FOX News: Traditional gender roles critical to happiness

[billvon 2,414]

Here's the article:
======================
To be happy, we must admit women and men aren't 'equal'
By Suzanne Venker
February 05, 2013

Norman Vincent Peale, author of "The Power of Positive Thinking," once wrote these words: “Change your thoughts, and you change your world.”

His statement is highlighted at the beginning of my new book, "How to Choose a Husband and Make Peace with Marriage." Its premise is that if women want to be successful in love, they should reject the cultural script they’ve been sold and adopt a whole new view of men and marriage. . . . .

You see, the problem with equality is that it implies two things are interchangeable – meaning one thing can be substituted for the other with no ramifications. That is what feminists would have us believe, and anyone who contradicts this dogma is branded sexist.

But the truth must be heard. Being equal in worth, or value, is not the same as being identical, interchangeable beings. Men and women may be capable of doing many of the same things, but that doesn’t mean they want to. That we don’t have more female CEOs or stay-at-home dads proves this in spades.

Unless, of course, you’re beholden to feminism. In that case, you’ll believe the above is evidence of discrimination. You’ll believe what feminists taught you to believe: that gender is a social construct.

Those of us with children know better. We know little girls love their dolls and boys just want to kick that ball. This doesn’t mean men can’t take care of babies or women can’t play sports. It just means each gender has its own energy that flows in a specific direction. For God’s sake, let it flow.
=====================

The picture at the top of the article? A gay couple being married.

[Skyrad 0]

This whole argument hinges on the definition of 'equal' to have a usable definition the word needs to be placed in context. The argument is simplistic and flawed in my opinion. Different in this context should not mean lesser. Both genders have their strengths and where one gender may lack one quality the other may be stronger in that area, therefore men and women are equal. The writer of the article sounds like an arrogant mysoginist.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[deltron80 0]

Idiot traditionalists think they can put the genie back in the bottle. Not gonna happen. Marriage is dead.

[labrys 0]

So... this argument is basically "that fact that you've traditionally been denied equal opportunity is proof that you don't deserve equal opportunity?

Owned by Remi #?

[billvon 2,414]

>this argument is basically "that fact that you've traditionally been denied equal
>opportunity is proof that you don't deserve equal opportunity?

There's a more basic problem than that - the author doesn't really understand the issue. She says: "You see, the problem with equality is that it implies two things are interchangeable – meaning one thing can be substituted for the other with no ramifications. . . .Being equal in worth, or value, is not the same as being identical, interchangeable beings."

No one is claiming that. No one is claiming that you could exchange a man for a woman and have an identical person. You can't even exchange a man for another man and have an identical, interchangeable person. Everyone - men, women, black, white, straight, gay etc - is different from everyone else.

However, it is very important that they have the same opportunities to be the people they want to be. (IMO)

[labrys 0]

True

Owned by Remi #?

[rehmwa 2]

your post and Skyrad's post seem a bit odd. You are both essentially restating the article and then claiming your statements refutes it - can you clarify then your disagreement? or are you just inferring something in addition to what was written

edit: I guess what I'm seeing is just a semantics difference in the definition of equal - but everyone acknowledging differences in gender. But certainly differences in individuals are a strength. Generalizations by gender are interesting, but not nearly as powerful as individual traits regardless.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

your post and Skyrad's post seem a bit odd. You are both essentially restating the article and then claiming your statements refutes it - can you clarify then your disagreement? or are you just inferring something in addition to what was written

edit: I guess what I'm seeing is just a semantics difference in the definition of equal - but everyone acknowledging differences in gender. But certainly differences in individuals are a strength. Generalizations by gender are interesting, but not nearly as powerful as individual traits regardless.

OK, let's put it this way: just because my nipples don't look really hot when they're erect, doesn't mean that I should be paid or promoted more.

[labrys 0]

Quote

OK, let's put it this way: just because my nipples don't look really hot when they're erect, doesn't mean that I should be paid or promoted more.

The hotness of nipples is purely gender free and individually judged. Post pictures.

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 18]

Actually, this point, debate, topic, whatever you want to call it, started with some research done in the UK by a UK university that I heard about a few weeks ago

Now, I did not read your link but is Fox really to take the heat of your disdain?
Or are they just the only one reporting on the research so they are the real bastards here?

Never mind

You hate fox anyway

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Oh excuse me

You (again) provided no link

But, it this what they were talking about?

BTW. it is a Norwegian study reported by a UK paper

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/9572187/Couples-who-share-the-housework-are-more-likely-to-divorce-study-finds.html


It would be an interesting effort to compare what you posted but

No link

go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Oh

I see now

It is about the picture

MEH

And thanks for the exercise

Looking into this gives some good insight as to where you might get you news

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

No link go figure

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/05/to-be-happy-must-admit-women-and-men-arent-equal/

Took me 15 seconds on Google to find it, given that he posted an exact cut & paste from it.

As the saying goes....
http://www.nysportsjournalism.com/storage/GeicoCaveman.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1256716704972

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

No link go figure

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/05/to-be-happy-must-admit-women-and-men-arent-equal/

Took me 15 seconds on Google to find it, given that he posted an exact cut & paste from it.

As the saying goes....
http://www.nysportsjournalism.com/storage/GeicoCaveman.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1256716704972

Didnt take me long either

but
That is not the point


In the end I a glad he did it though

It indicates where he reads to get his news

Something he rarely shows

(hence, often no links)

While others get excoriated for not providing

Blatant hypocrisy and double standard

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Just to be clear

I am NOT saying it is billvon's hypocrisy or double standard

I do not recall he asking for a link when not provided

However, many here do ask often and with vitriol

But they do not ask him, or others they agree with for links for that matter

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[muff528 3]

I think the point of the thread really has nothing to do with the content, i.e, Venker's opinions with regard to feminism. She is a reasonably well-known anti-feminist writer and the niece of Phyllis Schlafly. She is an opinion contributor to Fox and to the Huffington Post (among others). I think that Bill's post was only to point out that Fox has the audacity to publish her opinions, thereby somehow revealing their (Fox's) conservative bias in news reporting. Sort of like how CNN employs that wackadoodle, Michael Kimmel, to discredit her, revealing their liberal bias.

[rushmc 18]

Could be

I think it was more aimed toward Bill's dislike of FOX

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Quote

>this argument is basically "that fact that you've traditionally been denied equal
>opportunity is proof that you don't deserve equal opportunity?

There's a more basic problem than that - the author doesn't really understand the issue. She says: "You see, the problem with equality is that it implies two things are interchangeable – meaning one thing can be substituted for the other with no ramifications. . . .Being equal in worth, or value, is not the same as being identical, interchangeable beings."

No one is claiming that. No one is claiming that you could exchange a man for a woman and have an identical person. You can't even exchange a man for another man and have an identical, interchangeable person. Everyone - men, women, black, white, straight, gay etc - is different from everyone else.

However, it is very important that they have the same opportunities to be the people they want to be. (IMO)

Damn. Have to agree with Bill. Ouch!

Yes, she goes off the track by claiming equal and interchangeable are synonyms. She starts to get back on track when she recognizes we can be different and still be equal, but she doesn't recognize how that effects her conclusion.

SOME women would benefit from a more traditional female role. Some need to be CEOs and have a stay at home husband. And some should stay away from writing books telling other women how to live their lives. IMO

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[wmw999 2,134]

Thanks.

I see it as the difference between acknowledging that there are some innate differences, and forcing decisions based on those differences.

Why is this a problem? Because the overlap is so large that you're forcing men into manly-jobs, and women into girly-jobs, who are utterly unfit for those jobs based on their individual makeups.

It's not that women were happy in the 50's when their choices were mother, nurse, secretary and teacher. Those were the years that brought about Betty Friedan's book The Feminine Mystique, which arguably set of some of the feminist movement.

It's just as wrong, however, to say that women shouldn't aspire to be mommies, or that men shouldn't aspire to be lumberjacks. It's just to say that individuals should be judged as such.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Now, I did not read your link but is Fox really to take the heat of your disdain?
Or are they just the only one reporting on the research so they are the real bastards here?

Well, if you actually had read the quoted text in Bill's post you would know that it is not reporting on any research.

(I actually also think that as a point of etiquette Bill should have given a link, but that's not a good reason for jumping to conclusions without even reading what was provided.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

It indicates where he reads to get his news

Yeah, the link shows it comes from Fox News. Just like the title of the thread says it comes from... Fox News.

Bill gave the authors name and the news outlet that published it, hence showing exactly where it came from. Quite different from the totally unidentified and unsourced quotes that some other people post.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

Ah, did you see the subject line?

A simple search does show that fox is only reporting on the study

Why put it in the subject line

And Bill rarely includes links

And you, as a matter of fact, asked me for links

With less than courtesy I might add

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Ah, did you see the subject line?

A simple search does show that fox is only reporting on the study

Then maybe you should do a better search. The article Bill quotes does not talk about any study. None whatsoever.

Quote

And you, as a matter of fact, asked me for links

I'm sure I have done. Was it after a post in which you clearly identified both the website and author it came from?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Was it after a post in which you clearly identified both the website and author it came from?

If so, provide a link!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

just because my nipples don't look really hot when they're erect, doesn't mean that I should be paid or promoted more.

unless you are a nipple model

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants