billvon 2,473 #201 May 21, 2014 >Great, so at the current rate of CO2 is climbing in the atmosphere we'll hit 5% >in 2.5 million years (give or take) If it doesn't affect you directly you cam ignore it, right? I'll keep that in mind the next time you post something about Obama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #202 May 21, 2014 billvon>Great, so at the current rate of CO2 is climbing in the atmosphere we'll hit 5% >in 2.5 million years (give or take) If it doesn't affect you directly you cam ignore it, right? I'll keep that in mind the next time you post something about Obama. ???????????????????????? Since he is the president of the U.S. and I am a U.S. citizen living under his Iron Fist of NSA surveillance, IRS audits, EPA and BLM paramilitary groups, and drone strikes, you lost me with your logic there. Believe it or not, they have all affected me. You don't know me, where I have lived or what I have done. Edited to add: A crappy VA system also..."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #203 May 21, 2014 Quote Try living in a room with even 5% (a tiny percentage) of CO2. IIRC, it's going to take roughly 100 years at current trends to double CO2 in the atmosphere from 0.0004 to 0.0008. We have a long way to go before getting atmospheric CO2 levels to 5%... Nothing currently being proposed by our government or "environmentalists" is going to change that. All that's going to change is the government will have more control over our lives and more of our money in their pocket. That is not a worth while trade off, IMO. As I've said many times in these forums, I am not advocating we keep pumping massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. But it's not the US that we need to worry about. If we were really serious about this issue, we'd be going full speed ahead with nuclear power.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #204 May 21, 2014 StreetScooby Nothing currently being proposed by our government or "environmentalists" is going to change that. All that's going to change is the government will have more control over our lives and more of our money in their pocket. That is not a worth while trade off, IMO. Believe it or not, there is something the government can do if they were serious about fixing emissions right now..... ease up regulations!!! With the current rate of passing and enforcement of draconian regulations, the government is forcing companies to build overseas where there are no regulations. If they eased up on regulations and incentivised companies to come back to the U.S., those same factories would be much cleaner and safer. Only liberals can drive jobs overseas, make the environment more dirty, then "high five" about it."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #205 May 21, 2014 +1 Quote Only liberals can drive jobs overseas, make the environment more dirty, then "high five" about it. Specious. I'm starting to use that word a lot when discussing liberal thought.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #206 May 21, 2014 StreetScooby IIRC, it's going to take roughly 100 years at current trends to double CO2 in the atmosphere from 0.0004 to 0.0008. We have a long way to go before getting atmospheric CO2 levels to 5%... So what? You are quoting numbers without context. Do you know what difference 0.0001% extra will make? Or 0.000001%? or 1%? Quote But it's not the US that we need to worry about most. FIFY. Others being worse is not an excuse for inaction.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #207 May 21, 2014 Stumpy FIFY. Others being worse is not an excuse for inaction. In order fot this statement to have a ring of truth, there must be a reason for action"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #208 May 21, 2014 >Since he is the president of the U.S. and I am a U.S. citizen living under his Iron >Fist of NSA surveillance When is the last time the iron fist of the NSA crushed you? When is the last time you breathed the air or dealt with our climate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #209 May 21, 2014 Quote You are quoting numbers without context. The 0.0004 number is the weight fraction of CO2 in the atmosphere. The 0.0008 number is double the current weight fraction of C02 in the atmosphere. It will take roughly 100 years at projected CO2 emissions for that number to go from 0.0004 to 0.0008. The IPCC report's "sensitivity" estimate's lower bound continues to decrease with each report. Right now, they're claiming that doubling will increase the average temperature of the earth by about 2 degF. Quote FIFY. Others being worse is not an excuse for inaction. One would hope that any action being taken will actually make a difference, especially considering the costs of the actions being proposed.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #210 May 21, 2014 QuoteThe 0.0004 number is the weight fraction of CO2 in the atmosphere. Oh good, you know the number. Now you can stop asking everyone else what it is. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jgoose71 0 #211 May 21, 2014 billvon>Since he is the president of the U.S. and I am a U.S. citizen living under his Iron >Fist of NSA surveillance When is the last time the iron fist of the NSA crushed you? When is the last time you breathed the air or dealt with our climate? Nature nazi's killed the town I grew up in, so I joined the navy to find work. As such, I also have first hand experience on how the BLM doesn't know how to manage land. I've sucked air in many 3rd world shitholes (including India and China) and I know what real pollution is. I know how much they are polluting and we are not. I've been audited by the IRS recently. I'm still waiting for my final approval for VA benefits after retiring 2 years ago. The rest will never make it on to speakers corner. It's still classified and I still need my security clearance. Ask me again after I get a job at Home Depot."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #212 May 21, 2014 Quote Oh good, you know the number. Now you can stop asking everyone else what it is. It's a test, DanG. When someone is claiming this as an issue, I like to see how much they've actually looked into it. You'd be surprised how many "climate activists" don't know this number. Most of them don't have a clue...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #213 May 21, 2014 I understand it was a test. It's probably a good debating tactic in real life, but over the internet it just clogs up the works. OTOH, the rest of your previous post, where you explain the weight fraction and how you think it is not a significant problem, was very productive. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #214 May 21, 2014 >Nature nazi's killed the town I grew up in . . . . Ah, so you have never been crushed by the iron fist of the NSA. Since you've apparently lived between the last post and this one, I can assume that during that time you've been breathing. Sounds like AGW emissions have, in fact, affected you more than the iron fist of the NSA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jgoose71 0 #215 May 21, 2014 billvon Ah, so you have never been crushed by the iron fist of the NSA. What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #216 May 21, 2014 >What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #217 May 21, 2014 Quote how you think it is not a significant problem In no way have I said it's an insignificant problem. I do not think it's a good idea to keep pumping a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. It just not a problem that is going to be fixed by imposing increased government control and taxation over the US, IMO.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #218 May 21, 2014 >In no way have I said it's an insignificant problem. I do not think it's a good idea >to keep pumping a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. It just not a problem that is >going to be fixed by imposing increased government control and taxation over the >US, IMO. Agreed. That will be _one_ part of the solution but it will take a lot more than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jgoose71 0 #219 May 21, 2014 billvon >What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. You don't know me or what I do, and you think I'm lying to you, and that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model to back up your dooms day predictions. Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #220 May 21, 2014 StreetScooby If they eased up on regulations and incentivised companies to come back to the U.S., those same factories would be much cleaner and safer. Indeed, let's have more Love Canals and other Superfund sites. Let's have a few mine disasters like Turkey. Let's poison our city dwelling kids with lead, and eat fish tainted with mercury. Great idea. We could also drive cars without dual braking systems, fly in airliners with no maintenance schedules, and have no oversight over the efficacy and purity of the pharmaceuticals we take. Hey, why even require a medical degree in order to practice medicine. I bet I could do open heart surgery given a couple of hours of practice. It's only regulations that are holding me back.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #221 May 21, 2014 jgoose71 ***>What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. You don't know me or what I do, and you think I'm lying to you, and that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model to back up your dooms day predictions. Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states....Hate to break it to you... but the reason factories have been moved to third world shitholes from the US is NOT about regulations... Please try the next strawman down your list of reasoning till it gets to the REAL reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #222 May 21, 2014 >Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model >to back up your dooms day predictions. I don't have any 'dooms day' predictions. >Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to >India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states.... Factories don't produce most of that CO2. It's the power plants that provide them energy that are the culprits. However, if you move a factory from Kentucky (93% of energy from coal) to Bangalore (57% of energy from coal, rest from natural gas and hydro) you're going to generate a lot less CO2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #223 May 21, 2014 Quote That will be _one_ part of the solution but it will take a lot more than that. Giving the UN control over any of it will be a big mistake, IMO.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #224 May 21, 2014 >Giving the UN control over any of it will be a big mistake, IMO. It has to be a global effort, and that's currently the only organization that has that reach. (There's precedent for this - the Montreal Protocol, as implemented by UNEP, prevented further damage to the ozone layer without banning air conditioning and refrigeration, destroying the US or anything.) However if someone comes up with an alternative I'd be all for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #225 May 21, 2014 Agreed, it needs to be global..., preferably with as many responsible market participants as possible.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 9 of 18 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jgoose71 0 #211 May 21, 2014 billvon>Since he is the president of the U.S. and I am a U.S. citizen living under his Iron >Fist of NSA surveillance When is the last time the iron fist of the NSA crushed you? When is the last time you breathed the air or dealt with our climate? Nature nazi's killed the town I grew up in, so I joined the navy to find work. As such, I also have first hand experience on how the BLM doesn't know how to manage land. I've sucked air in many 3rd world shitholes (including India and China) and I know what real pollution is. I know how much they are polluting and we are not. I've been audited by the IRS recently. I'm still waiting for my final approval for VA benefits after retiring 2 years ago. The rest will never make it on to speakers corner. It's still classified and I still need my security clearance. Ask me again after I get a job at Home Depot."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #212 May 21, 2014 Quote Oh good, you know the number. Now you can stop asking everyone else what it is. It's a test, DanG. When someone is claiming this as an issue, I like to see how much they've actually looked into it. You'd be surprised how many "climate activists" don't know this number. Most of them don't have a clue...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #213 May 21, 2014 I understand it was a test. It's probably a good debating tactic in real life, but over the internet it just clogs up the works. OTOH, the rest of your previous post, where you explain the weight fraction and how you think it is not a significant problem, was very productive. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #214 May 21, 2014 >Nature nazi's killed the town I grew up in . . . . Ah, so you have never been crushed by the iron fist of the NSA. Since you've apparently lived between the last post and this one, I can assume that during that time you've been breathing. Sounds like AGW emissions have, in fact, affected you more than the iron fist of the NSA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #215 May 21, 2014 billvon Ah, so you have never been crushed by the iron fist of the NSA. What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #216 May 21, 2014 >What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #217 May 21, 2014 Quote how you think it is not a significant problem In no way have I said it's an insignificant problem. I do not think it's a good idea to keep pumping a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. It just not a problem that is going to be fixed by imposing increased government control and taxation over the US, IMO.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #218 May 21, 2014 >In no way have I said it's an insignificant problem. I do not think it's a good idea >to keep pumping a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. It just not a problem that is >going to be fixed by imposing increased government control and taxation over the >US, IMO. Agreed. That will be _one_ part of the solution but it will take a lot more than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #219 May 21, 2014 billvon >What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. You don't know me or what I do, and you think I'm lying to you, and that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model to back up your dooms day predictions. Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #220 May 21, 2014 StreetScooby If they eased up on regulations and incentivised companies to come back to the U.S., those same factories would be much cleaner and safer. Indeed, let's have more Love Canals and other Superfund sites. Let's have a few mine disasters like Turkey. Let's poison our city dwelling kids with lead, and eat fish tainted with mercury. Great idea. We could also drive cars without dual braking systems, fly in airliners with no maintenance schedules, and have no oversight over the efficacy and purity of the pharmaceuticals we take. Hey, why even require a medical degree in order to practice medicine. I bet I could do open heart surgery given a couple of hours of practice. It's only regulations that are holding me back.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #221 May 21, 2014 jgoose71 ***>What part of "It will never be discussed in speakers corner" did you not understand? I understand that 100%. You have a secret reason you have been crushed by the NSA that you'll never tell anyone. Conveniently, it just so happens to prove your argument. Such secret experiences are very common amongst some Internet posters. You don't know me or what I do, and you think I'm lying to you, and that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model to back up your dooms day predictions. Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states....Hate to break it to you... but the reason factories have been moved to third world shitholes from the US is NOT about regulations... Please try the next strawman down your list of reasoning till it gets to the REAL reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #222 May 21, 2014 >Doesn't change the fact that you can't provide an accurate climate change model >to back up your dooms day predictions. I don't have any 'dooms day' predictions. >Or that every new factory that our current regulations force over to >India produces more CO2 than it would have produced in the states.... Factories don't produce most of that CO2. It's the power plants that provide them energy that are the culprits. However, if you move a factory from Kentucky (93% of energy from coal) to Bangalore (57% of energy from coal, rest from natural gas and hydro) you're going to generate a lot less CO2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #223 May 21, 2014 Quote That will be _one_ part of the solution but it will take a lot more than that. Giving the UN control over any of it will be a big mistake, IMO.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #224 May 21, 2014 >Giving the UN control over any of it will be a big mistake, IMO. It has to be a global effort, and that's currently the only organization that has that reach. (There's precedent for this - the Montreal Protocol, as implemented by UNEP, prevented further damage to the ozone layer without banning air conditioning and refrigeration, destroying the US or anything.) However if someone comes up with an alternative I'd be all for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #225 May 21, 2014 Agreed, it needs to be global..., preferably with as many responsible market participants as possible.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
