Backwards assholes

[airdvr 198]

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20140924/NEWS/140929579

FFS...in my town. 3 grown ass men attempted to rob a gas station at gunpoint. Pulled a gun on the wrong guy and he was a better marksman than the robbers were.

Indeed it is a shame...that the third guy got away.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Arvoitus 1]

So they're having a candle light vigil for people who were willing to murder a working person in order to gain maybe few honest days worth of money?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

Family and friends are mourning their loss. They probably don't see them as you do, defined by their last stupid act.

As a parent I could not imagine the anguish I would feel in their shoes.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

I have mixed feelings. Obviously family and friends will mourn the death of these people. On the other hand, their comments (the comments section is pretty enlightening) are disturbing, in that they reflect the acceptance in some circles of society of crime as a way of life. Sure, these guys probably loved their mothers and were fun at parties, but that doesn't excuse their crime. Comments like "they had to eat too" as a justification for robbing and shooting an innocent clerk say volumes about the attitude that is rotting the core of some communities.

Unfortunately, for too many people going to jail is just a rite of passage, and there is no shame, no social consequences attached to being a criminal.

If you look at countries with very low crime rates, conviction and jail are associated with social ostracism, loss of all contact with friends and family, often forever. In Japan, after people have served their sentence and been released, it is common that even their own children will refuse to have anything to do with them, because of the dishonor and shame. That seems overly harsh, and there should always be room for forgiveness and rehabilitation. Still, it seems a better system than one that celebrates criminality, one where conviction and jail are just a part of growing up, as natural as growing hair on your pubic regions.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[airdvr 198]

SkyDekker

Family and friends are mourning their loss. They probably don't see them as you do, defined by their last stupid act.

As a parent I could not imagine the anguish I would feel in their shoes.

There is no doubt I would be devastated if this were my son.
Part of my devastation would be how did I not teach him that robbing people will end badly for him...most likely in jail or dead.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,141]

I know I would have taught that.

Eventually they go their own way. Just hope the foundation provided is strong enough at that point. But it certainly isn't only upbringing that affects the road they chose to walk down.

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Family and friends are mourning their loss. They probably don't see them as you do, defined by their last stupid act.

As a parent I could not imagine the anguish I would feel in their shoes.

if my son died while attempted armed robbery/murder, I wouldn't be so crass as to hold a 'vigil' at the crime scene in public. I'd endure the grief and shame in private.

These kids didn't make "a bad decision." They made many, and I'm sure many more beyond this incident.

[muff528 3]

Don't know about Ohio, but in Florida the guy who got away would be facing two counts of 1st degree murder under the Florida felony murder rule.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

kelpdiver

***Family and friends are mourning their loss. They probably don't see them as you do, defined by their last stupid act.

As a parent I could not imagine the anguish I would feel in their shoes.

if my son died while attempted armed robbery/murder, I wouldn't be so crass as to hold a 'vigil' at the crime scene in public. I'd endure the grief and shame in private.

These kids didn't make "a bad decision." They made many, and I'm sure many more beyond this incident.

And so we have established that everybody is different. I wouldn't do it either. But then I also hope never to have to find out what theya re going through.

[lawrocket 3]

It's unfortunate, but too many parents in these circumstances breed kids to be workers in crime. These kids are often mourned because they got killed on the job. Parents are thugs, they were bred to be thugs, raised to be thugs, and they become thugs. Think of what the "family man" would be teaching to his children. Think he was going to be helping them with homework?

IT's a sad state. Immature kids having kids is one part of it. When that immaturity is also implicating criminal activity, it's like the kids are hopeless. They don't have the guidance.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 1,644]

Recently a juvenile in a Chicago suburb was attempting to steal metal rods from a construction company to sell for scrap, and the stuff he pulled out was a support for a heavy overhead structure that then fell on him and killed him.

His family is now suing the company for wrongful death.

WTF!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

kallend

Recently a juvenile in a Chicago suburb was attempting to steal metal rods from a construction company to sell for scrap, and the stuff he pulled out was a support for a heavy overhead structure that then fell on him and killed him.

His family is now suing the company for wrongful death.

WTF!

It isn't hard to file a lawsuit. Unfortunately, that puts a burden on the construction company to defend themselves, or else the complainants may get a default judgement. While I don't generally advocate for new laws, I think perhaps there should be a law that bars people from suing for injuries they suffered while they were committing a crime.

I recall reading a while ago about someone suing a property owner because they were electrocuted, while stealing copper wire!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Andy9o8 0]

GeorgiaDon

***
Recently a juvenile in a Chicago suburb was attempting to steal metal rods from a construction company to sell for scrap, and the stuff he pulled out was a support for a heavy overhead structure that then fell on him and killed him.

His family is now suing the company for wrongful death.

WTF!

