'Father of the Prius' Declares Electric Cars 'Not Viable'

[rushmc 18]

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Hybrid car pioneer and “father of the Prius” Takeshi Uchiyamada says the billions poured into developing battery electric vehicles have ultimately been in vain. "Because of its shortcomings--driving range, cost and recharging time--the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars," said Uchiyamada. "We need something entirely new."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/04/us-autos-electric-hydrogen-idUSBRE91304Z20130204

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Recent moves by Japan's two largest automakers suggest that the electric car, after more than 100 years of development and several brief revivals, still is not ready for prime time - and may never be

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 140]

not a replacement for most conventional cars. But still a viable market for short runs, and certainly a model to look at when the oil runs out.

[jakee 1,259]

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Hybrid car pioneer and “father of the Prius” Takeshi Uchiyamada says the billions poured into developing battery electric vehicles have ultimately been in vain. "Because of its shortcomings--driving range, cost and recharging time--the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars," said Uchiyamada. "We need something entirely new."

Well, kinda makes sense really, since he and his company are pushing the main competition to the electric car.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

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Hybrid car pioneer and “father of the Prius” Takeshi Uchiyamada says the billions poured into developing battery electric vehicles have ultimately been in vain. "Because of its shortcomings--driving range, cost and recharging time--the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars," said Uchiyamada. "We need something entirely new."

Well, kinda makes sense really, since he and his company are pushing the main competition to the electric car.

What you're suggesting cannot be. That would be unethical.

[billvon 2,435]

Funny, I remember people talking about how the Prius would never make it. You'll have to replace the battery every few years, and it will cost thousands! No one will pay that sort of premium for an untested hybrid system. Only smug environmentalists will buy one. Everyone else will just buy a Honda Civic.

But in any case, recent items in the news:

===========================
Chevy Volt tops customer satisfaction survey again

High efficiency was a bit of a trend in this year's Consumer Reports' consumer satisfaction survey, with the Toyota Camry Hybrid, Prius, Prius C and Nissan Leaf all scoring highly, Ingram writes. The Chevy Volt electric car topped the list for the second year in a row.

. . .The Volt is going down a storm with owners. As The Detroit News reports, sales in the first 10 months of 2012 are 286 percent greater than the same time last year.

That suggests that and even greater number of owners would still be happy to continue with the Volt than those in last year's survey.

Volt sales are expected to dip a little when November figures emerge, thanks to restricted supply. In recent months, the Volt has consistently beat its own previous highest sales figures.
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Motor Trend' names Tesla Model S as Car of the Year
November 13, 2012
The award is one of the most important in the auto industry -- and it's going to a startup electric-car maker

In a move sure to shock the auto world, Motor Trend has named a startup company's plug-in electric vehicle as its coveted Car of the Year. The winner: Tesla's Model S sedan.

What's more, it wasn't even close: Motor Trend says it was first time time "in memory" that every judge agreed. In order to win for 2013, the Tesla had to beat luxury sedans like Lexus GS and BMW 3 Series and sports car like Porsche 911 and Subaru BRZ.

While the auto world is awash in awards, Motor Trend's nod is one of the most closely watched, along with the North American Car of the Year. The magazine didn't hold back its praise for the Tesla sedan.

"It drives like a sports car, eager and agile and instantly responsive. But it's also as smoothly effortless as a Rolls-Royce, can carry almost as much stuff as a Chevy Equinox, and is more efficient than a Toyota Prius," Motor Trend writes "By any measure, the Tesla Model S is a truly remarkable automobile, perhaps the most accomplished all-new luxury car since the original Lexus LS 400."
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[brenthutch 388]

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Funny, I remember people talking about how the Prius would never make it. You'll have to replace the battery every few years, and it will cost thousands! No one will pay that sort of premium for an untested hybrid system. Only smug environmentalists will buy one. Everyone else will just buy a Honda Civic.

But in any case, recent items in the news:

===========================
Chevy Volt tops customer satisfaction survey again

High efficiency was a bit of a trend in this year's Consumer Reports' consumer satisfaction survey, with the Toyota Camry Hybrid, Prius, Prius C and Nissan Leaf all scoring highly, Ingram writes. The Chevy Volt electric car topped the list for the second year in a row.

. . .The Volt is going down a storm with owners. As The Detroit News reports, sales in the first 10 months of 2012 are 286 percent greater than the same time last year.

That suggests that and even greater number of owners would still be happy to continue with the Volt than those in last year's survey.

Volt sales are expected to dip a little when November figures emerge, thanks to restricted supply. In recent months, the Volt has consistently beat its own previous highest sales figures.
=============================
The same powers of self delusion required to convince oneself that the purchase of an electric car is wise thing, are the same ones needed to delude oneself that they are happy with it.

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[billvon 2,435]

>The same powers of self delusion required to convince oneself that the purchase of
>an electric car is wise thing, are the same ones needed to delude oneself that they are
>happy with it.

Sorta like people who own guns, eh?

[skiskyrock 0]

note that he didn't say electric cars weren't not viable, he said "electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars". Neither are motorcycles or pickup trucks, but both remain viable vehicles within their intended use.

[Andy9o8 0]

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note that he didn't say electric cars weren't not viable, he said "electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars". Neither are motorcycles or pickup trucks, but both remain viable vehicles within their intended use.

That's the point right there.
When electric cars can fully re-charge as quickly as liquid-fueled cars, and consistently have the same power and range, then they can look to fill the same niche.
In the meantime, I'm hoarding dilithium. But I can't tell you why. Yet.

[babz 0]

Dilithium? Definitely crystals..

Electric cars are a bit of a pipe dream, as for the refueling and range issues are addressed.. The fact batteries are slow charge, heavy weight makes them a crap storage medium for a car.. However, as a method of powering the vehicle (vs combustion engine) it is a good idea and much less complex.

Top gear did a decent whack at it (in their usual jokey way) of putting a generator in a car, and powering the electric car from a generator rather than a battery.. I remember seeing some car companies are looking at this now to see whether its viable...

[brenthutch 388]

The THE HAMMERHEAD EAGLE i-THRUST, a fantastic car!

https://www.google.com/search?q=THE+HAMMERHEAD+EAGLE+i-THRUST&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=5iQRUcWgO_St0AGX2IHIDw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=950

[billvon 2,435]

>Top gear did a decent whack at it (in their usual jokey way) of putting a generator in a
>car, and powering the electric car from a generator rather than a battery.. I remember
>seeing some car companies are looking at this now to see whether its viable...

Cars on sale that do this:

Chevy Volt
Prius Plug-in
Ford C-Max Energi
Ford Fusion Energi
Fisker Karma

[babz 0]

Cheers.. it was the Fisker that I'd seen... the only one of the others I'd drive..

[regulator 0]

Maybe Takeshi Uchiyamada can coordinate with Elon Musk and make the electric car more viable than it is now.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/elon-musk-boeing-787-battery-fundamentally-unsafe-381627/

[kallend 1,649]

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note that he didn't say electric cars weren't not viable, he said "electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars". Neither are motorcycles or pickup trucks, but both remain viable vehicles within their intended use.

That's the point right there.
When electric cars can fully re-charge as quickly as liquid-fueled cars, and consistently have the same power and range, then they can look to fill the same niche.
In the meantime, I'm hoarding dilithium. But I can't tell you why. Yet.

Li2 is a lie, too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,352]

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...of putting a generator in a car, and powering the electric car from a generator rather than a battery.. I remember seeing some car companies are looking at this now to see whether its viable...

Every train you see out there is powered that way. The huge diesels drive generators. The power is delivered to the ground by electric motors right by the wheels.

Part of the reason is that nobody has been able to come up with a mechanical transmission that is durable enough.

The really huge dump trucks that are used at open pit mines are set up the same way.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 0]

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note that he didn't say electric cars weren't not viable, he said "electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars". Neither are motorcycles or pickup trucks, but both remain viable vehicles within their intended use.

That's the point right there.
When electric cars can fully re-charge as quickly as liquid-fueled cars, and consistently have the same power and range, then they can look to fill the same niche.
In the meantime, I'm hoarding dilithium. But I can't tell you why. Yet.

Li2 is a lie, too.

Yeah, right. Next thing you'll be telling us warp drive is impossible, too.
Obviously you're in on it.

[billvon 2,435]

>Li2 is a lie, too.

So is the cake.

[billvon 2,435]

>I am a little curious why Chevy went with a four cylinder IC generator instead of a
>turbine APU.

Few reasons, I think:

Ease of service. Every car service station in the US can change spark plugs and fix timing belts.

Effciency. A turbine wins in terms of horsepower per pound, but overall it's not as efficient in terms of kilowatt-hours per gallon of gas.

Gearing. It's a lot easier to gear a gas engine down to drive the wheels than a turbine engine, which can easily spin at 50,000 RPM.

>As far as the replacement for the mass-produced gasoline cars I think CNG is a
>better option for now.

CNG is a great option as an alternative to gasoline, although it's something of an orthogonal solution. With CNG you change very little; basically change the fuel system a bit and put in a new tank and you're done. There's only one CNG car on the market now although it is very widely used for commercial vehicles (buses, trucks etc) since engines last much longer on it.

[billvon 2,435]

>I had the impression the Volt was an all electric drive train and the
>generator was supplying E power instead of mechanical.

Yeah, that was the impression they gave everyone. Turns out the engine is linked directly to the wheels, much like in the Prius drivetrain. (More efficient that way in any case.)

[diablopilot 2]

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not a replacement for most conventional cars. But still a viable market for short runs, and certainly a model to look at when the oil runs out.

Not really. The power generation is just as wasteful of resources as if you were using petroleum products to power the vehicle directly, and the infrastructure to "refuel" them is not in place, nor will it be easy or economical to establish it.

The alternative fuel that has the energy companies worried enough to be looking into it themselves is biofuels, and of those bio diesel is the best answer. Fuel aircraft, trains, long haul trucks, fleet vehicles, and if the eco retards would become educated the multitude compact diesel cars available from major manufacturers world wide.

The infrastructure to distribute is in place, the sources are many, the milage ber unit is high, and the technology has already been researched.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,435]

>Not really. The power generation is just as wasteful of resources as if you were using
>petroleum products to power the vehicle directly

EV's are considerably more efficient than gasoline powered vehicles. In other words, if your choice is:

1) A modern gasoline powered car or
2) A modern power plant fired by gasoline charging an electric car

then 2) is considerably more efficient. (Less gasoline burned per mile, less pollution etc.) EV's get between 70 and 100 miles per gallon equivalent.

[billvon 2,435]

>Which is why I find it interesting we only have parallel hybird cars instead of pure EV
>series hybrids. If a series hybrid car was available that got 70-100 mpg it might be
>worth $30k provided the longevity is there.

Well, most hybrids nowadays are series-parallel; the engine can drive either the wheels or a generator. In general a pure series will always be less efficient because of the extra two conversion steps.

>Or, we could all take a step back from high-tech fuel injection and look into developing
>vapor carburetors.

What does that buy you?

[tkhayes 140]

that's not actually true. As far as energy output, a gas engine wastes a huge amount of energy in heat and other wastes. Electric motors use 95+% of their energy converting to torque and RPM. Electric generation is pretty efficient as well, much of the energy consumed goes directly to power output. Batteries simply do not hold enough power (yet).

The cost of electric generation compared to the comparable output from fossil fuels is unmatched.

[davjohns 1]

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note that he didn't say electric cars weren't not viable, he said "electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars". Neither are motorcycles or pickup trucks, but both remain viable vehicles within their intended use.

That's the point right there.
When electric cars can fully re-charge as quickly as liquid-fueled cars, and consistently have the same power and range, then they can look to fill the same niche.
In the meantime, I'm hoarding dilithium. But I can't tell you why. Yet.

Li2 is a lie, too.

Yeah, right. Next thing you'll be telling us warp drive is impossible, too.
Obviously you're in on it.

Does anyone else notice that Hollywood depiction of warp drive and halucinogens are indistinguishable from each other?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.