Should UAVs be used to kill Mexican Narco Terrorists?

[Andy9o8 0]

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I wonder if those who support legalization of drugs have thought through what the drug dealers would do to earn a living when their cash cow was gone. Do you think they will just retreat from the world and grow old?

No, but it might cause a certain amount of natural attrition over time, as their stock-in-trade - activity that has been deemed unlawful - shrinks. Just like animals out in the wild competing over food sources, where species population often varies directly with food supplies.

As an historical example, although organized crime has always existed throughout human history, and existed in the US well prior to Prohibition, the Sicilian-based Mafia only came into its own in the US once Prohibition was passed. That gave them a foothold to grow their organized crime network to a sustainable level (i.e., dealing in other vices and contraband) that was able to survive Prohibition's eventual repeal. And the Mafia in the US became the template for large-scale, successful organized crime in the 20th Century US. So had Prohibition never been enacted, the history of modern organized crime in the US might very well be far different today than it actually is.

[Arvoitus 1]

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If, they break the law while under the influence should they just have to go to re-hab so they won't be treated as criminals?

No, if they break the law under influence, drive a car for instance, they should be punished for that behavior. Not the substance usage but whatever criminal behavior they engaged in. However they should obviously get help for their substance abuse during their incarceration, if the crime leads to that, but the substance abuse alone shouldn't result in jail time.

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Would legalization of dope reduce the number of break-ins, car burglaries and armed robberies so someone can get drug money? Not all drug users always have the money to make a purchase.


Chuck

I believe that legalization would reduce the amount of property crimes related to acquiring drug money since the main reason why drugs are expensive is the fact that they're illegal. Before the 2nd WW you could buy heroin from the pharmacy to use as a cough suppressant. And Cannabis for instance is literally a weed, it'll grow with fairly minimal effort if you don't have to worry about legal consequences of growing it.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[Marinus 0]

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I wouldn't say drugs have no value, I say it has a negative value. Users affect everyone else around them, bring undesirables into neighborhoods. they begin to not care and everyone else has to experience thier blight. It's just not the same as skydiving where a passion took you. this is about something of a decay that takes you.

Caffeine is a drug.

So whenever I drink my morning coffee, undesirables flock to my neighbourhood, I stop to care, and my inescapable blight fucks up everything around me?

AFAICS it's just you having trouble to understand the concept of drugs.

[Marinus 0]

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And Cannabis for instance is literally a weed

If you ignore the mind-altering part and the fact that it's a very resilient plant, hemp is anything but a weed. It's a very useful crop and it's a bloody shame it's outlawed because some idiots think it causes reefer madness in anyone that comes close to it.

[masterrig 1]

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If, they break the law while under the influence should they just have to go to re-hab so they won't be treated as criminals?

No, if they break the law under influence, drive a car for instance, they should be punished for that behavior. Not the substance usage but whatever criminal behavior they engaged in. However they should obviously get help for their substance abuse during their incarceration, if the crime leads to that, but the substance abuse alone shouldn't result in jail time.

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Would legalization of dope reduce the number of break-ins, car burglaries and armed robberies so someone can get drug money? Not all drug users always have the money to make a purchase.


Chuck

I believe that legalization would reduce the amount of property crimes related to acquiring drug money since the main reason why drugs are expensive is the fact that they're illegal. Before the 2nd WW you could buy heroin from the pharmacy to use as a cough suppressant. And Cannabis for instance is literally a weed, it'll grow with fairly minimal effort if you don't have to worry about legal consequences of growing it.

Cocaine was at one time an ingredient in 'Coca' Cola. I've personally known young people who would not work but chose to commit car burglaries to get dope money. One kid did it to get spray paint! I had a neighbor kid like that. He's in the federal pen now on a stolen gun charge. Doesn't seem to me that 'cheap drugs' would make a difference to those more willing to steal than hold-down a job. Also, Everyone says tax drugs so, adding taxes onto the 'base' price of dope is going to keep the price up. Like cigarettes or beer. With the demand what it is, I really don't see the price dropping. Don't you think that legal sellers would want to get the same money the cartels get?


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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And Cannabis for instance is literally a weed

If you ignore the mind-altering part and the fact that it's a very resilient plant, hemp is anything but a weed. It's a very useful crop and it's a bloody shame it's outlawed because some idiots think it causes reefer madness in anyone that comes close to it.

Common hemp is substantially different in regards to THC level.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[normiss 622]

The extreme examples often cited for drug fear are exactly that.
Extreme examples.

Pot is not and never has been a gateway drug.

Some people are simply idiots about behavior and drugs.
No matter the law, no matter the choice, there are those that will fuck up. Repeatedly.

[Marinus 0]

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Common hemp is substantially different in regards to THC level.

And there you are, because we really need those posts that absolutely don't add anything at all. Personally I don't give a fuck about how high one can get on common hemp, but I do give a fuck about the fact that hemp is a very useful crop that could make this world a somewhat better place.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I wonder if those who support legalization of drugs have thought through what the drug dealers would do to earn a living when their cash cow was gone. Do you think they will just retreat from the world and grow old?

No, but it might cause a certain amount of natural attrition over time, as their stock-in-trade - activity that has been deemed unlawful - shrinks. Just like animals out in the wild competing over food sources, where species population often varies directly with food supplies.

As an historical example, although organized crime has always existed throughout human history, and existed in the US well prior to Prohibition, the Sicilian-based Mafia only came into its own in the US once Prohibition was passed. That gave them a foothold to grow their organized crime network to a sustainable level (i.e., dealing in other vices and contraband) that was able to survive Prohibition's eventual repeal. And the Mafia in the US became the template for large-scale, successful organized crime in the 20th Century US. So had Prohibition never been enacted, the history of modern organized crime in the US might very well be far different today than it actually is.

Actually, I think many simply morphed into Wall Street Bankers and Hedge Fund Managers. Many just picked up on different criminal activity like kidnapping for prostitution and baby farms. I seriously doubt a drug dealer at any level would decide to get a job at a shoe store if their livelyhood was taken away.

[Arvoitus 1]

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Cocaine was at one time an ingredient in 'Coca' Cola. I've personally known young people who would not work but chose to commit car burglaries to get dope money. One kid did it to get spray paint! I had a neighbor kid like that. He's in the federal pen now on a stolen gun charge. Doesn't seem to me that 'cheap drugs' would make a difference to those more willing to steal than hold-down a job.

To me it sounds that it is a problem with these individuals and their attitudes towards the society around them and rather then behaving the way they're expect they'll try to find the easy way out. It is far easier to steal the money for whatever you need it then to work for it. These kinds of people will keep doing these things regardless if various drugs area illegal or not.

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Also, Everyone says tax drugs so, adding taxes onto the 'base' price of dope is going to keep the price up. Like cigarettes or beer. With the demand what it is, I really don't see the price dropping. Don't you think that legal sellers would want to get the same money the cartels get?


Chuck

During prohibition alcohol was more expensive then before and after. If you could get a commercial license to grow and sell Cannabis I don't believe for a second that the prices would remain at todays cartel price levels. Free market competition would keep the prices at a reasonable level.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[masterrig 1]

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And Cannabis for instance is literally a weed

If you ignore the mind-altering part and the fact that it's a very resilient plant, hemp is anything but a weed. It's a very useful crop and it's a bloody shame it's outlawed because some idiots think it causes reefer madness in anyone that comes close to it.

Common hemp is substantially different in regards to THC level.

That's one reason it is a Class-I drug.


Chuck

[nanook 1]

Drugs have a concept? This isn't an idea. Drug use have a result, definitely more dangerous than your caffeine, but there are issues created and they affect others in various ways. I would have no problem if it was a "victimless" vice, but it's not. If you do not see this, or do not stay around to witness the effects then I can't help you understand my position. And I tell you that my position does not come from me using the stuff, enjoy myself, and not pay attention to my surrounds being ignorant of how the product gets to my hands in the first place.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

How about this... The government issues 'Personal Grow Permits'. One simply pays a set fee and re-news the permit annually for a fee. Like a hunting license. The weed grown by the permit holder can only be what they can use personally. No sales to anyone. This would be for personal use on the grower's property only. This would cut-out the middle-man and drastically reduce prices. Also, the laws would apply for driving under the influence and so-on. I understand that people want their 'cheap' vices and the government gets their share. Everyone is happy!


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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Common hemp is substantially different in regards to THC level.

And there you are, because we really need those posts that absolutely don't add anything at all.

Like you bringing common hemp into a discussion regarding marijuana, you mean?

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Personally I don't give a fuck about how high one can get on common hemp, but I do give a fuck about the fact that hemp is a very useful crop that could make this world a somewhat better place.

And *still* has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Marinus 0]

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Like you bringing common hemp into a discussion regarding marijuana, you mean?

Why not, they're the same thing.

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And *still* has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

the subject that was meant to be under discussion is US foreign politics. The discussion derailed a long time ago into a discussion about legalizing weed.

Welcome to SC...

[normiss 622]

Which is wrong.
More so now when you CAN a prescription for it!

Still waiting to see the prescription for heroin.

[masterrig 1]

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Which is wrong.
More so now when you CAN a prescription for it!

Still waiting to see the prescription for heroin.

Sure. See some back-alley doctor, get a prescription!

So are a lot of other folks.


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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Like you bringing common hemp into a discussion regarding marijuana, you mean?

Why not, they're the same thing.

From wiki:

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Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa var. sativa is the variety grown for industrial use, while C. sativa subsp. indica generally has poor fiber quality and is primarily used for recreational and medicinal purposes. The major difference between the two types of plants is the appearance and the amount of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) secreted in a resinous mixture by epidermal hairs called glandular trichomes, although they can also be distinguished genetically.

So, nope...not the same thing. But feel free to try and get stoned off of industrial hemp if you like.

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And *still* has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

the subject that was meant to be under discussion is US foreign politics. The discussion derailed a long time ago into a discussion about legalizing weed.

Which isn't the industrial hemp that you're trying to describe it as, although I'll admit the US is as stupid in not allowing the industrial hemp to be used as they are in not legalizing weed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[popsjumper 2]

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I think a response could fall under defending out country

....whatever. Any excuse to "justify" stupid shit. Typical 'Merican goobermint.

I can't believe all the war mongers in SC.
Well, maybe I can.

If it is a direct response, to a direct attack. Nothing more, for nothing less.

War monger? I like you abore war, cause I like you have fought it.

But I, like you, understand there is a time when it is inevitable, and I am not afraid to acknowledge that.

Matt

Matt, I was not hammering you personally, I understand where you are coming from. The war monger comment was intended for general audiences. So many people so quick to confrontation at the least provocation, real or imagined.

"If it is a direct response, to a direct attack. Nothing more, for nothing less."
That, I totally agree with.

Just to be clear, as the OP was put forth, I do not agree with that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Name one redeeming quality of skydiving. It doesn't really have any. Should we ban it, too?

Well, Dan...for me it's a whole lot cheaper than paying a psycho-babbler for therapy.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Drug deal related violence is a symptom of the War on Drugs, not a cause.

Ummmm...I think you got that one just backwards. we had drug deal related violence before there was any War on Drugs.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 622]

I am referring specifically to the Classification of drugs.
It has some weight on how they are classified.
A Class I drug has no prescriptions available - yet pot does.
A Class II drug is available via prescription - I highly doubt you can get a prescription for heroin.

[masterrig 1]

I understand, now.


Chuck

[normiss 622]

Then add idiots like DEA Administrator Leonhart


How the hell this lady landed that sort of job just leaves me floored.

[masterrig 1]

My wife worked (on loan) with DEA and she told me how they operate. The investigators had to get permission to do anything. Their hands were tied most of the time and made doing their jobs frustrating at the very least. Just typical Washington B.S.
You're right! How Leonhart got her got her job was probably a lot like promotions given out to the biggest screw-ups. Those who were more than capable were over-looked. That's why so many went to the Marshall's office, Sky Marshalls or Secret Service.


Chuck