe this weekend, and it was a little icky. It was reminiscent of Klan conventions of the '20s.

The Klan, of course, defines themselves as a 'Civil Rights Organization' (no shit), and they feel every bit as 'misunderstood' as do Muslims.

Maybe Muslims will eventually drift out of the Dark Ages, but I'm not holding my breath.


BSBD,

Winsor

[winsor 186]

wmw999

...Maybe our interpretation of the standard isn't perfect.

Wendy P.

You figure?

[billvon 2,400]

>So everyone is going to hell, but the Christians.

Everyone is going to hell, except the Christians, but the Christians who are Catholic are still going to hell. And the Episcopalians. They are basically Catholic so they are going to hell too.

(Next up - Shi'a vs Sunni)

[Suslique 0]

Coreeece

***religion has been the direct excuse...for more murder and war than anything

See Suslique, this is a perfect example of what I said in post #438 about clearing up the same misconceptions from the same people over and over.

I addressed turtles misconception about war and religion 3 months ago, but he just ignores it and regurgitates the same crap...


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4708982;search_string=war;#4708982

We have different understanding of what " clearing misconceptions" means. To me its explaining (I also discussed this moment earlier in this thread and turtlespeed read that) and leaving it. Clearing misconceptions doesn't mean to me to change somebody's mind about Islam. Its up to them. If he still feels that way that's his business not mine. I just share publicly what I know, engage in discussion, u know, i enjoy human interaction.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones