The111 0 #51 October 31, 2014 Being proud of your identity is human nature, and it's something that people say. I'm not sure how that could be surprising or confusing. Look: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22i+am+proud+of+who+i+am%22www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #52 October 31, 2014 I disagree. You are born gay, you are not born a "christian". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #53 October 31, 2014 Hi Narcimund, welcome back :-)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #54 October 31, 2014 I still am not able to understand how you can be born gay. You are born male or female, each with a specific procreative function. How you manage your genetic abilities is a matter of choice. In life we think, we rationalize and we choose.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #55 October 31, 2014 When did you decide you preferred women? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #56 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I still am not able to understand how you can be born gay. You are born male or female, each with a specific procreative function. How you manage your genetic abilities is a matter of choice. In life we think, we rationalize and we choose. May I respectfully urge that you need to have several lengthy conversations with several male and female gay people (one at a time, with nobody else present, and plenty of time for each discussion) in order to have them not only answer your questions, but do so in detail, with the ability to answer your follow-up questions, too. Short answer, though, is that sexual preference does not always necessarily match procreative anatomy, and is as hard-wired into the brain in utero as being right- or left-handed is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #57 October 31, 2014 +1 (Damn Andy impressive answer, not a lick of smart ass either) Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #58 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I still am not able to understand how you can be born gay. You are born male or female, each with a specific procreative function. How you manage your genetic abilities is a matter of choice. In life we think, we rationalize and we choose. Holy shit....I'm literally speechless. No witty reply or joke in my head...just....speechless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #59 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I still am not able to understand how you can be born gay. You are born male or female, each with a specific procreative function. How you manage your genetic abilities is a matter of choice. In life we think, we rationalize and we choose.This suggests you do all of your "thinking/choosing" with your little head. Others find there is a role for the big head as well. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #60 October 31, 2014 I think your directive has excellent potential. I would like to have such discussions with LGBT folks. My experience in the past has been skewed and limited to males that were having multiple issues with their homosexuality. I'm sure there were some lesbians in my client base. However, they did not present any problems associated with their sexual preference. I just realized, in my background the subject has always been discussed as sexual preference, not genetic difference. It has only been in the past five years since I have been retired and on the SC that I have heard the excuse that homosexuality is a condition of genetic inheritance.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #61 October 31, 2014 See my post #60 above.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #62 October 31, 2014 There really is no hope for you Ron. The way you judge people is disappointing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #63 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I still am not able to understand how you can be born gay. You are born male or female, each with a specific procreative function. How you manage your genetic abilities is a matter of choice. In life we think, we rationalize and we choose. The party line I'm supposed to spout is that "we're born that way" but my mind is far too simple to know if that's true. I have no real idea how it came to be that I turned out to be a pansy but I am and that's only my business, not yours. I was very young when I realized I bonded better with the boys through their characteristic ways of thinking, communicating, making decisions, working, playing, self-awareness, self-improvement, and yes, how they look. Later I realized I like how they have sex too. I suppose maybe I could have suppressed all that and partnered with girls instead. But the only reason I could find to do so was to pacify busybodies with weird and ambiguous ontological mythologies. And that was only their business, not mine. But while we're talking about what we can't understand, can you explain why your tribe obsesses so much about what my tribe does in bed? We're doing fine over here. You don't need to be so clingy. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #64 October 31, 2014 Explain, I thought my post #60 was honest and clear.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #65 October 31, 2014 My tribe does not obsess over your choices. We discuss what the Bible has to say about the practice but it is still a personal choice. I totally agree, what you do in your bedroom is your business.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #66 October 31, 2014 Acting gay can be shamed or ostracized out of one, just as acting left-handed can be. "I was born that way" is no more an "excuse" for being left-handed than it is for being gay. It's just the way it is. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #67 October 31, 2014 That statement makes sense.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #68 October 31, 2014 RonD1120My tribe does not obsess over your choices. I can't speak about you personally but your tribe most certainly does obsess about us. Grow up gay and you'll run across 1000 coming out stories. The cliche line we all have heard over and over (often from parents no less!) is, "I can't stop thinking about the disgusting things you do in bed!" I do feel sorry for those people -- it sounds disquieting -- but their repetitive thoughts are their problem, not mine. I certainly don't find it difficult to avoid thinking about anyone else's sex activities and especially if they are so dissimilar to mine that they seem disgusting to me. The Christian and modern American political right tribes are suffering badly from their obsession about the sex lives of gay people. There's treatment for that. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #69 October 31, 2014 piisfishHi Narcimund, welcome back :-) Thanks, that's sweet. I'm just passing through though. The question in the OP gave me reason to have a good think about my own understanding of "gay pride" but I don't expect to hang around now that it's playing out. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #70 October 31, 2014 I am currently a Church of God Pentecostal. We discuss homosexuality in the same way we discuss alcoholism, drug addiction, adultery and domestic violence. That is to say it is all sinful behavior. We believe we should love the lost in our family and pray for them. We have one gay man, that I know of, in our church. He is a nice person and I like him. One of the mothers in our church has two gay daughters. One of them was married to her significant other last month. The mother and her husband, not the father, attended the wedding. They are not pleased with the situation but they have to live with it. My stepdaughter has a brother-in-law that is a school teacher in California and married to a gay physician. Her daughter is showing signs and symptoms of choosing the gay path. She is tolerant but her husband is very very concerned. BTW, your post #63, QuoteI was very young when I realized I bonded better with the boys through their characteristic ways of thinking, communicating, making decisions, working, playing, self-awareness, self-improvement, and yes, how they look. Later I realized I like how they have sex too. I suppose maybe I could have suppressed all that and partnered with girls instead. But the only reason I could find to do so was to pacify busybodies with weird and ambiguous ontological mythologies. And that was only their business, not mine. offers what I consider an excellent explanation of the rationalization process you went through when you chose your path. I congratulate you for being up front and honest. Another way of saying that is you "manned up" and declared your choice. You did not wimp out and say "God made me this way."Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #71 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I am currently a Church of God Pentecostal. We discuss homosexuality in the same way we discuss alcoholism, drug addiction, adultery and domestic violence. That is to say it is all sinful behavior. We believe we should love the lost in our family and pray for them. We have one gay man, that I know of, in our church. He is a nice person and I like him. One of the mothers in our church has two gay daughters. One of them was married to her significant other last month. The mother and her husband, not the father, attended the wedding. They are not pleased with the situation but they have to live with it. My stepdaughter has a brother-in-law that is a school teacher in California and married to a gay physician. Her daughter is showing signs and symptoms of choosing the gay path. She is tolerant but her husband is very very concerned. BTW, your post #63, QuoteI was very young when I realized I bonded better with the boys through their characteristic ways of thinking, communicating, making decisions, working, playing, self-awareness, self-improvement, and yes, how they look. Later I realized I like how they have sex too. I suppose maybe I could have suppressed all that and partnered with girls instead. But the only reason I could find to do so was to pacify busybodies with weird and ambiguous ontological mythologies. And that was only their business, not mine. offers what I consider an excellent explanation of the rationalization process you went through when you chose your path. I congratulate you for being up front and honest. Another way of saying that is you "manned up" and declared your choice. You did not wimp out and say "God made me this way." I think you're misunderstanding what his "choice" was. He didn't choose his nature. Rather, he recognized his nature, and chose not to force himself to fight it and acquiesce to social pressure by acting in conflict with his nature. To the point: homosexuality is not a form of behavior; it is a state of being. A heterosexual who engages in an instance of gay sex is still a heterosexual. A homosexual who engages in an instance of straight sex is still a homosexual. An engineer can help build 1,000 bridges, and people don't say "Oh, there goes that little bridge builder." But suck just one single cock, and.... well, you see where this goes. Anyhow. Yes, I know that a gay person who is turned off by heterosexual sex can opt for celibacy, the same way that a heterosexual can opt for celibacy. But even though that kind of seems (to me) to be your point, it really isn't THE point. See my point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #72 October 31, 2014 I'm sorry...you discuss homosexuality in the same way you discuss domestic violence?! You stay where you are, and I'll stay where I am in Colorado....drinking my beer, smoking my weed, and having tons and tons of gay sex with my partner of 4 years....sometimes all 3 at the same time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #73 October 31, 2014 Your latest post explains it well. Read it and see your hatred for what it is Ron. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #74 October 31, 2014 RonD1120signs and symptoms of choosing the gay path Ah, you sly devil, you! QuoteAnother way of saying that is you "manned up" and declared your choice. You did not wimp out and say "God made me this way." Sorta. I don't declare a deus ex machina because I have no idea how I ended up this way, much as you probably don't know how you ended up being who you are. Some qualities of humans have been shown to be genetic but others are still mysteries. I dunno why I'm left handed. I'm a curious type so I'd be distantly intrigued by a proven explanation but it wouldn't make no never mind one way or the other. "You're left handed because of genetics," "you're left handed because of early experiences," and "you're left handed because of personal choice" are all possible explanations and none would change either my left handedness nor my choice to be at peace with it. Some societies have given left-handers grief and I'm glad this one doesn't any more. Same for gayness, though the transition isn't quite done yet. Getting close! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #75 October 31, 2014 RonD1120I think your directive has excellent potential. I would like to have such discussions with LGBT folks. Good. You needn't be apprehensive - it will be nothing like THIS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites