Broke multiple laws no problem 3 years free tax refunds

[billvon 2,417]

>How do you legally pay taxes when you are in this country illegally?

You buy a $10 hammer and the guy charges you $10.50. You have just paid sales taxes.

You work for a contractor and he takes SS taxes out of your paycheck. You have just paid SS taxes.

You work for a shipping company, get an ITIN and send in your 1040 like anyone else. You have just paid income taxes.

>If you start with the premise that they are here illegally, there is no "legal"
>that can possibly come after that.

I know a guy who was here quite legally for years. Even started a company that employed a few Americans. Then he had an immigration problem and was, for a while, here illegally. He kept paying his payroll, property and income taxes, quite legally.

What about that do you think is impossible?

[kallend 1,635]

Anvilbrother

Boy you guys can dodge an issue like your in the matrix. The broken part is we got millions of illegals, and government that is ignoring that fact, to sure as fuck take their money instead of fixing the situation.

Ummm NO. www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/


The only dodging going on is your dodging of facts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[D22369 0]

Quote

Anecdotal funny story:

My girlfriend's sister had her identity stolen, and her credit rating improved because the person who took out a credit card in her name made all the payments in full and on time at the end of the month. For 6 years.

damn... send me that persons info, I'll give em my identity
Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>How do you legally pay taxes when you are in this country illegally?

You buy a $10 hammer and the guy charges you $10.50. You have just paid sales taxes.

You work for a contractor and he takes SS taxes out of your paycheck. You have just paid SS taxes.

You work for a shipping company, get an ITIN and send in your 1040 like anyone else. You have just paid income taxes.

>If you start with the premise that they are here illegally, there is no "legal"
>that can possibly come after that.

I know a guy who was here quite legally for years. Even started a company that employed a few Americans. Then he had an immigration problem and was, for a while, here illegally. He kept paying his payroll, property and income taxes, quite legally.

What about that do you think is impossible?

Because if you follow the letter of the law, his gains and the taxes were illegally procured.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

turtlespeed

***>How do you legally pay taxes when you are in this country illegally?

You buy a $10 hammer and the guy charges you $10.50. You have just paid sales taxes.

You work for a contractor and he takes SS taxes out of your paycheck. You have just paid SS taxes.

You work for a shipping company, get an ITIN and send in your 1040 like anyone else. You have just paid income taxes.

>If you start with the premise that they are here illegally, there is no "legal"
>that can possibly come after that.

I know a guy who was here quite legally for years. Even started a company that employed a few Americans. Then he had an immigration problem and was, for a while, here illegally. He kept paying his payroll, property and income taxes, quite legally.

What about that do you think is impossible?

Because if you follow the letter of the law, his gains and the taxes were illegally procured.

It is clearly being demonstrated that the law means very little to liberals anymore
the ends justify the means

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Your best answer ever.

[airdvr 198]

kallend

***Boy you guys can dodge an issue like your in the matrix. The broken part is we got millions of illegals, and government that is ignoring that fact, to sure as fuck take their money instead of fixing the situation.

Ummm NO. www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/


The only dodging going on is your dodging of facts.

Until you control the southern border that's like bailing out the Titanic with a bucket.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rehmwa 2]

Stumpy

Hmmm. From my experience, Australia and New Zealand are pretty easy to get into as long as you have

a) A useful skill on the skilled migrant list.
b) a Decent level of education
c) the hygiene factors - not too old, in good health, english speaking.

If you don't have those three things - you probably don't have the right to be here.
It is a LOT of bloody paperwork though.

Just a comment - I won't venture an opinion on the amnesty until I observe the economy and society for a couple years now that it's happened (no conclusions without data, only theories - personally I have a few - some lead to this being a terrible thing, some others have some positives - I'm not sure which hold more weight yet. I have a visceral reaction to not following the law though....so I have to watch how that colors my opinions....)

Bold mine (in retrospect, your entire post) - say that as an American about the US and you'll get totally driven out of town and tar and feathered - and much of the time by people from countries with immigration rules that you'd think would be sympathetic

the short of it is that most all developed countries have standards and rules for immigrating legally - but it seems only the US gets bashed on trying to do the same (or do I just not hear about the others?)



OMG, and "english speaking" what an incredibly intolerant and racist position - is what many would claim

so why is it ok for just about every country to set rules and enforce them, but the US is evil incarnate to even talk about doing the same?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BillyVance 34]

airdvr

******Boy you guys can dodge an issue like your in the matrix. The broken part is we got millions of illegals, and government that is ignoring that fact, to sure as fuck take their money instead of fixing the situation.

Ummm NO. www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/


The only dodging going on is your dodging of facts.

Until you control the southern border that's like bailing out the Titanic with a bucket.

Maybe if we can get a Republican in the white house, he'll get that border secured.

We built the Panama Canal over 100 years ago. We can put up a 2000 mile wall line and topped with concerta wire.

Enough is enough with all the fucking illegals pouring in.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[SkyDekker 1,135]

rehmwa

***Hmmm. From my experience, Australia and New Zealand are pretty easy to get into as long as you have

a) A useful skill on the skilled migrant list.
b) a Decent level of education
c) the hygiene factors - not too old, in good health, english speaking.

If you don't have those three things - you probably don't have the right to be here.
It is a LOT of bloody paperwork though.

Just a comment - I won't venture an opinion on the amnesty until I observe the economy and society for a couple years now that it's happened (no conclusions without data, only theories)

Bold mine

say that as an American about the US and you'll get totally driven out of town and tar and feathered - and much of the time by people from countries with immigration rules that you'd think would be sympathetic

the short of it is that most all developed countries have standards and rules for immigrating legally - but it seems only the US gets bashed on trying to do the same (or do I just not hear about the others?)

Shouldn't the free market correct for this automatically?

If this was so important for Americans, wouldn't consumers be willing to buy products at a higher price point if manufactures/produced without illegal labour?

If your own society didn't have such a need for cheap products and labour, there would be no, or at least a much smaller, market for the illegals.

Why is the government getting blamed for the fact your own people cannot abstain from the products, services and labour provided cheap by illegal immigrants?

Where is the personal responsibility?

[rehmwa 2]

What are Canada's requirements for illegal immigration?

Is your country also driving that demand for "cheap products from the US" (odd statement there isn't it?)

good questions though - I guess it would be 'more' self balancing if the world market was 'free' (er). But when everyone has different rules, then an experiment on a more free market would have to be bounded. A large nation seems to be a good boundary to experiment with it - since they can't choose the rules for other countries.....

Quote

Why is the government getting blamed for the fact your own people cannot abstain from the products, services and labour provided cheap by illegal immigrants?

that's an odd and baiting statement - I think the government would be getting 'blamed' for not enforcing the law, and also now rationalizing the lack of enforcement by changing the rules. I suspect the citizenry/market (not just US, but anyone that buys certain products that come from illegal labor) would be blamed for not abstaining from purchases


seriously, though, you can tangent this to a free market vs social utopia debate if you like, but I just wonder about all the other countries' rules and if any other nation even considers acting like our messed up one - that and the hypocrisy of calling us out when they have even more restrictive rules and then exploit our situation too

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,135]

Nah just interesting to see some one who argues non-government interference to the extreme now is looking for the government to fix something.

Laws are getting implemented. People get deported. Most just think it doesn't happen enough, or to the right people.

UNless you are willing to spend billions, if not trillions of dollars, there will be illegal immigration. Specially when their is a large demand for their services.

Not sure what you mean with Canada's requirement for illegal immigration? Like the US, immigration is illegal when it isn't legal. Don't think that requirement changes much.

[billvon 2,417]

>Because if you follow the letter of the law, his gains and the taxes were illegally procured.

No, they weren't. The IRS agrees - being an illegal alien does not exempt you from the requirement from paying taxes. Nor is paying your employees illegal if you are an illegal alien. Nor is sending in your payroll taxes.

[billvon 2,417]

>It is clearly being demonstrated that the law means very little to liberals anymore

And it is clearly being demonstrated that conservatives don't even understand the law.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Nah just interesting to see some one who argues non-government interference to the extreme now is looking for the government to fix something.

Laws are getting implemented. People get deported. Most just think it doesn't happen enough, or to the right people.

UNless you are willing to spend billions, if not trillions of dollars, there will be illegal immigration. Specially when their is a large demand for their services.

Not sure what you mean with Canada's requirement for illegal immigration? Like the US, immigration is illegal when it isn't legal. Don't think that requirement changes much.

I caught that reference

You might have me pigeon holed a bit excessively (or for fun). I respect there's a balance, I just consider my current society out of balance and tipping further. So philosophically I do argue the limits of free trade (mostly to balance the other side's caricature with positions with my own). In details, like anyone, I'd rather start with a pure philosophy and then take it to the practical side (example, a "flat tax amount" is most likely "fair", but it's extremely impractical. A "flat tax rate" is more reasonable position and progressive in contribution. However, we push a progressive rate structure that achieves nearly a majority of citizens not contributing much at all and the push is to move it even farther. Similar examples apply to many gov functions. Not surprising when lawmakers make their paychecks on accumulating power, not relinquishing it).

Sorry about the typo - I meant to ask what are the Canada standards for "legal" immigration.... we saw the summary list of NewZealand and Oz - I think those are very reasonable.

as for looking for Government to 'fix' something....even a market based philosophy acknowledges that stability requires a basic set of rules for us all to follow. In this case, Government did NOT fix the problem under the current rules. Gov first ignored the rules, and then changed the rules. Actually, Gov purposefully ignored the rules with the end goal being to change the rules - for the sole reason of gathering more power.

We'll see in the long term if it nets out better or worse. Unless it's dramatic, even that will be a painful and subjective debate not worth listening to. If it is dramatic, that will be interesting.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rhaig 0]

kallend

***You broke a law when you entered the country illegally.
You broke a law when you remained here illegally.
You broke a law by not paying taxes, or you broke a law by stealing someones identity to have a SS number.

But Obama says no problem 4 million illegals, here have a new SS number, and by the way don't forget that we allow you to go back for 3 years and redo your taxes to get that refund you never paid into.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/03/03/obama-immigration-fix-4m-illegals-who-never-paid-u-s-tax-get-3-years-of-tax-refunds/

Ummm - NO.

To be eligible for deferral of deportation you may NOT have been convicted of a felony (which both stealing a SS number and tax cheating are). Also not every illegal alien is eligible anyway.

You should do some fact-checking from time to time.

semantics.

Committing a crime is vastly different than being convicted of a crime.

The two of you are talking about two different things.

--
Rob

[SkyDekker 1,135]

Pretty similar:

Buy your way in
Skilled worker (each province has different requirements)
Refugee

[airdvr 198]

SkyDekker

******Hmmm. From my experience, Australia and New Zealand are pretty easy to get into as long as you have

a) A useful skill on the skilled migrant list.
b) a Decent level of education
c) the hygiene factors - not too old, in good health, english speaking.

If you don't have those three things - you probably don't have the right to be here.
It is a LOT of bloody paperwork though.

Just a comment - I won't venture an opinion on the amnesty until I observe the economy and society for a couple years now that it's happened (no conclusions without data, only theories)

Bold mine

say that as an American about the US and you'll get totally driven out of town and tar and feathered - and much of the time by people from countries with immigration rules that you'd think would be sympathetic

the short of it is that most all developed countries have standards and rules for immigrating legally - but it seems only the US gets bashed on trying to do the same (or do I just not hear about the others?)

Shouldn't the free market correct for this automatically?

If this was so important for Americans, wouldn't consumers be willing to buy products at a higher price point if manufactures/produced without illegal labour?

If your own society didn't have such a need for cheap products and labour, there would be no, or at least a much smaller, market for the illegals.

Why is the government getting blamed for the fact your own people cannot abstain from the products, services and labour provided cheap by illegal immigrants?

Where is the personal responsibility?

I think you've got this one a bit backwards. We pay what is offered for sale. Perhaps the government ought to spend more time going after employers who hire illegals. But that's not the true fix. I can illegally enter this country and get an ITIN card. With the ITIN card I can legally get a job. Do you see the problem there?

BTW...I seriously doubt very many illegals are getting ITIN cards.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[aphid 0]

rehmwa

I meant to ask what are the Canada standards for "legal" immigration...

