Snowden Granted Asylum

[NorrinRadd 0]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/01/russia-snowden-airport-papers.html

Good thing he isn't gay.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[kelpdiver 2]

NorrinRadd

Good thing he isn't gay.

or if he were, he cleverly arranged for a pole dancing ballet 'girlfriend' to post videos all over youtube for him.

[mpohl 1]

So, Holder's comforting assurance that Snowden would not be executed or tortured failed to work its magic?

[Kennedy 0]

Too bad Putin's cronies won't even make such a promise for Olympians in 2014.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mpohl 1]

All of the anti-snowden comments boil down to:

1. He put our country at risk... What? By exposing the corrupt nature of our own government eating us from the inside out? If these secrets were military secrets they wouldn't share them with civilian companies like Google and Yahoo.

2. If he was brave he would have stayed in the U.S. - That's the logic of silent, invisible martyrs - he would have been "disappeared" or tried by the same confidential government courts and achieved nothing, parallel to sexual abuse victims in the military hoping for justice in military courts. It wasn't happening, they had to bring the story outside. An assault victim does not ask to be tried in front of a jury of his attackers...

3. If he is fighting for freedom he wouldn't be in Russia. Um, he didn't choose Russia, that's where his passport was frozen. Further, the United States government is trying to pin him with treason charges, it only makes sense to go to countries that are strong and independent enough to stand up to the U.S. and also have an interest in doing so.

Meanwhile he exposed wide scale government corruption (don't give me that it was legal stuff - All tyrant's actions are legal when laws are passed in their own confidential courts) So until I hear a better argument for his persecution by the Obama administration, I am going to have to assume that this man is a patriot, a whistle-blower and our government is afraid of the very transparency it preached but never practiced.

Kennedy

Too bad Putin's cronies won't even make such a promise for Olympians in 2014.

[Andy9o8 0]

Kennedy

Too bad Putin's cronies won't even make such a promise for Olympians in 2014.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-lawmaker-suggests-gay-athletes-prosecuted-2014-winter/story?id=19829868

Well, on the one hand, the particular Russian local legislator, who is not a member of the federal government, and who previously pushed for the new anti-gay laws, opined that athletes would not be immune from the law.

On the other hand:

Quote

The International Olympic Committee appears only cautiously optimistic that the games will be safe for gay athletes and fans, noting that it has sought assurances from Russian authorities.

"This legislation has just been passed into law and it remains to be seen whether and how it will be implemented, particularly as regards the Games in Sochi," the IOC said in an emailed statement to ABC News.

"The IOC has received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games," the statement continued.

So for now it's at best a mixed message with some assurances having been given.

Be that as it may, I grew up in a world in which if Americans are held to a standard that their rule of law will be at least slightly better than the Russians , that's still setting the bar pretty damn low.

[kelpdiver 2]

mpohl

3. If he is fighting for freedom he wouldn't be in Russia. Um, he didn't choose Russia, that's where his passport was frozen. Further, the United States government is trying to pin him with treason charges, it only makes sense to go to countries that are strong and independent enough to stand up to the U.S. and also have an interest in doing so.

He certainly chose Russia. You don't get from Hong Kong to Moscow by accident. For the reasons you listed right below.

[kelpdiver 2]

Andy9o8

Quote

The International Olympic Committee appears only cautiously optimistic that the games will be safe for gay athletes and fans, noting that it has sought assurances from Russian authorities.

This probably deserves it own thread. I have to say I'm disappointed to read that the IOC is seeking assurance, and urging the Russians on this matter. They should be insisting and demanding guarantees...it's not too late to relocate the Olympics. One of the mainstays that has all the venues could do it. The IOC put China through the ringer and made them behave like a fully civilized nation for the duration of the Summer games, Russia can do the same and discover human rights for 2 weeks.

The end of the article made me laugh:
"Mark Lazarus, the head of NBC Sports, has promised that if the law impacts any part of the Winter Games, "we will make sure we are acknowledging it and recognizing it," according to the Guardian."

(no, MSNBC doesn't count)

[tkhayes 142]

I hope another 1000 NSA insiders come out and do the same thing he did and rat out he government for the corrupt paranoid idiots that they are., it might be what stops this madness.

[swisschris62 0]

Unfortunately that most likely won't happen and even if they did I doubt it would stop the madness.
As for the olympics, Russia should feel honored to have been chosen to have them there. This hatred they have toward anyone who is gay starts at the very top and even if they make assurances it doesn't mean that some drunken gang of Russians will abide by them. The news tonight showed angry thugs beating up gay people and when the police did show up it wasn't the thugs getting arrested.
I'm sure there are lots of countries that would love to host the Olympics and appreciate all the revenue it'll bring. Russia isn't one of them.

[JerryBaumchen 1,069]

Hi tk,

Quote

I hope another 1000 . . .

I'm with you. There!!!!










Ooopsie, I take that back. Are they still listening? OK, you never heard of me; I don't exist.



JerryBaumchen

[Opie 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi tk,

***Ooopsie, I take that back. Are they still listening? OK, you never heard of me; I don't exist.



JerryBaumchen

Try a google search for "backpack" and "pressure cooker" in the same day and find out.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Opie

***Hi tk,

Quote

Ooopsie, I take that back. Are they still listening? OK, you never heard of me; I don't exist.



JerryBaumchen

Try a google search for "backpack" and "pressure cooker" in the same day and find out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/family-visited-by-joint-t_n_3690806.html

[NorrinRadd 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi tk,

Quote

I hope another 1000 . . .

I'm with you. There!!!!










Ooopsie, I take that back. Are they still listening? OK, you never heard of me; I don't exist.



JerryBaumchen

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[Darius11 12]

Quote

If he was brave he would have stayed in the U.S. - That's the logic of silent, invisible martyrs - he would have been "disappeared" or tried by the same confidential government courts and achieved nothing, parallel to sexual abuse victims in the military hoping for justice in military courts. It wasn't happening, they had to bring the story outside. An assault victim does not ask to be tried in front of a jury of his attackers.

It’s odd how many times people mistake our true friends for enemies and viceversa is it not?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rhaig 0]

tkhayes

I hope another 1000 NSA insiders come out and do the same thing he did and rat out he government for the corrupt paranoid idiots that they are., it might be what stops this madness.

What might also help is if the voting public quit being ignorant about the people they're voting for. And after elections are over, instead of being happy their guy won and being apathetic for another 4 years, they were critical of all the politicians in office regardless of where their vote landed or which party they belong to.

--
Rob

[NorrinRadd 0]

RobertMBlevins

***I hope another 1000 NSA insiders come out and do the same thing he did and rat out he government for the corrupt paranoid idiots that they are., it might be what stops this madness.

Okay...here's the problem with that statement:

In the type of job Snowden had, when you take that job they make you sign stuff and swear an oath, just like they do when you go into any branch of the service.

And when you do that of your own free will...you no longer get the privelege to make certain personal, moral-driven choices. It goes with the job you took. If you have a moral problem from something you see, or learn while you work that job, there are channels to be followed. Snowden knew that when he took the job.

If you violate that oath, not only are there penalties, but you shame the memory of all those before you who died serving under basically that same oath.

Which makes Snowden nothing more than a traitor to his country.
Quite the opposite. His country betrayed his trust.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[metalslug 31]

Quote

In the type of job Snowden had, when you take that job they make you sign stuff and swear an oath, just like they do when you go into any branch of the service.

And when you do that of your own free will...you no longer get the privelege to make certain personal, moral-driven choices.

That argument did not work for the defendants at the Nuremburg trials.

[kelpdiver 2]

RobertMBlevins

If you violate that oath, not only are there penalties, but you shame the memory of all those before you who died serving under basically that same oath.

You forgot that other oath - the one to serve the Constitution. Which is far more significant. The NSA/government is still trying to lie to us about the violations they're committing. Makes it pretty clear how effective it would be to follow channels.

Now where Snowden started straying and harming his country's interests is when he started talking about the spying the government does on China and others. Hardly surprising, but taking away our plausible deniability. He's no longer serving the people with that.

[tkhayes 142]

bullshit. sorry, but that is bullshit. If the people you elect decide to change the country to a secret police state with no way to address the concerns that this causes, then the absolute moral choice is to do what he did.

nothing to do with the 'oath' or whatever you want to call it. If you ask me to do immoral things, you can expect me to act in my version of 'moral', not yours.

[lawrocket 3]

Why hasn't anyone called Putin a racist yet for thumbing his nose at the President?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[tkhayes 142]

I give up....why?

[sfzombie13 308]

RobertMBlevins

Okay...here's the problem with that statement:

In the type of job Snowden had, when you take that job they make you sign stuff and swear an oath, just like they do when you go into any branch of the service.

And when you do that of your own free will...you no longer get the privelege to make certain personal, moral-driven choices. It goes with the job you took. If you have a moral problem from something you see, or learn while you work that job, there are channels to be followed. Snowden knew that when he took the job.

If you violate that oath, not only are there penalties, but you shame the memory of all those before you who died serving under basically that same oath.

Which makes Snowden nothing more than a traitor to his country.

i am pretty sure that you don't have to swear an oath to work for a security contractor. there are all kinds of other things you do, but swearing an oath is not one of them. and he is a traitor to his country exactly like a long list of people like jefferson, franklin, washington, etc. i just read an article on boing boing that talks about the fbi buying malware to put on smartphones. reported by the wall street journal. http://boingboing.net/2013/08/02/fbi-pays-for-malware-so-it-can.html

and this whole thing they dreamed up about closing embassies in the middle east, it is way too neat, too much like a movie script. and one comment, "when we put out this information, they usually decide not to do the attack". i can't remember who said it, but it tells me that they put out misinformation, and when nothing happens, they say "we stopped them by using the surveillance you are trying to stop."

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[jakee 1,265]

Quote

And when you do that of your own free will...you no longer get the privelege to make certain personal, moral-driven choices. It goes with the job you took. If you have a moral problem from something you see, or learn while you work that job, there are channels to be followed.

Irony = [that statement] + [your sig line]

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[WhatIsAUsername 0]

rhaig

***I hope another 1000 NSA insiders come out and do the same thing he did and rat out he government for the corrupt paranoid idiots that they are., it might be what stops this madness.

What might also help is if the voting public quit being ignorant about the people they're voting for. And after elections are over, instead of being happy their guy won and being apathetic for another 4 years, they were critical of all the politicians in office regardless of where their vote landed or which party they belong to.

Hey man, I think you're a little 'ignorant' (or as I prefer to call it, confused) about how things work. I think they were talking about the Osama regime prosecuting more heroic humanitarians than any other in history of America. But more importantly, what threw me off more, is when you started speaking of a place where citizens votes mean something to the 4 year contracted CEO position for the United States Government & Co. The president gets 'elected' by the college (that's the term they use, he's actually "appointed" by definition), the public has no say. A better way of looking at the modern day American presidency - if the cashier at Wal-Fart is rude or simply unhappy, you might bltch about it to customers in line. If the cashier spits in your face you don't go to the line and complain about it, you'll go to the corporation - the entity that placed him there.

The problem is - what citizens are considering a spit in the face... Illegal wiretapping (Godspeed snowden), unlawful solicitations (Ryan Fogle), extortion (IRS.gov), murder (youtube: collateral murder), rape (AbuGhraib), torture (Bradley manning), indefenite detention (160+ detainees in Guantanamo Bay being held up to 11 years WITH NO CHARGE, costing the public taxpayers 2.7 MILLION yearly PER INMATE - remember what I said about extortion?), etc etc...

But yet, American sheeple actually have to physically have spit in their face before they consider themselves being spat in the face... sigh.