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ryoder

Baptist University's Anti-Gay Pledge Causes Faculty To Quit In Droves

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Factoid (not advocacy): FWIW, it's very common for church-run (Protestant or Catholic) and/or church-affiliated educational institutions to require faculty and faculty job applicants (and sometimes other staff) to sign some sort of "affirmation of Christian faith / institutional values, etc." statement as a condition of employment.

(Long story short: Yes, it's legal, under a specific exception, for religious institutions, in the federal anti-discrimination laws; and Yes, they do fulfill enough "bullet points" on the statutory "list" to qualify as exempt religious institutions.)

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Probably would have been a good idea to emphasize that requirement before they hired all those people.;)
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Probably would have been a good idea to emphasize that requirement before they hired all those people.;)



Well, I don't know if they already had a more general, less controversial, "affirmation of principles" requirement in place, and then this (controversial) one superseded the old one, or if this is the first time this particular college instituted such a practice.

Playing devil's :) advocate, there are some things that commonly "are part of the deal" with parochial schools, both as a student and as faculty. The commonality of "statement of faith" requirements for parochial school faculty is hardly anything new; and most college faculty have Doctorates or at least Master's, so should be held to a certain level of sophistication about realizing what they're getting into when they sign on as faculty at a religion-affiliated school.

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The "Personal Lifestyle Statement" requires employees to reject homosexuality, premarital sex, adultery, drug use and public drinking near campus. It also mandates that staff be active in a local church.

Whole bunch of problems in this one for people. Though it looks like rock n roll is still permitted.

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The "Personal Lifestyle Statement" requires employees to reject homosexuality, premarital sex, adultery, drug use and public drinking near campus. It also mandates that staff be active in a local church.

Whole bunch of problems in this one for people. Though it looks like rock n roll is still permitted.



Masturbation seems to be OK, too!:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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have Doctorates or at least Master's, so should be held to a certain level of sophistication



I don't see a lot of correlation between advanced degrees and sophistication

I do see it up to a point (bachelors), but it seems to be a maximum point beyond which the sophistication level seems to drop rather than diminishing returns - the only thing I think increases constantly is self appreciation and pretension

YMMV

(I have a masters too, so I'm kinda digging my own grave)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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I applaud both sides for holding to their convictions.



Damn straight! It's FAR more important for people to hold on to extremist beliefs than to ever reach a middle ground.

:S
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I applaud both sides for holding to their convictions.



Damn straight! It's FAR more important for people to hold on to extremist beliefs than to ever reach a middle ground.

:S



Compromise is the hallmark of mediocrity.

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I applaud both sides for holding to their convictions.


Damn straight! It's FAR more important for people to hold on to extremist beliefs than to ever reach a middle ground.
:S


Compromise is the hallmark of mediocrity.



So is leading your life according to other people's aphorisms.

Compromise is what makes things possible. Simply being bullheaded and not seeking the cooperation of others is silly. It rarely accomplishes anything.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I applaud both sides for holding to their convictions.



Damn straight! It's FAR more important for people to hold on to extremist beliefs than to ever reach a middle ground.

:S



and you are the official approved poobah of deciding what is extreme? And middle ground is greatly overrated? I missed that declaration-must have been covered on MSNBC only. A decidedly conservative organization expects the people who represent it to subscribe the traditionally established standards. Certain employees feel this is against their beliefs so they stop representing the organization and taking it's money. All good.

In my experience-when the term 'middle ground' is used-normally the speaker means 'you should think like I do'
You are only as strong as the prey you devour

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In my experience-when the term 'middle ground' is used-normally the speaker means 'you should think like I do'



I can't speak for YOUR experience, but in mine it means both parties are allowed to believe what they want, but they understand not everyone will have that same opinion. That they will do what is best for all; not simply their side.

It means people negotiate in good faith to strike a bargain both sides can live with rather than both sides walking away from.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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And both parties are allowed to believe what they want. Happy? Like I said. I applaud both sides for backing up their standards with action.



the result of that could be a 90% loss of faculty which could, depending on timing, result in the loss of accreditation. In short, the university is committing suicide for its standards. Something I believe is generally against Christian tenants.

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And both parties are allowed to believe what they want. Happy? Like I said. I applaud both sides for backing up their standards with action.



the result of that could be a 90% loss of faculty which could, depending on timing, result in the loss of accreditation. In short, the university is committing suicide for its standards. Something I believe is generally against Christian tenants.



Equating allowing your business to fail because you refuse to comprise your convictions to committing personal suicide is a bit of a stretch. :S
lisa
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Equating allowing your business to fail because you refuse to comprise your convictions to committing personal suicide is a bit of a stretch. :S



they were ok with hiring these people, and apparently with their performance. There's probably a saner method to implement this loyalty oath that doesn't require instant completion. Given a 5 year grace period, the attrition rate would be high, but institutional knowledge would be maintained. Instead they have to recreate from scratch. And if they do lose their accreditation, they will see a tremendous drop in applicants, and have screwed their current students. (Kallend - is there any grace period or grandfathering for existing students in this sort of situation, or are they now getting an even more worthless degree?)

Funny side note - I'm now seeing banner ads for Shorter on the top of DZ.

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Equating allowing your business to fail because you refuse to comprise your convictions to committing personal suicide is a bit of a stretch. :S



they were ok with hiring these people, and apparently with their performance. There's probably a saner method to implement this loyalty oath that doesn't require instant completion. Given a 5 year grace period, the attrition rate would be high, but institutional knowledge would be maintained. Instead they have to recreate from scratch. And if they do lose their accreditation, they will see a tremendous drop in applicants, and have screwed their current students. (Kallend - is there any grace period or grandfathering for existing students in this sort of situation, or are they now getting an even more worthless degree?)

Funny side note - I'm now seeing banner ads for Shorter on the top of DZ.



I agree that this may not be the most business-savvy approach. There does seem to be a huge job market, now, for conservative Christians who want to teach, no matter the subject matter. I would venture to say that there are a huge number of out-of-work Christians who will jump at the chance to be gainfully employed in a work environment that is not hostile to their beliefs.
lisa
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I'm also guessing the loyalty oath isn't exactly Constitutional either even if this part of the story is accurate.

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The new policy of course discriminates against employees or applicants who are not socially conservative Christians. But as a religious educational institution, Shorter is allowed to discriminate in favor of a particular religion with any employee, even employees not connected with the school's religious activities, according to an exception granted by Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.



My gut tells me they probably screwed up on their exact wording to make it Constitutional.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I applaud both sides for holding to their convictions.



Damn straight! It's FAR more important for people to hold on to extremist beliefs than to ever reach a middle ground.

:S



Sounds as though you would have people formed by cookie cutters and standardized templates.

:S:S
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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the result of that could be a 90% loss of faculty which could, depending on timing, result in the loss of accreditation. In short, the university is committing suicide for its standards. Something I believe is generally against Christian tenants.



Does the school run apartment complexes too? Do the tenants have to sign also?

I think the word you really wanted to use is tenets.
"For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people."

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