kallend 1,623 #151 March 14, 2015 lawrocket***This thread has made me curious, so I have a question for those of you who have young children. (I have no children.) It seems that there are an awful lot of things that pose a danger to kids. Do pediatricians actually attempt to go over all of this stuff? Or do they give you some sort of pamphlet that covers the most common dangers? Or recommend parenting classes which would allow more time to thoroughly cover this stuff? From the experience I have with doctors, they seem to be pretty limited on time, so I am wondering how much parents rely on doctors (rather than other sources) as a source of safety information for their children? My experience comes from common sense and mistakes. For example, my first born called 911 by chewing on a cordless phone he crawled to. He wasn't even one year old. Most stuff is covered by making small mistakes, letting the kids learn on their own, etc. the deadly risks I managed. The non-deadly ones is let them learn on their own. Sure they'll get little owies and stuff but they learn. I used the term "benign neglect" to describe it. Well, let's see. You attended college, did well enough to be admitted to law school, and obtained your JD degree. Your posts indicate that you are literate and thoughtful. OBVIOUSLY you are a completely average American in terms of education and intelligence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #152 March 14, 2015 kallend***Bill: Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician apprised you of the various risks of skydiving? If so, how correct was it? You think a whuffo doctor would know as The USA is unusual in not requiring a medical sign-off for skydiving. However, PADI requires a medical statement for scuba, and the FAA for obtaining even a private pilot license. So yes, it seems that many organizations do expect physicians to advise on activities that involve risk. And not even you can deny that unsecured guns pose a risk to unsupervised toddlers. Why yes. I myself have been to an AME to get my medical. Strange that you have to go asking a doctor for it. And even stranger that not just any doctor will do but must be certified. And strange that the doctor didn't ask me whether I had a plane or provided any advice on the safe operation of it. Just whether I had any medical reason why j shouldn't be allowed to operate an aircraft. Something that actually isn't in the Constitution. Find some examples that are a closer fit. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #153 March 14, 2015 kallendPADI requires a medical statement for scuba, and the FAA for obtaining even a private pilot license. So yes, it seems that many organizations do expect physicians to advise on activities that involve risk. As you know - The PADI statement is a questionaire administered by the scuba school. At no time did a physician administer it, or sign it, I never saw a physician nor did one ever ask me how many sinks or tubs were in my house. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #154 March 14, 2015 When did this start? I am PADI Openwater, Advanced, Search and rescue, and Nitrox certified, and I have NEVER seen such form. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #155 March 14, 2015 >Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician >apprised you of the various risks of skydiving? We've talked about it, yes - and I've talked about some of the more unusual risks (like hypoxia and knee injuries) with him. I know, I know, what can a doctor possibly know about hypoxia or orthostatic hypotension that you or I don't? Still it was a useful conversation. >You think a whuffo doctor would know as much about skydiving risks as >an anti-gun doctor knows about firearm safety? Depends. Is he a good sports doctor? Then he probably knows more than you think he does about the risks of skydiving. Is he a public health specialist? Then he probably knows more than you think he does about gun safety. >should gun sellers warn gun or ammo purchasers about the risks of >iatrogenic injury or death? If their guns can only be used in a doctor's office or hospital - that might make sense. If not, it's completely unrelated. BTW Paul (fat guy at the local range) regularly argues loudly on any and all topics while we are there, from Hilary Clinton to Faulconer (new mayor) to how local car repair places rip you off. Usually with someone else who works there, sometimes with customers, sometimes on his phone. (He hasn't figured out yet that you don't really have to yell into a phone for the other person to hear you.) On the plus side he is usually good for an extra hour or so if you're buying ammo. What sort of law should we pass to ban that sort of speech? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #156 March 14, 2015 >It seems that there are an awful lot of things that pose a danger to kids. Do >pediatricians actually attempt to go over all of this stuff? Or do they give you >some sort of pamphlet that covers the most common dangers? Or recommend >parenting classes which would allow more time to thoroughly cover this stuff? From personal experience, you get a folder from the hospital with about 40 things in it, from pamphlets on "the right way to feed a baby formula" (from a formula company of course) to a one pager on car seat safety to an AAP book on childproofing your house. I actually read them because we were in the NICU for a week or so and had little else to do, but I suspect a lot of people don't. We got about five minutes of instruction on "taking a baby home" from a social worker before she realized that it was our second child - and that Amy was a doctor who has worked in peds urgent care. Our pediatrician mostly just chats with us now. Normally she tries to hit the highlights with new parents - outlet covers, small things on the floor (coins, Legos) no long shade cords, cabinet latches - and she gives them handouts as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #157 March 14, 2015 I have no issue with a doctor discussing gun safety with myself or my children. I do have an issue with any firearm related information in my medical records that is not medical event related. With medical records being pushed into the digital age and the Government having access it just does not leave a good taste in my mouth so to speak. If this attitude leaves me in the tinfoil hat club, so be it. With firearm ownership being a constitutional right I don't think that discrimination against firearm owners should be any more ok than discriminating against people with different religious views or sexual orientation. The doctor should be no more allowed refuse service to a firearm owner than a gun store owner is allowed to refuse service to muslims. Laws banning speech are generally bad ideas, this one included. I'm sure someone can come up with a better way to handle this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #158 March 14, 2015 Quoteshould gun sellers warn... Should the NRA put forth... View the opposite perspective. That really is the opposite perspective. I find it fascinating that a discussion that began with whether doctors should be allowed to speak about a particular topic has since been framed almost entirely around whether they or others should have to talk about a range of topics. To the point where, honestly, I have no idea what any of you guys are even trying to accomplish right now.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #159 March 15, 2015 >I do have an issue with any firearm related information in my medical records >that is not medical event related. Would you have an issue with a note saying "discussed firearm safety for parents with patient's father?" Would you have an issue with such a note on a receipt at a gun range? >With firearm ownership being a constitutional right I don't think that >discrimination against firearm owners should be any more ok than >discriminating against people with different religious views or sexual >orientation. >The doctor should be no more allowed refuse service to a firearm owner than a >gun store owner is allowed to refuse service to muslims. I disagree there. Discrimination based on religion/race/sexual orientation/sex is, in general, a lot more protected against than discrimination against (for example) people who refuse to wear shirts, or people who carry guns, or people who have pets. This is a good thing, since discrimination based on race has been proven to be a much, much more serious problem than discrimination against the above behaviors. (Also note that at no time has any doctor refused service to someone based on whether they own a gun; that's not even being discussed.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #160 March 15, 2015 Nice, but there's no point in trying Once They see this - chutemI do have an issue with any firearm related information in my medical records that is not medical event related. They load up the strawman and ignore this - QuoteI have no issue with a doctor discussing gun safety with myself or my children. . Laws banning speech are generally bad ideas, this one included. I'm sure someone can come up with a better way to handle this. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #161 March 15, 2015 jakee To the point where, honestly, I have no idea what any of you guys are even trying to accomplish right now. You know what? I think that's exactly where I'm at now too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #162 March 15, 2015 Quote . . . I have no idea what any of you guys are even trying to accomplish right now. Wait, I was posting in SC; was I supposed to be trying to accomplish something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #163 March 15, 2015 jakeeQuoteshould gun sellers warn... Should the NRA put forth... View the opposite perspective. That really is the opposite perspective. I find it fascinating that a discussion that began with whether doctors should be allowed to speak about a particular topic has since been framed almost entirely around whether they or others should have to talk about a range of topics. To the point where, honestly, I have no idea what any of you guys are even trying to accomplish right now. This whole thing started by the American Medical Association creating policy that encouraged doctors to inquire about the presence of firearms in homes with children - we want to protect them...it's all about the children, right? I'm not surprised that many people found it a bit peculiar that this policy singled out guns given that children who are accidentally killed by guns represents less than 1% of all unintentional childhood deaths. Futhermore, many people just aren't comfortable with this type of information in their medical records, and then having that information shared with the government, let alone having their children being used as snitches... Many of these people have been accused of wearing tinfoil hats, but I'd argue that it's those who trust the government with their privacy whose minds may have already been seized. Now obviously, the greater of these two evils is the silencing of a doctors opinion...but shame on the AMA for making a spectacle and creating peculiar policy to empower doctors with a freedom they already had - as if doctors didn't already know what was best for their patients. It wreaks of liberal gun control tactics...Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #164 March 15, 2015 CoreeeceThis whole thing started by the American Medical Association creating policy that encouraged doctors to inquire about the presence of firearms in homes with children - we want to protect them...it's all about the children, right? I'm not surprised that many people found it a bit peculiar that this policy singled out guns given that children who are accidentally killed by guns represents less than 1% of all unintentional childhood deaths. Futhermore, many people just aren't comfortable with this type of information in their medical records, and then having that information shared with the government, let alone having their children being used as snitches... Many of these people have been accused of wearing tinfoil hats, but I'd argue that it's those who trust the government with their privacy whose minds may have already been seized. Now obviously, the greater of these two evils is the silencing of a doctors opinion...but shame on the AMA for making a spectacle and creating peculiar policy to empower doctors with a freedom they already had - as if doctors didn't already know what was best for their patients. It wreaks of liberal gun control tactics... Wow, I pretty much agree with everything that you wrote. And I'm even (mostly) a bleeding-heart liberal. __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #165 March 15, 2015 Well, there are issues on both sides that would make me ashamed to be considered either a liberal or conservative... Truth be told, if I wasn't so vocal about the likes of one or two issues that I hold dear to my heart, I'd probably be considered a liberal as well. But as it is, I've found it much more beneficial in life to be a fool for Christ - and that pretty much labels me as a conservative.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #166 March 15, 2015 Coreeece It wreaks of liberal gun control tactics... it's reeks damnit, reeks...You sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #167 March 15, 2015 Coreeece*** It wreaks of liberal gun control tactics... it's reeks damnit, reeks...You sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong. Reek is actually lord Theon GreyjoyI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #168 March 15, 2015 http://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/facilities/region/gsaa/area_master/departments/pediatrics/early-childhood.jsp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #169 March 15, 2015 billvon Would you have an issue with a note saying "discussed firearm safety for parents with patient's father?" Would you have an issue with such a note on a receipt at a gun range? (Also note that at no time has any doctor refused service to someone based on whether they own a gun; that's not even being discussed.) If the only people who get the firearm safety for parents discussion are firearms owners then I'd prefer to keep that out of my medical records. If all new parents get the discussion on firearm safety for parents then I have no problem with the notation. For those that would say that it's a waste of time to have this discussion with parents who don't own guns, I disagree. I also do not think a doctor should be allowed to refuse service based on my refusal to answer the question about guns in the home. If the answer "none of your business" will be considered acceptable, then I'd be ok with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #170 March 16, 2015 grimmiehttp://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/facilities/region/gsaa/area_master/departments/pediatrics/early-childhood.jsp See, I appreciate the phrasing of the question there. When going down a safety checklist it should read "if you have guns, do you keep them secured/locked away so your child (under the age of x where x is another thread worth of terrible internet arguing) can not gain access to them?" You can just say, "yep, I understand the precautions I need to take, I have everything I need to secure firearms in my house, and I've talked to my kid about what to do if they encounter a gun whether it's in my house or at a friend's house." and get on with things. If the conversation is, "Do you own any firearms? Have you considered not owning firearms?" it will immediately start to feel like someone on your doorstep asking you how you feel about Jesus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #171 March 18, 2015 AnvilbrotherWhen did this start? I am PADI Openwater, Advanced, Search and rescue, and Nitrox certified, and I have NEVER seen such form. I just got my certification TODAY and I had to provide the form, signed by my physician. Got the form from the PADI WEB SITE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #172 March 18, 2015 Must be a new thing I've been diving since 98, and got my last cert in 2012 and it did not require it then. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #173 March 18, 2015 AnvilbrotherMust be a new thing I've been diving since 98, and got my last cert in 2012 and it did not require it then. Maybe only for really old people - I understand after a century or two, only portions of the lungs remain, and that part is mostly just system support for getting from the $3 brunch buffets at Denny's to one's afternoon nap. PADI might discriminate. That capacity might be a concern for PADI. (seriously, they do ask for a doctor's release for people with any conditions from a specific list of health items....asthma for example. with john's life experiences, he's likely recovered from more things than many of us have had) In the meantime, I'll sit in envy of those friends diving in warm reef wall areas full of cool marine life ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #174 March 19, 2015 kallend ***When did this start? I am PADI Openwater, Advanced, Search and rescue, and Nitrox certified, and I have NEVER seen such form. I just got my certification TODAY and I had to provide the form, signed by my physician. Got the form from the PADI WEB SITE. What did you have that made them require a med cert? Quote All student divers complete a brief scuba medical questionnaire that asks about medical conditions that could be a problem while diving. If none of these apply, sign the form and you’re ready to start. If any of these apply to you, your doctor must, as a safety precaution, assess the condition as it relates to diving and sign a medical form that confirms you’re fit to dive. In some areas, local laws require all scuba students to consult with a physician before entering the course. From the PADI web siteI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #175 March 19, 2015 QuoteWhat did you have that made them require a med cert? They sensed he was a democrat, and knew he would want to go to the doctor so they could ask him if he owned any spear guns. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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