NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily

[rushmc 18]

Anyone want to bet if this just is about Verison?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-2%20Special%20trail:Network%20front%20-%20special%20trail:Position1

Quote

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bertt 0]

Speculation: Verizon refused to give up records without a court order, so one was obtained. Other phone companies complied when asked, so no order was needed.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[rushmc 18]

Bertt

Speculation: Verizon refused to give up records without a court order, so one was obtained. Other phone companies complied when asked, so no order was needed.

Would be hard to bet against

I also wanted to note, I think this is a fed gov attitude. I think we have been moving this way for decades so, I do not think this is an Obama thing
But,as with Presidents before him, it is happening under his watch. Just more info coming out now

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

First you beat me to this I was just about to hit post.

Second Fuck OBAMA, seriously transparency my hairy ass.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[ianmdrennan 2]

Very disappointing, but sadly not surprising. Seems as though it's been going on for quite a while too.

Quote

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

rushmc

***Speculation: Verizon refused to give up records without a court order, so one was obtained. Other phone companies complied when asked, so no order was needed.

Would be hard to bet against

I also wanted to note, I think this is a fed gov attitude. I think we have been moving this way for decades so, I do not think this is an Obama thing
But,as with Presidents before him, it is happening under his watch. Just more info coming out now

Agreed. The choice to continue these practices reflects on him in the same light it does on those who started them.

Very disappointing.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Arvoitus 1]

If the US goverment uses billions to build places like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center then isn't it kind of obvious they need to some data to store?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

I also wanted to note, I think this is a fed gov attitude. I think we have been moving this way for decades so, I do not think this is an Obama thing
But,as with Presidents before him, it is happening under his watch. Just more info coming out now

Won't stop the tingly legs crowd - there's three types of deniers:

Type I - Obama is the essence of goodness and I'll back up anything and everything he does. With anger and passion. Facts don't matter.

Type II - Sure, Obama is doing some wrong stuff, but it's leftovers from the Bush legacy and he's just using those wrong systems that were put in place until he can fix them - for the children.

Type III - Sure, Obama is just as bad as the others, but it started with Bush. Obama is just perpetuating the problem, he didn't invent it.

Looks like you're a Type IV - I don't trust any of them, but I think it started a long, long time ago and the only solution is to take away the temptation by shrinking the whole darn system a lot.

I'm a Type V - I voted for Kodos

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[aphid 0]

Some experts have postulated theories that the primary reason the intelligence / law enforcement communities have failed to prevent crimes like 9/11 or Boston is that there is already so much data and information flooding in that the entire system is becoming unmanageable. I suppose it might be likened to the proverbial "needle in a haystack".

If that is indeed the case, perhaps the more data they have, the less likelihood they'll be able to do much with it.

On the other hand, if you do upset the wrong people there is the possibility they could manipulate or manufacture data to frame you for damned near anything.

But that would be just paranoid thinking.

[rehmwa 2]

aphid

On the other hand, if you do upset the wrong people there is the possibility they could manipulate or manufacture data to frame you for damned near anything.

But that would be just paranoid thinking.

Nonsense -
for the children

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

Bingo.

YEs, this started with the Bush Admin. And all the post 9/11 security bullshit. Hope and change, it turned out, was the transformation from, "Trust us. It's for your safety" to "FUCK YOU! It's for your safety."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 18]

ianmdrennan

******Speculation: Verizon refused to give up records without a court order, so one was obtained. Other phone companies complied when asked, so no order was needed.

Would be hard to bet against

I also wanted to note, I think this is a fed gov attitude. I think we have been moving this way for decades so, I do not think this is an Obama thing
But,as with Presidents before him, it is happening under his watch. Just more info coming out now

Agreed. The choice to continue these practices reflects on him in the same light it does on those who started them.

Very disappointing.

Agreed
Now
What can be done about it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Kennedy 0]

Arvoitus

If the US goverment uses billions to build places like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center then isn't it kind of obvious they need to some data to store?

Yep, scooping up every phone call is bad enough. But Utah is much more interested in the interwebz.
AT&T engineer: NSA built secret rooms in our facilities

wikipedia: Room 641a

Quote

Room 641A is located in the SBC Communications building at 611 Folsom Street, San Francisco, three floors of which were occupied by AT&T before SBC purchased AT&T. The room was referred to in internal AT&T documents as the SG3 [Study Group 3] Secure Room. It is fed by fiber optic lines from beam splitters installed in fiber optic trunks carrying Internet backbone traffic and, as analyzed by J. Scott Marcus, a former CTO for GTE and a former adviser to the FCC, has access to all Internet traffic that passes through the building, and therefore "the capability to enable surveillance and analysis of internet content on a massive scale, including both overseas and purely domestic traffic." Former director of the NSA’s World Geopolitical and Military Analysis Reporting Group, William Binney, has estimated that 10 to 20 such facilities have been installed throughout the nation.

Report: NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers

Quote

Officials at the White House and the NSA declined immediate comment. Verizon spokesman Ed McFadden declined to comment.

Verizon's biggest rival, AT&T Inc, did not provide any immediate comment when asked if the government had made a similar request for its data.
snip
In 2005, the New York Times reported that the NSA was wiretapping Americans without warrants on international calls. Los Angeles Times and USA Today later reported that the agency also had unchecked access to records on domestic calls.

In addition, a former AT&T technician, Mark Klein, said that a room accessible only with NSA clearance in the carrier's main San Francisco hub received perfect copies of all transmissions.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lawrocket 3]

Use Verizon or the terrorists win.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kennedy 0]

Either you're with Verizon, or you are with the terrorists.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andy9o8 0]

The last time "something was done about it" was the spate of legislation that immediately followed the Watergate-era revelations of Nixon Admin abuses. And that was only possible because both houses of congress were overwhelmingly controlled by the one party.

That political landscape doesn't exist now; and frankly, politicians of any stripe are only very very rarely inclined to place limits on govt power, since govt power is what they're all about.

So,what will actually be done is probably.... nothing.

[BillyVance 34]

Kennedy

Either you're with Verizon, or you are with the terrorists.

I'm with Sprint so I'm a terrorist?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[quade 3]

What did you think the NSA was going to do after "The Patriot Act" was signed into place?

"The Patriot Act" Newspeak at its finest.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

BillyVance

***Either you're with Verizon, or you are with the terrorists.

I'm with Sprint so I'm a terrorist?

Sprint didn't comply with the request, and because you're their only customer, the NSA said 'fuck it,' and went back to storing att/verizon data.

[kelpdiver 2]

lawrocket

Bingo.

YEs, this started with the Bush Admin. And all the post 9/11 security bullshit. Hope and change, it turned out, was the transformation from, "Trust us. It's for your safety" to "FUCK YOU! It's for your safety."

Carnivore was Janet Reno's pet project.

[kelpdiver 2]

aphid

Some experts have postulated theories that the primary reason the intelligence / law enforcement communities have failed to prevent crimes like 9/11 or Boston is that there is already so much data and information flooding in that the entire system is becoming unmanageable. I suppose it might be likened to the proverbial "needle in a haystack".

If that is indeed the case, perhaps the more data they have, the less likelihood they'll be able to do much with it.

substantial strides have been made in the past 10 years around Big Data and with natural language. IBM's Watson project (winning Jeopardy against the best all time players) is an example of it. Many startups with new approaches to parallel processing, or to linguistics have been created.

[Bolas 5]

aphid

Some experts have postulated theories that the primary reason the intelligence / law enforcement communities have failed to prevent crimes like 9/11 or Boston is that there is already so much data and information flooding in that the entire system is becoming unmanageable. I suppose it might be likened to the proverbial "needle in a haystack".

If that is indeed the case, perhaps the more data they have, the less likelihood they'll be able to do much with it.

This. They've gone from targetting individuals to collecting data on everyone to get snippets on certain people.

Hell, might as well partner with Facebook and Google and sell the marketing info.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 3]

Bolas

Hell, might as well partner with Facebook and Google and sell the marketing info.

Oh, that's quaint. I've always assumed FB was secretly run by the NSA to begin with.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

quade

What did you think the NSA was going to do after "The Patriot Act" was signed into place?

"The Patriot Act" Newspeak at its finest.

Quade is correct. All the warnings about the Patriot Act by the tin-foil hat wearing civil libertarians are being shown to be quite well founded.

Makes one wonder just why the President took time to warn us all to pay no heed to those people who question government power and authority over us.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kennedy 0]

Iago

******Bingo.

YEs, this started with the Bush Admin. And all the post 9/11 security bullshit. Hope and change, it turned out, was the transformation from, "Trust us. It's for your safety" to "FUCK YOU! It's for your safety."

Carnivore was Janet Reno's pet project.

I always wondered if Carnivore was just a smoke-screen to draw attention away from something else they were working on.

You're behind the times. Look into NarusInsight, DCSNet, and their "anti fragile" friends.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*