The Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby, and the ACA

[funjumper101 15]

chutem

******Why should I pay for your skydiving related injury?
Why should I pay for your blood pressure medication?
Why should I pay for the prenatal care for your child? The delivery and post-natal care?
Why should I pay for your injuries when you fall off a ladder? Crashed a motorcycle? Wiped out on a mountain bike? All of these are optional activities that you chose to participate in, or an ailment brought on by bad diet and lack of exercise.

You Shouldn't.

+1

There appear to be ignorant people posting in this thread that have zero understanding of insurance and how it works. Google and Wikipedia can help overcome the ignorance.

Note to the ill informed ignorant people - Insurance does not work correctly when the administered as desired by the people quoted. Not for health insurance, not for life insurance, and not for auto insurance.

[chutem 0]

I fully understand how insurance works. I'd prefer to be responsible for my own insurance decisions/payment and have you and others do the same.

I'm not against a fed gov provided catastrophic plan for each person in the country. A very limited version of single payer if you will in a bare minimum sort of way. From there if you want more coverage either pay for it or get a job that offers it.

[rehmwa 2]

chutem

I'm not against a fed gov provided catastrophic plan for each person in the country. A very limited version of single payer if you will in a bare minimum sort of way. From there if you want more coverage either pay for it or get a job that offers it.

that's completely reasonable compared to current goals

unfortunately, those trying to buy vote want to state that "bare minimum" = "cadillac plan"....and then their buddies want to have something slightly better than that just because they are the buddies

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

chutem

I fully understand how insurance works. I'd prefer to be responsible for my own insurance decisions/payment and have you and others do the same.

I'm not against a fed gov provided catastrophic plan for each person in the country. A very limited version of single payer if you will in a bare minimum sort of way. From there if you want more coverage either pay for it or get a job that offers it.

Do you thin one day he might begin to understand the difference between health CARE and health INSURANCE?

yeah, me either.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 643]

There's more than one of you?

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

There's more than one of you?

Right now, it kinda seems this way.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[davjohns 1]

chutem

I fully understand how insurance works. I'd prefer to be responsible for my own insurance decisions/payment and have you and others do the same.

I'm not against a fed gov provided catastrophic plan for each person in the country. A very limited version of single payer if you will in a bare minimum sort of way. From there if you want more coverage either pay for it or get a job that offers it.

Agreed. I don't understand how a single payer system prevents abuse of the system. Some people run to the doctor for every little thing. It clogs things up. I would prefer that it kick in for emergencies and more serious conditions.

I'm also in favor of a flat tax to fund this coverage. The current system is ridiculous. Only D.C. could have come up with this fiasco...and monkeys. But the monkeys would have recognized that it was just a big joke.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Only D.C. could have come up with this fiasco...and monkeys.

Ooh! I'm gonna get 1,000 miles outta that one.

[wmw999 2,175]

No system can prevent abuse of the system. Just as there's always a new and improved idiot as soon as something's idiot-proofed, there's always a new and improved conniver as soon as you make something fraud-proof . Doesn't mean you don't keep trying, but one of the best ways is to keep changing things around, so they have to take some time to figure out the new system.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[champu 1]

wmw999

No system can prevent abuse of the system. Just as there's always a new and improved idiot as soon as something's idiot-proofed, there's always a new and improved conniver as soon as you make something fraud-proof . Doesn't mean you don't keep trying, but one of the best ways is to keep changing things around, so they have to take some time to figure out the new system.

Wendy P.

You're falling victim to the scam of the consultant who demands payment to help you navigate the constantly changing rules.

[rushmc 18]

champu

***No system can prevent abuse of the system. Just as there's always a new and improved idiot as soon as something's idiot-proofed, there's always a new and improved conniver as soon as you make something fraud-proof . Doesn't mean you don't keep trying, but one of the best ways is to keep changing things around, so they have to take some time to figure out the new system.

Wendy P.

You're falling victim to the scam of the consultant who demands payment to help you navigate the constantly changing rules.

Also, there is no place and the ACA that says the feds can compensate state exchanges

Just when anohter 58 billion is given to the navigators

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

wmw999

No system can prevent abuse of the system. Just as there's always a new and improved idiot as soon as something's idiot-proofed, there's always a new and improved conniver as soon as you make something fraud-proof . Doesn't mean you don't keep trying, but one of the best ways is to keep changing things around, so they have to take some time to figure out the new system.

Wendy P.

I fully agree. I just see the inherent weakness of systems as a reason to limit their potential impact. A 'catastrophic only' type system will not do as much good, but it will not cause as much damage when the inevitable abuse comes along. I see government that way in general. Limit each level to those things that can only be done at that level. The closer they can be done to the individual level, the better.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[funjumper101 15]

Isn't Hobby Lobby a corporation?
The silly citizens united decision says that corporations are people.

How can a corporation be a member of a church, and have opinions about employees personal lives? Wouldn't a corporate person be secular by definition as their sole reason for existence is to make money? Why would the owners/operators of a corporation be the decision makers? Aren't all corporate decisions supposed to be in the best financial interests of the corporation? Why is trying to violate the law OK?

Corporations can be considered a person when they can be put in jail. When the corporation can be executed by lethal injection, hanging, or a firing squad, personhood is established. A navel is another good way to judge personhood. Ability to be put in solitary confinement in jail, with no phone or Internet access can be done to a person.

Bullshit SCOTUS decision by partisan hacks have unintended consequences. I look forward to the placement of the Satanist's version of their Ten Commandments in OK city

[Lefty 0]

funjumper101

Isn't Hobby Lobby a corporation?
The silly citizens united decision says that corporations are people.

How can a corporation be a member of a church, and have opinions about employees personal lives? Wouldn't a corporate person be secular by definition as their sole reason for existence is to make money? Why would the owners/operators of a corporation be the decision makers? Aren't all corporate decisions supposed to be in the best financial interests of the corporation? Why is trying to violate the law OK?

Corporations can be considered a person when they can be put in jail. When the corporation can be executed by lethal injection, hanging, or a firing squad, personhood is established. A navel is another good way to judge personhood. Ability to be put in solitary confinement in jail, with no phone or Internet access can be done to a person.

Bullshit SCOTUS decision by partisan hacks have unintended consequences. I look forward to the placement of the Satanist's version of their Ten Commandments in OK city

Well put! ........

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

I look forward to the placement of the Satanist's version of their Ten Commandments in OK city

THAT, is something I can believe, when you post it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

So let's be clear, you think it's okay for somebody to be able to dictate what other people spend their compensation on,

No, that is you telling me what I have to provide for you.

Quote

but it's not okay for an employer to be told they don't have the right to decide how their employees spend their compensation?

Again, no.... Try reading it again.

YOU support others having to spend money on things you want.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Why should I pay for your skydiving related injury?
Why should I pay for your blood pressure medication?
Why should I pay for the prenatal care for your child? The delivery and post-natal care?
Why should I pay for your injuries when you fall off a ladder? Crashed a motorcycle? Wiped out on a mountain bike? All of these are optional activities that you chose to participate in, or an ailment brought on by bad diet and lack of exercise.

You are saying that you should have to pay for that.... I never said anything about making you pay for me.

Quote

As Americans, and skydivers, I would hope that we would be on the side of freedom of choice, not massive restrictions on choice.

The irony of you saying you support freedom of choice, while you support the ACA is off the chart!!!!!!

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

I really wonder how many of you who are adamantly opposed to birth control as a covered rx no matter what the case is also opposed to viagra being covered?

Have you seen me support viagra being covered?

For the record, if Hobby Lobby didn't want to pay for Viagra either, I'd think they should not have to pay for it.

Quote

Why should I have to pay for your sexlife

I don't think you should. I don't think Hobby Lobby should.

[rushmc 18]

It would seem a Federal New York Judge agrees with you

Quote

NY Catholics Win Court Challenge to Obamacare Contraception Mandate

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/catholics-obamacare-contraception-mandate/2013/12/16/id/542094

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

It would seem a Federal New York Judge agrees with you

Quote

NY Catholics Win Court Challenge to Obamacare Contraception Mandate

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/catholics-obamacare-contraception-mandate/2013/12/16/id/542094

There is a difference between how laws apply to churches and secular businesses.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

quade

***It would seem a Federal New York Judge agrees with you

Quote

NY Catholics Win Court Challenge to Obamacare Contraception Mandate

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/catholics-obamacare-contraception-mandate/2013/12/16/id/542094

There is a difference between how laws apply to churches and secular businesses.

Why?

There should not be

The gov will make no law, still stands

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

******It would seem a Federal New York Judge agrees with you

Quote

NY Catholics Win Court Challenge to Obamacare Contraception Mandate

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/catholics-obamacare-contraception-mandate/2013/12/16/id/542094

There is a difference between how laws apply to churches and secular businesses.
Why?
There should not be
The gov will make no law, still stands

Precisely! THAT'S why churches and secular businesses are treated differently.

Hobby Lobby is not a church.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

quade

*********It would seem a Federal New York Judge agrees with you

Quote

NY Catholics Win Court Challenge to Obamacare Contraception Mandate

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/catholics-obamacare-contraception-mandate/2013/12/16/id/542094

There is a difference between how laws apply to churches and secular businesses.
Why?
There should not be
The gov will make no law, still stands

Precisely! THAT'S why churches and secular businesses are treated differently.

Hobby Lobby is not a church.

Hmm
So the gov cant tell churches to ignore its religion
But, in your world, the gov can tell religious individuals to ignore theirs

I guess I should not be surprised given the liberal view of big government

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

Quote

Hobby Lobby is not a church.

Hmm
So the gov cant tell churches to ignore its religion
But, in your world, the gov can tell religious individuals to ignore theirs

I guess I should not be surprised given the liberal view of big government

Hobby Lobby doesn't have the right to dictate what type of medical care its employees receive based on the owner's beliefs.

THAT is freedom of religion, of the employees being protected by the government.

The owners don't have the right to inflict their views on their employees. Freedom, in any case (religion or what have you) is the person with the least amount of power in the situation being protected from the person who has the most power in the situation. Your "rights" end at the tip of my nose.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

quade

***

Quote

Hobby Lobby is not a church.

Hmm
So the gov cant tell churches to ignore its religion
But, in your world, the gov can tell religious individuals to ignore theirs

I guess I should not be surprised given the liberal view of big government

Hobby Lobby doesn't have the right to dictate what type of medical care its employees receive based on the owner's beliefs.

THAT is freedom of religion, of the employees being protected by the government.

The owners don't have the right to inflict their views on their employees. Freedom, in any case (religion or what have you) is the person with the least amount of power in the situation being protected from the person who has the most power in the situation. Your "rights" end at the tip of my nose.

It is part of a compensation package they provide to employees
They are not forcing anything on anybody
The gov is

So, once again, your view of what the gov can do is very liberal
I get it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln