Another ADA horror story debunked

[kallend 1,635]

Amazon

***

Quote

Now the supporters say well, their plan was sub standard
For who?

For those who tought they had insurance and ended up having to claim bankruptcy cause their insurance didn't pay for much.

Or for those who died because their insurance didn't cover.

I guess Death Panels are ok if its insurance executives who are deciding who lives or dies for profit and for that huge performance bonus. Interesting the GOP fears the government doing a death panel without the profit motive.. oh wait.

Well, to be fair, the insurance EXECs aren't the death panelists. The insurance companies have a panel of "medical directors" with MDs to make those decisions. Their performance is evaluated on how much they save the company.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[devildog 0]

billvon

>Now the supporters say well, their plan was sub standard For who?

For the insured.

Here's an example. (One you won't hear from FOX or even the mainstream media)

============
Obamacare saves family
Print Email
October 16, 2013 12:00 am
Allan Pacela

With so much controversy regarding Obamacare, you may be interested in our family's experience.

I am a retired engineer on Medicare, and my wife had long been insured by Cigna, under a group plan from my engineers' society. Because of minor pre-existing conditions, she could not leave that plan, because no other plan would insure her.

The Cigna premiums increased to $5,000 per quarter, or $20,000 per year, just for my wife. This year, Cigna canceled the entire plan, leaving her with no insurance.

So, we turned to Obamacare. She found it simple and easy to sign up through an agent in a 10-minute phone call. She obtained their best plan, providing much much better coverage than in the past, at a cost of $3,000 per quarter.

My wife would not have insurance coverage at all as of Jan. 1, if not for Obamacare. And, here's the kicker - we now are saving $8,000 per year, for a very much better plan.
========================

I'm calling total BS on that one. Just over two weeks after the hands down, worst website launch ever, and someone sails through the entire process with a 10 minute phone call? Not only that, but manages to find the one person (presumably) that knows all the answers, understands the process far better than the other thousands and thousands out there, etc. etc. Oh and did they pay? Did they actually get an insurance plan (not likely, especially with all the confusion, mixups, and dropped plans after launch).

Sorry, but since that supposed "OMG Obamacare saved us!" there are plenty of horror stories, reports, research, articles and so on showing this is a disaster that's not even close to being up to full steam. Hell, even the AMA (who just drooled over Obamacare) said recently its going to stiff doctors big time. Why? Because apparently you don't actually have to pay for a premium to be insured. There's a grace period. So hey, go without insurance. Sign up when you need it. Don't pay and get covered while your under grace (then rinse and repeat once you're dropped).

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

***

Quote

Now the supporters say well, their plan was sub standard
For who?

For those who tought they had insurance and ended up having to claim bankruptcy cause their insurance didn't pay for much.

Or for those who died because their insurance didn't cover.

I guess Death Panels are ok if its insurance executives who are deciding who lives or dies for profit and for that huge performance bonus. Interesting the GOP fears the government doing a death panel without the profit motive.. oh wait.

Why, when they do things like Benghazi, the NSA scandal, the IRS scandal, so on and, so on, would you ever consider turning that responsibility over to the federal, "we can fuck up anything better than anyone", government?

Just look at the roll out of Obama's "baby", his signature, and example, his moment in the sun . . . When he cared so little to make sure his shining example of how the government programs are going to be so much better for us . . . well, you saw what happened.

Think about how they will roll out that deathpanel for ya.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,406]

>I'm calling total BS on that one. Just over two weeks after the hands down, worst
>website launch ever, and someone sails through the entire process with a 10
>minute phone call?

I know! It's almost like the media reported only the worst, most sensational stories they could find, and ignored the boring ones. They'd never do that of course.

[BartsDaddy 4]

Well normally an email going around the internet for or against any hot toplc is the is the first sign to raise the BullShit flag.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[DrewEckhardt 0]

wmw999

One thing to consider is that while 80% of people were happy with their plans before Obamacare (is there a source for that?), medical bills were the biggest cause of bankruptcies in the US ( source). So maybe their comfort with their plans was misplaced, and based only on the fact that if it was cheap, they hadn't used it yet.

Lots of people prefer luxury items like smart phones with $100/month data plans over $100/month health insurance so when bad things happened they get stuck with five or six figure bills not low to mid four figure deductible and co-insurance payments.

Most Americans (the average family savings account balance was $3,800 as of 2013 and only 38% had an "emergency fund") buy bigger houses and newer cars instead of saving to get them through problems including

1. The time off work (perhaps with disability insurance paying just 60% of their salary) which goes with medical problems.

2. Health issues where insurance doesn't cover everything like the $2,907 average deductible ($6,078 for families) and $5,730 out-of-pocket ($11,495 for families) limit which come with ACA Silver plans.

Those are the root causes of medical bankruptcies, not insurance which "is not good enough" and wouldn't cover the other financial impacts (like lost work) which accompany medical problems.

[skypuppy 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

Now the supporters say well, their plan was sub standard
For who?

For those who tought they had insurance and ended up having to claim bankruptcy cause their insurance didn't pay for much.

Or for those who died because their insurance didn't cover.

hmmm. my mother died right here in Ontario despite our much-vaunted (but certainly overblown) single payer health care. from something that shouldn't have happened in a province where everything is supposed to be paid for. In order to save the cost of a second ambulance. So don't tell me how much better single payer or state mandated health care is. It isn't. Why do bob Rae and Brian Mulrooney and jack layton and Danny williams all go the states for healthcare? Cause it's better than they can get up here - before obamacare.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[jclalor 12]

DrewEckhardt

***

One thing to consider is that while 80% of people were happy with their plans before Obamacare (is there a source for that?), medical bills were the biggest cause of bankruptcies in the US ( source). So maybe their comfort with their plans was misplaced, and based only on the fact that if it was cheap, they hadn't used it yet.

Quote

Lots of people prefer luxury items like smart phones with $100/month data plans over $100/month health insurance so when bad things happened they get stuck with five or six figure bills not low to mid four figure deductible and co-insurance payments.

Who really gets stuck with those unpaid bills are the taxpayers and anyone who has private insurance. Until we let the un-insured drop dead in the ER, the only option is to mandate that people have a minimum level of insurance, it's not perfect, but I have yet to hear of an alternative.

Quote

Most Americans (the average family savings account balance was $3,800 as of 2013 and only 38% had an "emergency fund") buy bigger houses and newer cars instead of saving to get them through problems like time off work (perhaps with disability insurance paying just 60% of their salary) and covering out-of-pocket maximums like the $2,907 average deductible ($6,078 for families) and $5,730 out-of-pocket ($11,495 for families) limit which come with ACA Silver plans.

Outside of having a mandated savings account and mandated smaller houses and cars, it seems like mandated health insurance is a step in the right direction.

[turtlespeed 212]

skypuppy

***

Quote

Now the supporters say well, their plan was sub standard
For who?

For those who tought they had insurance and ended up having to claim bankruptcy cause their insurance didn't pay for much.

Or for those who died because their insurance didn't cover.

hmmm. my mother died right here in Ontario despite our much-vaunted (but certainly overblown) single payer health care. from something that shouldn't have happened in a province where everything is supposed to be paid for. In order to save the cost of a second ambulance. So don't tell me how much better single payer or state mandated health care is. It isn't. Why do bob Rae and Brian Mulrooney and jack layton and Danny williams all go the states for healthcare? Cause it's better than they can get up here - before obamacare.

That is sad.
Grandparents are a treasure . . . mostly.

That said, you are not going to convince the Obamacare lovers here that those instances will become more the norm than the exception. You can lead a horse to water and all that. Their mascot is a donkey . . . and you know how stubborn those are.

Even real life personal experiences won't convince them as a whole. Individually, when something like what happened to your G-ma happens, then it is already to late.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,130]

Things like that happen now and have been in the US under the old system. There is no perfect system that serves everyone great.

My father caught a hospital caused infection when he broke his hip. The insurance company was going to require that he go to a nursing home for the antibiotic, rather than having his physical therapist inject it at home. Note that recovery for old people is MUCH better at home generally. We had to pay the $800 plus dollars out of pocket to get him discharged. This was in 2007, so it was definitely not related to ADA.

Everyone can come up with personal experiences. Only in the aggregate do they become data.

I knew someone who was injured worse because of her seat belt, but that doesn't mean it hi I they're a bad idea.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>but it is not going to take a media campain to make the ACA look bad

And yet the Republicans are spending tens of millions in media campaigns trying to make it look bad (and in the above case, having to lie to do it.) Either they're all idiots or you're wrong about the above.

Seems like they may need MORE money to keep up

Quote

NYT: Administration Spends $17 Million a Month Advertising ObamaCare

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/20/NYT-Administration-plays-to-young-in-health-push

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

Seems like they may need MORE money to keep up

There should be nothing partisan about educating the public about the law of the land.

Of course, it will be interesting to see what happens to ACA advertising if a Republican wins the WH in 2016.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,406]

>Seems like they may need MORE money to keep up

So I guess they will have to spend tens of millions to try to make Obamacare look bad. Looks like you were wrong.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Seems like they may need MORE money to keep up

So I guess they will have to spend tens of millions to try to make Obamacare look bad. Looks like you were wrong.

Just because they spend 17M a month lying to the public doesn't necessarily mean the public buys the lies.😁

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,406]

>Just because they spend 17M a month lying to the public doesn't necessarily
>mean the public buys the lies.

The GOP spends more than that! You are right about not buying the lies though. Even Republicans don't believe the GOP any more.

===============
Four out of five Americans don’t trust GOP
1/27/14 09:55 AM
By Jane C. Timm

Just 19% of Americans have confidence in Republicans, while a whopping 80% do not.

A new poll that found Americans with serious doubts about all their elected officials, but Republicans scored particularly badly—even with their own voters.

Just 36% of self-identified Republican voters say they have faith that their lawmakers will make good decisions.

They’re damning numbers for a party that’s hoping to retake the Senate in 2014, hold onto the House of Representatives, and locate a promising candidate capable of beating the Democratic matriarch Hillary Clinton.

In contrast, Congressional Democrats had the support of their own party—a majority support them—but just 27% of Americans overall.
================

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Just because they spend 17M a month lying to the public doesn't necessarily
>mean the public buys the lies.

The GOP spends more than that! You are right about not buying the lies though. Even Republicans don't believe the GOP any more.

===============
Four out of five Americans don’t trust GOP
1/27/14 09:55 AM
By Jane C. Timm

Just 19% of Americans have confidence in Republicans, while a whopping 80% do not.

A new poll that found Americans with serious doubts about all their elected officials, but Republicans scored particularly badly—even with their own voters.

Just 36% of self-identified Republican voters say they have faith that their lawmakers will make good decisions.

They’re damning numbers for a party that’s hoping to retake the Senate in 2014, hold onto the House of Representatives, and locate a promising candidate capable of beating the Democratic matriarch Hillary Clinton.

In contrast, Congressional Democrats had the support of their own party—a majority support them—but just 27% of Americans overall.
================

Poll taken of liberals.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,406]

>Poll taken of liberals.

Yep, including all those liberal republicans out there.

[rushmc 18]

The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

Except when your guy loses, then it must have been because of illegal voting.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

Except when your guy loses, then it must have been because of illegal voting.

This is a stretch
Even for you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

This is a stretch
Even for you

Uh huh. So you believe the fact that Obama won two Presidential elections means that the people agree with his policies?

- Dan G

[billvon 2,406]

>The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

Then the country overwhelmingly supports Obama.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

Then the country overwhelmingly supports Obama.

You had better look at the election results again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

***>The only poll that really counts is at the ballot box

Then the country overwhelmingly supports Obama.

You had better look at the election results again

You mean the one that said he won the electoral vote or the one that said he won the popular vote?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,406]

>You had better look at the election results again

Let's look!

===========================================
Final Tally Shows Obama First Since ’56 to Win 51% Twice
By Greg Giroux Jan 4, 2013

Barack Obama is the first president in more than five decades to win at least 51 percent of the national popular vote twice, according to a revised vote count in New York eight weeks after the Nov. 6 election.
. . .

The president nationally won 65.9 million votes -- or 51.1 percent -- against Republican challenger Mitt Romney, who took 60.9 million votes and 47.2 percent of the total cast, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Obama is the first president to achieve the 51 percent mark in two elections since Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, who did it in 1952 and 1956, and the first Democrat to do so since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who won four consecutive White House races. Roosevelt received 53.4 percent of the vote -- his lowest -- in his last race in 1944.
============================================

OK, maybe you shouldn't have looked. Perhaps FOX has some "de-skewed" numbers.