Quote

The easiest ways into Canada aren't really accessible to most people. You have to be rich, "skilled" or some kind of artist. These are the easiest ways to come to Canada, if you qualify:

"Business" or "investor" immigration programs where immigrants essentially buy their permanent residence by creating or investing in a business and creating jobs; The federal program is on hold right now, most of the provinces still provide this option.

The Skilled Worker and Skilled Trades programs, which are open to a select few people. The Skilled Trades program only allows in 3000 people a year. The Skilled Worker program is open to only a few select professions, requiring a lot of education and experience, or for other people with education and experience who already have job offers. Also, if you have a PhD, you may qualify as a skilled worker.

Finally, there are select professions which do not require visas to enter Canada to work and a special permanent residence category for some of these "self-employed" people such as artists.

Source: http://www.immigroup.com/news/top-7-fastest-and-cheapest-ways-immigrate-canada

This discussion suddenly reminded me of the experience of many Canadians around my age (late 50's).

During the American adventure in Vietnam (and Cambodia, and Laos, and...), large numbers of conscientious objectors (officially 20-50,000, but estimated by some sources as high as 125,000) made their way to Canada to disappear.

I met quite a few over the course of my life's travels. Some came in as tourists (legal) but overstayed (illegal) to avoid service. Even more simply walked across the border (illegal) without a record of entry. Many still reside in Canada, having laid down roots and relationships.

Officially they were here illegally, but in practicality Canada only deported a very few among the many that the US requested be extradited. A few more with outstanding criminal records were given the boot.

In the small town where I had the primary location of my business, an incredibly successful restaurateur came up and brought his five (yes, 5) sons from Kentucky (IIRC) to avoid the draft.

Many, but not all of the resistors, did take advantage of the amnesties offered under President Carter. By and large they had been accepted into the fabric of daily life up here. Therefore, even with the amnesty, at least half of them stayed up here. Hell, some of our elected officials are former American draft dodgers.

In 2009, Canadian parliament continued its policy of allowing Iraq War resistors to stay in Canada.

Currently we do have issues with some of our immigrants (drugs, gangs etc), but ironically they are all here legally.

This is just my personal experience.

[airdvr 198]

In an all-volunteer armed forces why would an Iraq War resistor need asylum in Canada?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[aphid 0]

I have no way of knowing their motivation(s) as I don't know any Iraq conflict avoiders up here personally.

[SkyDekker 1,135]

Quote

I think you've got this one a bit backwards. We pay what is offered for sale.

In a free market only companies which desired products and services remain in business.

The problem is that many people want three things: get lots of money for the incredibly valuable work that they do, get incredibly cheap products and services and get rid of those damn illegals.

They don't seem to realize there is a connection.

[billvon 2,417]

>The problem is that many people want three things: get lots of money for
>the incredibly valuable work that they do, get incredibly cheap products and
>services and get rid of those damn illegals.

>They don't seem to realize there is a connection.

Nor do they realize that those three goals are in conflict.

[airdvr 198]

I know four things for sure;

1. There are too many illegals in country and more coming every day.

2. Our current system rewards people for illegal entry. (see #1)

3. We need/want these workers in our economy.

4. We need to gain control over our southern border.

Seems to me the only sticking point to changing the system is what to do with the illegals who are already here. We can grant them some sort of path to citizenship but until we can control the entry points that only adds more incentive for illegal entry. You have to close the barn door first then figure out what to do about the horses.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Because if you follow the letter of the law, his gains and the taxes were illegally procured.

No, they weren't. The IRS agrees - being an illegal alien does not exempt you from the requirement from paying taxes. Nor is paying your employees illegal if you are an illegal alien. Nor is sending in your payroll taxes.

Ok, so a person that is legally not allowed to own a gun, shoots someone in obvious self defense . . . Is that now legal?

guy that is Illegally practicing medicine saves a life, was his work now leagal?

A person obtains a fraudulent and fake law license, and saves a guy from death row, is the act now legal?

A drug dealer claims his income and pays taxes on it, is that legal now too?

If you are here illegally in this country, logic seems that anything you do is now illegal.

Logic.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun