More missdirection from the left on ACA

[marks2065 0]

The left keeps lieing about Obamacare, when will people on the left start pushing back on this subject?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

[normiss 330]

Premiums?
We keep being told the company will drop healthcare plans next year because the government will offer a "plan".
I can't wait.

[airdvr 180]

They don't want to talk about it because the individuals it was designed to help didn't really want help, won't buy the insurance, and pay no income taxes so the government is without a device to force them to buy. You and I on the other hand are about to get a train pulled on us. Welkome to Amerika comrade.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[marks2065 0]

the premiums for my shop are 4 times what they were in 2007 and an other huge increase is on the way in 7 months. I have put a limit on what I will pay for my employees health care and all the increases will be their responsibility. they did not like that but maybe if every employer does the same the people will run the Dem's out of town an actually start to fix the issue of health care.

[normiss 330]

I'm still surprised and a bit tweaked that it is somehow constitutional for the gooberment to forcibly require us to purchase a commodity from a private industry that has pricing based entirely on profit.

It's a Free BOHICA card for insurance companies. Well, on top of the ones they already have I suppose.

[wmw999 1,623]

As a collective organ, the people of the US aren't paying for as much medical care as they receive. The goobermint, one part or another of it, picks up the rest. It's getting worse.

EMTALA is part of it, and our unwillingness to let cute sick children and people by the side of the road die is part of it.

We all want pills to fix our shitty lifestyle choices (like lots of meat, lots of beer, fries with that, few or no veggies, little exercise, etc). Long before ACA, my (former) company's fastest-rising expense was employee health care.

The current fee-for-service model rewards the maximum amount of medical care. A much better model would be a maintenance-of-health model, against a large enough number of people for it to be reasonable.

Consider if we paid the police by the incident -- the investigated accident, the investigated robbery, the stopped assault. Their work model might be different.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rhaig 0]

wmw999

The current fee-for-service model rewards the maximum amount of medical care. A much better model would be a maintenance-of-health model, against a large enough number of people for it to be reasonable.

There are doctors who are going to a subscription-based plan.

just google subscription based medical care

lots of articles about many places switching billing models.

--
Rob

[normiss 330]

THIS we doesn't want pills to fix anything.
I do enough damage to my liver, thank you.

Personally, I've always had good medical coverage. For myself, my kids, my DP (although it drives me nuts to talk to the insurance company when they default to "he" when my DP is referenced) :D

It's just part of being an adult, responsibility. I may play like a child sometimes, but life is serious business.


In some areas, the local governments have started assessing fees to government services.

[marks2065 0]

rhaig

***
The current fee-for-service model rewards the maximum amount of medical care. A much better model would be a maintenance-of-health model, against a large enough number of people for it to be reasonable.

There are doctors who are going to a subscription-based plan.

just google subscription based medical care

lots of articles about many places switching billing models.

the ACA paperwork is a huge expense for the doctors. wasn't the ACA supposed to make things easier and cheaper?

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

A much better model would be a maintenance-of-health model, against a large enough number of people for it to be reasonable.

well, we don't have that either

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 1,623]

Nope, we sure don't. I think ACA has got to be the first step into something more sustainable in the long run, because it's not the long run by itself.

Personally, I like Tom Aiello's plan best. But we have to be in a whole lot more pain to get there.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

Nope, we sure don't. I think ACA has got to be the first step into something more sustainable in the long run, because it's not the long run by itself.

Look at it. It's moving in the opposite direction.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[airdvr 180]

wmw999

Nope, we sure don't. I think ACA has got to be the first step into something more sustainable in the long run, because it's not the long run by itself.

Personally, I like Tom Aiello's plan best. But we have to be in a whole lot more pain to get there.

Wendy P.

Correct. Unfortunately the next step will be government run single payer which is what the left wanted all along. This abortion of a health care system will fold under its own weight.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[normiss 330]

Upcoming ACA 'battles'

I can't wait to see the marketing campaign to tell a family on poverty that paying $300 or so, per person, per month, is cheaper than what they have.

IMO, this is going to get crazy expensive and fast. For the taxpayers.

[marks2065 0]

normiss

Upcoming ACA 'battles'

I can't wait to see the marketing campaign to tell a family on poverty that paying $300 or so, per person, per month, is cheaper than what they have.

IMO, this is going to get crazy expensive and fast. For the taxpayers.

It is always the hard working Americans that get screwed and are forced to pay for the lazy. most of us would agree that some people need help and most ae willing to help, but way to many take advantage of the good nature of the good Americans and now we are forced to let this happen. We are given the choice of paying for the lazy or go to jail. makes me want to become one of the lazy people. Unfortunately my principles and pride won't allow me to do that.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

it drives me nuts to talk to the insurance company when they default to "he" when my DP is referenced

I've always wondered how the 3 of you work that out. Oh, well; none o' my biz.

[kallend 1,259]

marks2065

***Upcoming ACA 'battles'

I can't wait to see the marketing campaign to tell a family on poverty that paying $300 or so, per person, per month, is cheaper than what they have.

IMO, this is going to get crazy expensive and fast. For the taxpayers.

It is always the hard working Americans that get screwed and are forced to pay for the lazy. most of us would agree that some people need help and most ae willing to help, but way to many take advantage of the good nature of the good Americans and now we are forced to let this happen..

You've been doing that for decades. It was just well hidden before.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 330]

You're horrible at math.

[airdvr 180]

Quote

You've been doing that for decades. It was just well hidden before.

Well I don't know about anyone else but I feel much better now.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

146% increase in CA
30 million still uninsured
family insurance to 20k per year

Cool

More lies from the Dems and and Admin exposed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

rushmc

146% increase in CA
30 million still uninsured
family insurance to 20k per year

Cool

More lies from the Dems and and Admin exposed

Oh, just another issue the voters won't care about when they go to the polls in 2014.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

You've been doing that for decades. It was just well hidden before.

So you'll agree with my previous assertions that what makes the current Admin so different than the previous ones is not the systematic dilution of rights, but that it is so "FUCK YOU" about it?

Prior admins: "We don't assassinate people."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU! We got Bin Laden."

Prior admins: "We don't do investigations without warrants."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU! We'll wiretap and secret subpoena away."

Prior admins: "We never deny right to counsel to anybody."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU! Tsarnaev needs to talk.

Prior admins: "We don't deal guns to security threats."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU! We sent them to Mexico. Double FUCK YOU - so we could get evidence of how bad guns are."

Prior admins: "I hate when the Supreme Court overturns laws."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU, Marbury v. Madison. I'll deny your existence."

Prior admins: "We want to avoid taxing you all dry."
Present Admin: "FUCK YOU! We'll fuck you up with our taxation power."

The present Admin is just so "Fuck you" about its approach.

But note - it wasn't Obama who passed ACA.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bertt 0]

Watching President Obama on TV right now speaking about how insurance premiums will go down when I can choose among 5 insurance companies instead of just 2. Somehow he misses the fact that mandates for insurance companies such as coverage for pre-existing illness will make rates go up, and that the underlying cost of health care puts a floor on insurance rates no matter how many insurance companies are involved.
Does he not understand economics, or does he think we don't?

Rant over - as you were.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bertt

Watching President Obama on TV right now speaking about how insurance premiums will go down when I can choose among 5 insurance companies instead of just 2. Somehow he misses the fact that mandates for insurance companies such as coverage for pre-existing illness will make rates go up, and that the underlying cost of health care puts a floor on insurance rates no matter how many insurance companies are involved.
Does he not understand economics, or does he think we don't?

Rant over - as you were.

The people that worship him do not.
To the rest he just says Fuck You.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Bertt

Watching President Obama on TV right now speaking about how insurance premiums will go down when I can choose among 5 insurance companies instead of just 2. Somehow he misses the fact that mandates for insurance companies such as coverage for pre-existing illness will make rates go up, and that the underlying cost of health care puts a floor on insurance rates no matter how many insurance companies are involved.

Does he not understand economics, or does he think we don't?

Obama is a _very_ smart man who has a fine understanding of economics. I doubt he missed anything.

Like most big budget items in American politics you'd do best to forget about all the "liberal" and "conservative" hype politicians use to distract us from what's going on and follow the money.

ACA means that PhRMA (the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America) will have millions of new customers buying their products using government mandated and subsidized health insurance.

They bought a seat at the negotiating table with some drug discounts, got things they didn't like removed such as the re-import provision, and once satisfied spun up a pair of 501(c)(4) organizations to run a $150M advertising campaign supporting ACA which was coordinated with the White House.

Obama and his Democrats are corporatists in bed with those guys just like Bush 43 and his Republicans which controlled both houses of Congress when Medicare Part D was passed funneling $1T over 10 years to PhRMA member companies.

PhRMA liked that one so much they thanked Billy Tauzin(R) for his help passing the bill with a seven figure job as their president.

[QUOTE]Rant over - as you were.

Here's more food for thought:

ACA has minimum medical loss ratios of 80 (large groups) - 85% (individuals and small groups) which is to say for a given $1 in premiums they must spend at least 80 cents on health care, or that they're allowed a 25% mark-up.

Before ACA they could profit more by negotiating lower costs with providers.

Now the only way to make more will be to spend more to collect a bigger sales commission.

In a free market they might have to compete on price so that wouldn't happen although we do not have a free market.

The McCarran-Ferguson act exempts insurance companies from federal anti-trust laws including those on price fixing. In theory they're limited by state anti-trust laws although in practice their contracts often have arbitration clauses which those courts have historically recognized.