jakee 1,257 #126 March 29, 2015 QuoteThey were to be assimilated into the culture - most likely as domestic servants. They could be given in marriage and were not to be treated brutally. Oh well that's OK then, once you've made a slave marry someone it's completely different. No such thing as spousal rape, amirite? Even if we accept your thesis though, lets have a look at what that means. I know you enjoyed the last analogy so let's expand it a bit. God orders you personally not to have sex. After a while though you're suffering from a pretty bad case of blue balls so next time you're driving past the red light district you stop for a quick doorway knee-knocker with one of the local slags - even though you know most of them are dirty. A little later you find out you've got VD. Now this is clearly the hooker's fault and not yours since she provoked you with her wanton female wiles. So you go back and find out where she lives and stab her to death. As you're leaving her bedroom, soaked in blood up to the elbows, you notice a small boy peering out at you from the kitchen. You think to yourself "This kid looks pretty angry. If I let him grow up he might remember who I am and come back to kill me" so you beat his head in with a skillet. Now as you leave the kitchen, mother's blood and son's skull and brain fragments dripping off you, you see a small girl look at you from the hallway. "Well" you think to yourself "this feeble girl can't possibly hurt me. If I take her with me and hold her long enough Stockholm syndrome might set in and she'll think she loves me. Then when she's old enough I'll make her marry cousin Bob, no girl would ever date him by choice." So you zip tie her hands behind her back, drive her back to your place, lock her in the basement and only let her out to clean the house and perform other chores. How much does that sound like what God would want you to do? QuoteIn some cultures, it's not acceptable to rape female slaves, nor is it commanded. In fact, there are laws against it - The Israelites where an example of this type of culture. Show me. QuoteThe idea was that the loss of God's favor would allow Israel to be overcome. It was a war provoked by Midianites and they lost. Again, one of God's attributes is vengeance. Many people don't like that, but I can't see anyone more qualified to Judge. He controls the power of life and death. And chose to grant favour to one tribe who disobeyed him and vengeance to the other tribes who disobeyed him. So what's that about? QuoteThe men of course...and it was clearly unacceptable. So why were they allowed to live after one sacrifice and the women not?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #127 March 29, 2015 QuoteI don't know how else to expand your one-dimensional perspective. What happens to your one-dimensional perspective if it's pointed out that God wasn't angry about the sexual immorality, he wasn't angry about the supposed plot to destroy the Israelites, he was angry because the Israelites showed respect to the Midianite's Gods while they were guests in the Midianite's homes, and that's why he wanted them all dead? How's that vengeance?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #128 March 29, 2015 QuoteHow much does that sound like what God would want you to do? It doesn't...I was first attracted to the character of Christ, and tho I fall so short, I try to model my life after His example. The more I understand, the more I see how essential self sacrifice becomes. The idea of giving up your life for the benefit of someone else is so admirable. It's like the only true meaningful way of life for me. (and I'm not necessarily talking about a physical death) But the more I grasp at what that actually means, the more I question the strength of my faith... QuoteQuoteThe men of course...and it was clearly unacceptable. So why were they allowed to live after one sacrifice and the women not? They weren't, 24,000 of them died. I think the sacrifice you were referring to was the one that ended that plague.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #129 March 29, 2015 jakeeQuoteI don't know how else to expand your one-dimensional perspective. What happens to your one-dimensional perspective if it's pointed out that God wasn't angry about the sexual immorality, he wasn't angry about the supposed plot to destroy the Israelites, he was angry because the Israelites showed respect to the Midianite's Gods while they were guests in the Midianite's homes, and that's why he wanted them all dead? How's that vengeance? It was all of that...vengeance, wrath and jealousy - all attributes of God.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #130 March 29, 2015 CoreeeceQuoteHow much does that sound like what God would want you to do? It doesn't... So how come it's what he told them to do? QuoteQuoteQuoteThe men of course...and it was clearly unacceptable. So why were they allowed to live after one sacrifice and the women not? They weren't, 24,000 of them died. I think the sacrifice you were referring to was the one that ended that plague. Exactly. So why didn't the women get the chance to say sorry? Why didn't the kids, who weren't at fault in anyway, not get the chance to redeem themselves when the guys who's fault you admit it was in the first place got back into the big man's good graces? How do you defend any of this stuff as making sense?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #131 March 29, 2015 Coreeece***QuoteI don't know how else to expand your one-dimensional perspective. What happens to your one-dimensional perspective if it's pointed out that God wasn't angry about the sexual immorality, he wasn't angry about the supposed plot to destroy the Israelites, he was angry because the Israelites showed respect to the Midianite's Gods while they were guests in the Midianite's homes, and that's why he wanted them all dead? How's that vengeance? It was all of that...vengeance, wrath and jealousy - all attributes of God. So God ordered his followers to kill an entire civilisation because they didn't believe in him. So this is better than the koran... how?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #132 March 29, 2015 jakee******QuoteI don't know how else to expand your one-dimensional perspective. What happens to your one-dimensional perspective if it's pointed out that God wasn't angry about the sexual immorality, he wasn't angry about the supposed plot to destroy the Israelites, he was angry because the Israelites showed respect to the Midianite's Gods while they were guests in the Midianite's homes, and that's why he wanted them all dead? How's that vengeance? It was all of that...vengeance, wrath and jealousy - all attributes of God. So God ordered his followers to kill an entire civilisation because they didn't believe in him. So this is better than the koran... how? I don't know about the Koran. Does it still command it's followers to kill off modern day civilizations, unlike scripture? Does the Koran still hold people under the law rather than grace like the bible? Does the Koran have Christ?Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #133 March 29, 2015 QuoteExactly. So why didn't the women get the chance to say sorry? Why didn't the kids, who weren't at fault in anyway, not get the chance to redeem themselves when the guys who's fault you admit it was in the first place got back into the big man's good graces? How do you defend any of this stuff as making sense? You can ask why until you're blue in the face. I still have a lot of questions of my own... Maybe there is answer to why, but I doubt we'll find it by dwelling on the negativity and pounding it down each others throats.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #134 March 29, 2015 QuoteYou can ask why until you're blue in the face... And the religious won't ever answer properly. I know, it's just fun tying you guys in knots. QuoteI still have a lot of questions of my own... Maybe there is answer to why, but I doubt we'll find it by dwelling on the negativity If you question it, and you do think it's negative, why are you defending it? Why not just agree that whether or not the story is exactly as Bill presented, it's still pretty freakin' evil?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #135 March 30, 2015 jakeeQuoteYou can ask why until you're blue in the face... And the religious won't ever answer properly. I know, it's just fun tying you guys in knots. QuoteI still have a lot of questions of my own... Maybe there is answer to why, but I doubt we'll find it by dwelling on the negativity If you question it, and you do think it's negative, why are you defending it? Why not just agree that whether or not the story is exactly as Bill presented, it's still pretty freakin' evil? Interesting choice of words from an atheist. It seems the concept of evil would be more of an argument for God rather than against Him. I've found it to be rather foolheaded to put God in the Dock. Wouldn't God Himself set the standard of his own actions rather than our modern palatability of justice? He didn't approve of the first batch of humans, so he wiped 'em all out - women and children included. The wage of sin is death, and we choose to sin - He chooses when we die. We have subjected ourselves to death and the evil that causes it through our own persistent rebellion. We have not lived up to our potential as human beings and despise his authority. I'm reminded of Revelation 3:17 "You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." God not only allows evil - He controls evil and even causes it according to His own good purpose. Isaiah 45:7 "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things." God does not need my defense Jakee...we were simply discussing what the words say they say.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #136 March 30, 2015 Well, given that you were trying to justify the actions in the story I would say that you were defending him. If you're just saying now that 'yeah it was evil but I'm ok with that' then I've got no grounds to argue.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #137 March 30, 2015 [defense of murder and rape snipped] Let's hope you find the same "moral flexibility" - and ability to reinterpret clear text - the next time someone quotes a section of the Koran calling for Jihad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #138 March 30, 2015 Coreeece***QuoteYou can ask why until you're blue in the face... And the religious won't ever answer properly. I know, it's just fun tying you guys in knots. QuoteI still have a lot of questions of my own... Maybe there is answer to why, but I doubt we'll find it by dwelling on the negativity If you question it, and you do think it's negative, why are you defending it? Why not just agree that whether or not the story is exactly as Bill presented, it's still pretty freakin' evil? Interesting choice of words from an atheist. It seems the concept of evil would be more of an argument for God rather than against Him. I've found it to be rather foolheaded to put God in the Dock. Wouldn't God Himself set the standard of his own actions rather than our modern palatability of justice? He didn't approve of the first batch of humans, so he wiped 'em all out - women and children included. The wage of sin is death, and we choose to sin - He chooses when we die. We have subjected ourselves to death and the evil that causes it through our own persistent rebellion. We have not lived up to our potential as human beings and despise his authority. I'm reminded of Revelation 3:17 "You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." God not only allows evil - He controls evil and even causes it according to His own good purpose. Isaiah 45:7 "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things." God does not need my defense Jakee...we were simply discussing what the words say they say. Although it is fun to bang your head against a wall from time to time it accomplishes nothing. They may feel the same way to which I say okay... no point in continuing the conversation. One of the most difficult things to do when reading scripture has nothing to do with the language, the context, etc. It is actually reading it with an eastern perspective. That is really tough to do being from the west. Several of the "arguments" demonstrated that. If a person just assumes rape happened bc they were soldiers then there is nothing you can do to take the west out of that persons mind. It is important to do this when reading the Qu'ran as well. Even if they will not admit it, there is a clear difference between the texts which I pointed out. Bill argues something different. He simply says that the text says what it says. That is not true nor is it true for the Qu'ran but again there is no point in arguing it unless both parties will look at the whole picture. There is a bias on both sides and with this topic.... it tends to lead nowhere. Good thing we are not called to "save" everyone as many think including Christians because many will never subscribe to Christ. I am okay with that for several reasons but the biggest being, I respect a persons choice. "Free will", the second greatest gift God gave us. edited to read betterLife is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #139 March 31, 2015 Coreece I'm not necessarily replying to you. Just posting this. http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-kfc-worker-loses-mind/ Can I have some extra bacon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #140 March 31, 2015 That story was a piece of shit, reporting wise. I love how every time the employee was referenced it was "the Muslim employee." I also like how it was assumed his friends thought he was moderate so that they could attack that strawman at the end. This thread was a waste of time to begin with. You haven't made it better. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #141 March 31, 2015 What about this one. https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/bangladesh-muslims-hack-anti-islamic-blogger-to-death-with-meat-cleavers/comment-page-1/ Or this one.. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/03/30/403947/Blogger-hacked-to-death-in-Bangladesh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #142 March 31, 2015 "themuslimissue"? Gimme a break. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #143 March 31, 2015 DanG"themuslimissue"? Gimme a break. You are purposefully choosing to ignore the truth of these incidents. These are incidents of violence on "non-believers", in the name of Islam by dumb ass muslims.There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #144 March 31, 2015 QuoteYou are purposefully choosing to ignore the truth of these incidents. These are incidents of violence on "non-believers", in the name of Islam by dumb ass muslims. Just as much as you're "purposefully choosing to ignore" all the acts of violence by non-Muslims. Muslims are humans. They do terrible things to other humans. Some of them do it in the name of Islam, most don't. I purposely choose to look at the whole picture. You should try it. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #145 March 31, 2015 DanG Quote You are purposefully choosing to ignore the truth of these incidents. These are incidents of violence on "non-believers", in the name of Islam by dumb ass muslims. Just as much as you're "purposefully choosing to ignore" all the acts of violence by non-Muslims. Muslims are humans. They do terrible things to other humans. Some of them do it in the name of Islam, most don't. I purposely choose to look at the whole picture. You should try it. Nobody looks at the whole picture like you do Got it "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #146 March 31, 2015 That's not what he said or implied. But then, facts and you tend to not get along very well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #147 March 31, 2015 SkyDekkerThat's not what he said or implied. But then, facts and you tend to not get along very well. You are in the same boat with him too"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,146 #148 March 31, 2015 I won't suggest that you don't do facts, but I will suggest that a website that calls itself "the muslim issue" will be cherry-picking its facts. Remember that with facts we can say that Christians are the second-worst terrorist in the 20th century in the US. With facts we can say that the Bible advocates rape and murder. With facts we can say that Christians are murderous snipers. But taking the facts and balancing them against the overall size of the population they're trying to describe gives them some importance (or not). That's why cherry-picking is a bad thing, unless, of course, you really like cherries Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #149 March 31, 2015 regulatorCoreece I'm not necessarily replying to you. Just posting this. http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-kfc-worker-loses-mind/ Yeah, that guy really didn't want to be recorded. Was he a muslim or a cop?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #150 March 31, 2015 wmw999 I won't suggest that you don't do facts, but I will suggest that a website that calls itself "the muslim issue" will be cherry-picking its facts. Remember that with facts we can say that Christians are the second-worst terrorist in the 20th century in the US. With facts we can say that the Bible advocates rape and murder. With facts we can say that Christians are murderous snipers. But taking the facts and balancing them against the overall size of the population they're trying to describe gives them some importance (or not). That's why cherry-picking is a bad thing, unless, of course, you really like cherries Wendy P. Wendy I more addressing the issue of how some treat others during a disagreement There will always be honest disagreement on topic depending on points of view Some here think their shit dont stink Either their nose does not work or they have a cold"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