It isn't hard to file a lawsuit. Unfortunately, that puts a burden on the construction company to defend themselves, or else the complainants may get a default judgement. While I don't generally advocate for new laws, I think perhaps there should be a law that bars people from suing for injuries they suffered while they were committing a crime.

I recall reading a while ago about someone suing a property owner because they were electrocuted, while stealing copper wire!

The following is not advocacy, it's just an explanation.

The legal doctrine, which is applied to certain (but not necessarily all) juvenile actors, is commonly known as "Attractive Nuisance". (No, it has nothing to do with hooking up with up a jailbait 16 year old hottie.)

Here's a Wikipedia article explaining the Attractive Nuisance doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine

And here's one article about the Chicago case John mentioned: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Family-of-Boy-Crushed-During-Alleged-Theft-Files-Lawsuit-277079721.html

If you read both my links, you can see that the plaintiffs' attorney seems to be trying to apply the Attractive Nuisance doctrine to his theory of the case.

Having said this, whether a judge will allow the case to go to trial (I presume there will be one or more pretrial motions to dismiss), and if so, whether a jury will seriously consider it, or call bullshit on it, remains to be seen.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

I know I would have taught that.

Eventually they go their own way. Just hope the foundation provided is strong enough at that point. But it certainly isn't only upbringing that affects the road they chose to walk down.

Eventually . . . how many "kids" are leaving the house at their age?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[oldwomanc6 38]

If I understand this correctly, copper wire and rebar may equal a swimming pool or fish pond, now?

I guess it makes sense. I remember, about 40 years ago, in Orange county, a kid from my elementary school, was killed when he got into a construction site, and fell down a hole (or a pile of dirt collapsed on him). There was some sort of legal action against the construction company for not securing the site "adequately enough".

I don't remember what, if anything, came of it, but it never stopped us kids from exploring all the construction sites that were in range of us on our bikes. We collected all kinds of stuff that was left lying around and wandered around in half-built houses.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[oldwomanc6 38]

Iago

***If I understand this correctly, copper wire and rebar may equal a swimming pool or fish pond, now?

I guess it makes sense. I remember, about 40 years ago, in Orange county, a kid from my elementary school, was killed when he got into a construction site, and fell down a hole (or a pile of dirt collapsed on him). There was some sort of legal action against the construction company for not securing the site "adequately enough".

I don't remember what, if anything, came of it, but it never stopped us kids from exploring all the construction sites that were in range of us on our bikes. We collected all kinds of stuff that was left lying around and wandered around in half-built houses.

So did we. They put in a subdivision on what used to be the local motorcross trails. We still went out there and hill climbed up and down the cuts. After it rained we went mudbiking in the big puddles. Nobody ever chased us off even though there were active workers. They were actually pretty friendly. When we hit our mid-teens we bought rappelling gear and went out of the second/third story windows (when nobody was there, of course.)

However, we never damaged anything and only took bits of what was obviously scrap.

25 years later that all that would probably land us in jail.

My favorite "treasures" were scrap copper wire (yes, I get the irony) with the different color exteriors; if we were lucky enough, the pieces were long enough to braid a bracelet. Wallboard was especially valued because we could write on darn near anything with the "chalk", and no one complained, because it would hose right off.

Stealing would have been an exaggeration, as it was all headed for the landfill, anyway.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[lawrocket 3]

Ah, yes. I remember loving construction sites. Back then, the bathtubs at the sites were where all the beer cans the construction workers used were put.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

oldwomanc6

If I understand this correctly, copper wire and rebar may equal a swimming pool or fish pond, now?

Eh, each case stands or falls on its own, after a jury of non-lawyers (if it gets that far) decides what does and doesn't pass the smell test.

Quote

I don't remember what, if anything, came of it, but it never stopped us kids from exploring all the construction sites that were in range of us on our bikes. We collected all kinds of stuff that was left lying around and wandered around in half-built houses.

Yep, us, too. As a kid 40 yrs ago I lived in an under-construction neighborhood for a few years. The perfect playgrounds. My first ciggie was thanks to a pack a workman left lying around a site. Nothing was ever secured, and man, we really got into, and did, all sorts of shit. Which is kind of the point.

[airdvr 198]

The local community got together and started a fund for the injured clerk. There was a card signing and donation drop off today at the gas station. As it should be.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,141]

turtlespeed

***I know I would have taught that.

Eventually they go their own way. Just hope the foundation provided is strong enough at that point. But it certainly isn't only upbringing that affects the road they chose to walk down.

Eventually . . . how many "kids" are leaving the house at their age?

Going their own way and leaving the house are two different things.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

******I know I would have taught that.

Eventually they go their own way. Just hope the foundation provided is strong enough at that point. But it certainly isn't only upbringing that affects the road they chose to walk down.

Eventually . . . how many "kids" are leaving the house at their age?

Going their own way and leaving the house are two different things.

True - it seems the norm now that the parents coddle their young and they get to live with their parents longer and longer these days. But at least they get to go their own way.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun