Th Debit Limit Issue is NOT a Crisis

[Gravitymaster 0]

The problem with the Prof's claim is that ACA goes on forever. It's not just for one year. I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

[tkhayes 140]

Quote

The problem with the Prof's claim is that ACA goes on forever. It's not just for one year. I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

And the problem with the right wing's 'claims' start with having no alternative to spiraling health care costs or a plan at all for the future health care needs of the country.

1/2 (at least) of the ACA is about cost controls and incentives to improve quality and bring down costs.

The rest of the world IS doing it better for cheaper.

I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

[kallend 1,649]

Gravitymaster

The problem with the Prof's claim is that ACA goes on forever. It's not just for one year. I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

How many of the increases I showed were for 1 year only?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

turtlespeed

************

We are still spending money and the one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that the only thing getting in the way of this government saving some money is the government

+1

Yet he still supports the largest tax increase in history.

origin.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/07/ACA_Tax_Percent_GDP.png


What is the actual Number not the percentage.

So to make YOUR claim correct you have to equate 2013 dollars with 1968 dollars AND ignore the size of the economy, AND ignore population growth, AND redefine insurance premiums to be taxes (BUT only do that after ACA goes into effect).

Got it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

The rest of the world doesn't appear to use an insurance policy based approach to healthcare either.

Continuing to spend without a budget is financial suicide.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/obamas-national-debt-rate-on-track-to-double/

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***************

We are still spending money and the one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that the only thing getting in the way of this government saving some money is the government

+1

Yet he still supports the largest tax increase in history.

origin.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/07/ACA_Tax_Percent_GDP.png


What is the actual Number not the percentage.

So to make YOUR claim correct you have to equate 2013 dollars with 1968 dollars AND ignore the size of the economy, AND ignore population growth, AND redefine insurance premiums to be taxes (BUT only do that after ACA goes into effect).

Got it.

No. But you are the mathematician, you can figure it out.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Gravitymaster 0]

tkhayes

Quote

The problem with the Prof's claim is that ACA goes on forever. It's not just for one year. I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

And the problem with the right wing's 'claims' start with having no alternative to spiraling health care costs or a plan at all for the future health care needs of the country.

1/2 (at least) of the ACA is about cost controls and incentives to improve quality and bring down costs.

The rest of the world IS doing it better for cheaper.

I am amazed at how many seemingly intelligent people can't figure that out.

Oh, I thought you were for reduced spending? I guess you are only for reduced spending as long as the reductions are for programs you don't like. It's amazing how seemingly intelligent people think like that. Just as amazing that an intelligent person can't figure out that the government will take all the tax dollars they collect for Obamacare and spend them on other projects leaving the program broke, just like they have done with Social Security and everything else.

[rushmc 18]

Ah
They just did offer a plan

surprised your news sources did not report that?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,435]

>They just did offer a plan

Yes, they did. Good for them. Let's hope it's a serious offer.

[rushmc 18]

Sorry bill. They offered it a couple weeks ago

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,649]

Skyrad

***It's a mystery why the GOP is choosing to commit suicide with the electorate, unless it is truly arrogant enough to think the voters will have forgotten by next November. Welcoming the Tea Party into its ranks was just like swallowing a poison pill.

The GOP is committing suicide with the electorate... Really John? .

From the WSJ, a Murdoch paper with a distinct slant to the right:

Americans have come to hold a harshly negative view of the Republican Party during the government shutdown, giving the GOP a far larger share of the blame for a political brawl that many believe is harming the economy, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll found.

The poll of 800 Americans found scant confidence that President Barack Obama and Republicans in Congress can find a way out of the morass, with nearly eight in 10 saying the country was on the wrong track—the highest number since the worst of the recession in 2008.

At a time of weak confidence in the economic recovery, the government impasse in Washington has delivered an unusually sharp blow to public faith in the elected leaders and their stewardship over the economy, the poll found.

Participants in the poll gave the Republican Party overall its lowest marks in the history of Journal polling, which goes back to 1989: More than twice as many hold a negative view of the GOP as a positive one. By contrast, the number of Americans viewing the Democratic Party positively or negatively was nearly equal, at about 40%.

In all, 53% of those polled blamed Republicans for the shutdown, compared with 31% who blamed Mr. Obama—numbers that showed the GOP taking a worse beating than the party did 17 years ago during the last extended shutdown, under President Bill Clinton.

Asked about the current budget battle, 70% of participants faulted Republicans in Congress for putting their political agenda ahead of what’s good for the country. In a separate question, 51% said Mr. Obama was more concerned about his agenda than the good of the country. The public was divided over the president’s refusal to negotiate with Republicans unless they reopen the government and raise the federal debt ceiling, with 40% agreeing with his stand and 43% disagreeing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

turtlespeed

******************

We are still spending money and the one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that the only thing getting in the way of this government saving some money is the government

+1

Yet he still supports the largest tax increase in history.

origin.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/07/ACA_Tax_Percent_GDP.png


What is the actual Number not the percentage.

So to make YOUR claim correct you have to equate 2013 dollars with 1968 dollars AND ignore the size of the economy, AND ignore population growth, AND redefine insurance premiums to be taxes (BUT only do that after ACA goes into effect).

Got it.

No. But you are the mathematician, you can figure it out.

I did, and you are wrong.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,435]

>They offered it a couple weeks ago

No, they just offered it. Today they offered up their first plan that's actually reasonable, that both sides seem to be willing to consider.

If you disagree you'l have to take it up with RushMC. Only a few posts above he claimed "they just did offer a plan."

[Bignugget 0]

Skyrad

***It's a mystery why the GOP is choosing to commit suicide with the electorate, unless it is truly arrogant enough to think the voters will have forgotten by next November. Welcoming the Tea Party into its ranks was just like swallowing a poison pill.

The GOP is committing suicide with the electorate... Really John? Thats not what I'm seeing on the outside looking through the asylum windows. The electorate appears to be so polarised that regardless of what the GOP did Dems would not vote for them anyway and the GOP supporters are espousing the line of Rushmc's OP.

It is suicide for them because they do not possess enough numbers of RUSHMC's.

They need to swing the independents, and moderates. The democrats managed to do it quite well in the last presidential elections. The republicans, not so much.

They only control the house through technicality, not through popular vote.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

*********************

We are still spending money and the one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that the only thing getting in the way of this government saving some money is the government

+1

Yet he still supports the largest tax increase in history.

origin.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/07/ACA_Tax_Percent_GDP.png


What is the actual Number not the percentage.

So to make YOUR claim correct you have to equate 2013 dollars with 1968 dollars AND ignore the size of the economy, AND ignore population growth, AND redefine insurance premiums to be taxes (BUT only do that after ACA goes into effect).

Got it.

No. But you are the mathematician, you can figure it out.

I did, and you are wrong.

why didn't you bold This little nugget?
By contrast, the number of Americans viewing the Democratic Party positively or negatively was nearly equal, at about 40%.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

******It's a mystery why the GOP is choosing to commit suicide with the electorate, unless it is truly arrogant enough to think the voters will have forgotten by next November. Welcoming the Tea Party into its ranks was just like swallowing a poison pill.

The GOP is committing suicide with the electorate... Really John? Thats not what I'm seeing on the outside looking through the asylum windows. The electorate appears to be so polarised that regardless of what the GOP did Dems would not vote for them anyway and the GOP supporters are espousing the line of Rushmc's OP.

It is suicide for them because they do not possess enough numbers of RUSHMC's.

They need to swing the independents, and moderates. The democrats managed to do it quite well in the last presidential elections. The republicans, not so much.

They only control the house through technicality, not through popular vote.

They could have passed a bill yesterday when your idols were arrested.

They just had more scruples.

Says alot.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Stumpy 256]

turtlespeed

They just had more scruples.

Best comedy post this year

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kallend 1,649]

turtlespeed

************************

We are still spending money and the one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that the only thing getting in the way of this government saving some money is the government

+1

Yet he still supports the largest tax increase in history.

origin.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/07/ACA_Tax_Percent_GDP.png


What is the actual Number not the percentage.

So to make YOUR claim correct you have to equate 2013 dollars with 1968 dollars AND ignore the size of the economy, AND ignore population growth, AND redefine insurance premiums to be taxes (BUT only do that after ACA goes into effect).

Got it.

No. But you are the mathematician, you can figure it out.

I did, and you are wrong.

why didn't you bold This little nugget?
By contrast, the number of Americans viewing the Democratic Party positively or negatively was nearly equal, at about 40%.

You're STILL wrong about the tax increase, and also wrong in your lame attempt at diversion. From the WSJ:

--Only 24% of Americans had a favorable view of Republicans, the lowest figure in the poll’s multi-year history and four percentage points lower than last month. Another low: only 21% had a favorable view of the tea party.

--President Obama’s standing was relatively stable, the pollsters said, moving from 45% favorable last month to 47% now, within the poll’s margin of error of 3.5 points. Democrats overall were at 39% positive, with congressional Democrats at 36%.

--70% of Americans said Republicans were putting politics ahead of what was best for the country. A lesser 51% said that about Obama.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

If they polled every american, then I would believe you, as it stands they poll what americans will give them the answers they expect and want.

The polls are as corrupt as the democrats in office right now.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,435]

>If they polled every american, then I would believe you, as it stands they poll what
>americans will give them the answers they expect and want.

You should "de-skew" the polls until they show what you want. That worked well last time.

[kallend 1,649]

turtlespeed

If they polled every american, then I would believe you, as it stands they poll what americans will give them the answers they expect and want.

The polls are as corrupt as the democrats in office right now.

Don't you get tired of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "Lalalalala..."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***If they polled every american, then I would believe you, as it stands they poll what americans will give them the answers they expect and want.

The polls are as corrupt as the democrats in office right now.

Don't you get tired of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "Lalalalala..."

Don't you?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>If they polled every american, then I would believe you, as it stands they poll what
>americans will give them the answers they expect and want.

You should "de-skew" the polls until they show what you want. That worked well last time.

All I am stating is that polls are biased.

There is no way to get to a true sampling that is correctly representative of the US.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,149]

Quote

There is no way to get to a true sampling that is correctly representative of the US.

One way is simply to take the people who actually chose to vote in various elections, and tally them.

They at least care enough to vote.

But then to get good numbers, you'd have to take the ones who voted for the losing parties as well as the winning parties, across the board -- while their candidate didn't win, they're still voters who chose to vote.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

All I am stating is that polls are biased.

There is no way to get to a true sampling that is correctly representative of the US.

provably false. You can deny statistically sampling as much as you want, it doesn't change results, which right now, correctly blame the GOP for this fuckfest that is at least temporarily costing us all money. And since we're apparently paying all government employees for this time off, it's really a debt increasing act that Cruz has given us. Brilliant!

Now if you want to debate if the sampled populations represent the voting public now, or in 13 months, that's a lovely side conversation. But then we're in a state where you can even deny the result of an election, either on the premise that your people didn't show up to vote, or the even more nebulous one that 7 illegal aliens cast fraudulent votes, affected the result.