normiss 622
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GeorgiaDon 340
Your information is incorrect. He surrendered a passport that was useless to him, as it expired in May 2012, which deceptively made it appear that he had complied with the bail conditions. He concealed from the court, and kept, a passport that is valid until 2014.Quote...coupled with surrendering his only valid passport
The courts have to balance all the facts in determining flight risk. It is true he voluntarily surrendered to the court, though it must be considered that that was done with the expectation that he would be granted bail. On the other hand, he was deceptive in that he concealed his valid passport, and only turned over a useless passport. He also misrepresented to the court his access to money that had been donated for his defense, but was in an account he could access for any purpose. Any unbiased observer would conclude something is wrong with that situation, and that there was indeed a risk (which is not the same as a certainty) of him taking off.
Funny how an empty baggie with traces of a "green leafy substance" somehow makes TM a raging lunatic drug dealer with a propensity to attack random innocent neighborhood watch volunteers, but Zimmerman lying to the court, hiding money and a valid passport is no big deal. Bias indeed!
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
mnealtx 0
QuoteFunny how an empty baggie with traces of a "green leafy substance" somehow makes TM a raging lunatic drug dealer with a propensity to attack random innocent neighborhood watch volunteers
No, that would be the facebook messages talking about dealing/using drugs and the youtube subscriptions to drug-related and MMA channels, as well as the message from his cousin talking about Martin attacking a bus driver. Then, there's the stolen jewelry...but I'm sure he was just holding it for Sumdood, right?
Quote, but Zimmerman lying to the court, hiding money and a valid passport is no big deal. Bias indeed!
Don
Funny how you don't mention Zimmerman initiating contact with Sanford PD to turn himself in prior to the arrest warrant in the first place. If he was going to run, it would have been then while he had the passport and money, don't you think?
But that doesn't fit the 'narrative', now does it?
Funny how it's not mentioned that Zimmerman is faithfully maintaining contact with the supervising officers, maintaining curfew, maintaining GPS monitoring, etc.
But that doesn't fit the 'narrative', now does it?
Funny how it's not mentioned that the money was transferred to the control of the legal team and he hasn't had access to it since about FIVE DAYS after the initial bail hearing.
But that doesn't fit the 'narrative', now does it?
Bias indeed.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
normiss 622
He turned in the second and useless passport to his attorney. Who sat on it.
I don't understand how that becomes GZ's responsibility - that IS part of the reason for hiring an attorney as we CLEARLY do not understand our legal system and court decorum.
In Florida, the legal system as well as schools do not release any information on minors. The whole "empty bag with trace amounts" is simply the media. Again. Still.
You would have a hard time suspending someone for possession when they have an "empty" bag.
Zimmerman WILL get another bond hearing. It's pretty much up in the air if he'll get a bond...but he clearly has the resources. Donations are averaging $1000 per day.
You have to wonder why so many people are supporting him.
I don't understand how that becomes GZ's responsibility - that IS part of the reason for hiring an attorney as we CLEARLY do not understand our legal system and court decorum.
In Florida, the legal system as well as schools do not release any information on minors. The whole "empty bag with trace amounts" is simply the media. Again. Still.
You would have a hard time suspending someone for possession when they have an "empty" bag.
Zimmerman WILL get another bond hearing. It's pretty much up in the air if he'll get a bond...but he clearly has the resources. Donations are averaging $1000 per day.
You have to wonder why so many people are supporting him.
GeorgiaDon 340
Have a look at the motion to revoke bond that the prosecution filed. Not turning over the second (and only valid) passport was not an oversight, as in recorded phone conversations from the Seminole County jail on April 17 Zimmerman is heard telling his wife where to find the passport, and she tells him she has already put it in a safe deposit box. The first bond hearing wasn't until 3 days later, so at that hearing when Zimmerman told the court the passport he was surrendering (the one that expired in May 2012) was his only passport, he was intentionally lying.
Prior to the first bond hearing, Zimmerman was recorded discussing with his wife how to arrange her access to the paypal account that had been set up so people could donate to his defense. By the time of the first bond hearing she had already transferred over $135,000 into her credit union account. This was done at Zimmerman's direction, as is clear from the recorded phone conversations. At the bond hearing Zimmerman's wife testified that the family was indigent, which was a lie and Zimmerman was fully aware of, and had orchestrated, that lie. It makes no difference that control of the account was given over to the defense lawyers FIVE DAYS after the bond hearing, as by that time the Zimmerman family had removed over $135,000 from the account. Subsequently that money was transferred to other accounts also controlled by the Zimmerman family, in an effort to conceal it from the court.
So, the bail that was granted at the first hearing was predicated on lies that Zimmerman himself had arranged:
1. The passport that was surrendered was not his only passport, and he deliberately kept concealed from the court a passport that was valid until 2014.
2. The amount of the bail was based on testimony that the family was indigent, when in fact Zimmerman had arranged for his wife to transfer over $135,000 from the paypal account to accounts controlled by Zimmerman and his wife.
It is well known that the courts do not look favorably on people who lie and deliberately misinform or mislead the court to get favorable treatment. It's a no-brainer that his bail would be revoked, as the initial bail was based entirely on lies that Zimmerman orchestrated.
But of course, that doesn't fit YOUR narrative, does it.
Cheers,
Don
Prior to the first bond hearing, Zimmerman was recorded discussing with his wife how to arrange her access to the paypal account that had been set up so people could donate to his defense. By the time of the first bond hearing she had already transferred over $135,000 into her credit union account. This was done at Zimmerman's direction, as is clear from the recorded phone conversations. At the bond hearing Zimmerman's wife testified that the family was indigent, which was a lie and Zimmerman was fully aware of, and had orchestrated, that lie. It makes no difference that control of the account was given over to the defense lawyers FIVE DAYS after the bond hearing, as by that time the Zimmerman family had removed over $135,000 from the account. Subsequently that money was transferred to other accounts also controlled by the Zimmerman family, in an effort to conceal it from the court.
So, the bail that was granted at the first hearing was predicated on lies that Zimmerman himself had arranged:
1. The passport that was surrendered was not his only passport, and he deliberately kept concealed from the court a passport that was valid until 2014.
2. The amount of the bail was based on testimony that the family was indigent, when in fact Zimmerman had arranged for his wife to transfer over $135,000 from the paypal account to accounts controlled by Zimmerman and his wife.
It is well known that the courts do not look favorably on people who lie and deliberately misinform or mislead the court to get favorable treatment. It's a no-brainer that his bail would be revoked, as the initial bail was based entirely on lies that Zimmerman orchestrated.
But of course, that doesn't fit YOUR narrative, does it.
Cheers,
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
GeorgiaDon 340
I haven't found any reference to that online, could you point me to one? It's clear from the transcript of the phone conversation between Zimmerman and his wife that they discussed the second passport three days before the bond hearing, yet at the hearing Zimmerman testified that the surrendered passport was his only one. Even if he had given it to his attorney by that time, he lied to the court.QuoteHe turned in the second and useless passport to his attorney. Who sat on it.
I don't understand how that becomes GZ's responsibility - that IS part of the reason for hiring an attorney as we CLEARLY do not understand our legal system and court decorum.
Agree about the media. I don't know about the "hard time suspending"; when I was a teenager you could be arrested for possession if you had a single seed in your pocket, and it seems to me the local schools suspend kids for a lot less that suspicion of drug possession. Schools aren't held to the same standard of proof as the legal system is.QuoteIn Florida, the legal system as well as schools do not release any information on minors. The whole "empty bag with trace amounts" is simply the media. Again. Still.
You would have a hard time suspending someone for possession when they have an "empty" bag.
Yep, he's legally entitled to that. Now that he's shown himself to be willing to deceive the court, he may have a harder time of it, we'll see.QuoteZimmerman WILL get another bond hearing.
I can understand how people could be on either side of the fence about the initial charges. I really don't understand the knee-jerk defense of everything he does, though. Funny how it seems some of the same people who think Clinton should have been removed from the Presidency for lying about whether or not he had sex with Lewinski are willing to completely overlook multiple instances of lying to the court by Zimmerman.QuoteYou have to wonder why so many people are supporting him.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
I will wait to see the defense explanation for the passports. That was the reverse of the initial description (turned in the new one, not the old one).
The bank account is a different matter. I think they'll show that they put that in order. But the passport claim is more damning, though effectively you would have to get on a boat to avoid the immediate flagging of the ID when trying to use it to travel in a TSA controlled location.
The bank account is a different matter. I think they'll show that they put that in order. But the passport claim is more damning, though effectively you would have to get on a boat to avoid the immediate flagging of the ID when trying to use it to travel in a TSA controlled location.
normiss 622
In local reports, the passport isn't even being discussed.
It's all about the money.
How dare someone come up with funding to defend themselves properly.
The prosecution really hates that.
It's all about the money.
How dare someone come up with funding to defend themselves properly.
The prosecution really hates that.
QuoteIn local reports, the passport isn't even being discussed.
It's all about the money.
How dare someone come up with funding to defend themselves properly.
The prosecution really hates that.
Sounds like they would like the new bail to be set at 10X the bank account value, so he'll need to forfeit it all to the bail bondsman.
normiss 622
His attorney took this case pro bono, so he should be ok long term.
This story will sell. ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
billvon 2,433
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Funny how it's not mentioned that the money was transferred to the control of the >legal team and he hasn't had access to it since about FIVE DAYS after the initial bail
>hearing.
His legal team recently apologized for his mistake in deceiving the court, and said he would work to get his credibility back.
Oops - that doesn't fit your agenda, so it must be ignored. Those evil judges! How dare they doubt the word of such an upstanding citizen!
>hearing.
His legal team recently apologized for his mistake in deceiving the court, and said he would work to get his credibility back.
Oops - that doesn't fit your agenda, so it must be ignored. Those evil judges! How dare they doubt the word of such an upstanding citizen!
mnealtx 0
Quote>Funny how it's not mentioned that the money was transferred to the control of the >legal team and he hasn't had access to it since about FIVE DAYS after the initial bail
>hearing.
His legal team recently apologized for his mistake in deceiving the court, and said he would work to get his credibility back.
Oops - that doesn't fit your agenda, so it must be ignored. Those evil judges! How dare they doubt the word of such an upstanding citizen!
Must've missed where I claimed that he didn't deceive the court - can you point it out for me once you're through making up new scenarios, Bill?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
tkhayes 140
QuoteMust've missed where I claimed that he didn't deceive the court ....
yet you object to the bond being revoked. even after Mark posted the FL statutes....
wow,
DanG 1
This thread is like SC in a bottle: the usual suspects pick their side according to their own bias, refuse to budge regardless of anything under the sun, and then accuse the other side of being biased. Throw in some thinly veiled insults, and some not so veiled, and you have the whole forum in a nutshell.
- Dan G
- Dan G
QuoteThis thread is like SC in a bottle: the usual suspects pick their side according to their own bias, refuse to budge regardless of anything under the sun, and then accuse the other side of being biased. Throw in some thinly veiled insults, and some not so veiled, and you have the whole forum in a nutshell.
.....and then someone else jumps in and criticizes everyone else for being biased. Perfect, thanks for completing the pathology.
DanG 1
Quote.....and then someone else jumps in and criticizes everyone else for being biased. Perfect, thanks for completing the pathology.
And then someone from the "other side" will feel obligated to get a dig in, even though the criticizer was completely neutral in his criticism.
- Dan G
normiss 622
It's interesting right now how the press is playing the "Mr. Zimmerman's attorney is delaying filing a request for a new bond hearing for now".....
ummm...the judge is out of town on vacation. 
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteMust've missed where I claimed that he didn't deceive the court ....
yet you object to the bond being revoked. even after Mark posted the FL statutes....
wow,
Someone who has voluntarily turned themselves over to police not once, but TWICE has pretty conclusively proven they aren't a flight risk. I know you're unable to grasp the concept, but it may be instructive for other posters.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
normiss 622
and GPS.....
This has become a political and media case.
This has become a political and media case.
tkhayes 140
Quoteconclusively proven they aren't a flight risk.
circular - here we go again
The judge and courts disagree with you and they appear to be following the Florida Statutes, given the number of factors allowed under the statute.
lying and deceiving the court tells me that you are a douchebag - hence my original post.
The courts appear to agree with that, or more accurately, I AGREE with the courts, given that neither you nor I are involved in the decision.
rushmc 18
QuoteThis thread is like SC in a bottle: the usual suspects pick their side according to their own bias, refuse to budge regardless of anything under the sun, and then accuse the other side of being biased. Throw in some thinly veiled insults, and some not so veiled, and you have the whole forum in a nutshell.
Irony meter explodes
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
mnealtx 0
Quoteand GPS.....
This has become a political and media case.
It always was. I'm in agreement with the other poster that thought it was an attempt to force Zimmerman into a plea bargain.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteconclusively proven they aren't a flight risk.
circular - here we go again
The judge and courts disagree with you and they appear to be following the Florida Statutes, given the number of factors allowed under the statute.
Really?
Let's run that down, shall we?
(a) The nature and circumstances of the offense charged.
(b) The weight of the evidence against the defendant.
State ain't looking too hot on this one. Falls in favor of Zimmerman.
(c) The defendant’s family ties, length of residence in the community, employment history, financial resources, and mental condition.
Falls in favor of Zimmerman.
(d) The defendant’s past and present conduct, including any record of convictions, previous flight to avoid prosecution, or failure to appear at court proceedings.
Falls in favor of Zimmerman.
(e) The nature and probability of danger which the defendant’s release poses to the community.
Falls in favor of Zimmerman.
(f) The source of funds and whether it may be linked to or derived from the crime alleged to have been committed or from any other criminal or illicit activities.
Falls in favor of Zimmerman
(g) Whether the defendant is already on release pending resolution of another criminal proceeding or on probation, parole, or other release pending completion of a sentence.
Falls in favor of Zimmerman.
(h) The street value of any drug or controlled substance connected to or involved in the criminal charge.
Not applicable
(i) The nature and probability of intimidation and danger to victims.
Not applicable
(j) Whether there is probable cause to believe that the defendant committed a new crime while on pretrial release.
Not applicable
(k) Any other facts that the court considers relevant.
This is about the only one that doesn't go in Zimmerman's favor.
(l) Whether the crime charged is a violation of chapter 874 (Criminal Gang).
Not applicable
So, looks like it's 6 in Zimmerman's favor, 3 non-applicable and one that goes for the court.
What's that about the 'number of factors', again?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
F.S. 903.046
(a) The nature and circumstances of the offense charged.
(b) The weight of the evidence against the defendant.
(c) The defendant’s family ties, length of residence in the community, employment history, financial resources, and mental condition.
(d) The defendant’s past and present conduct, including any record of convictions, previous flight to avoid prosecution, or failure to appear at court proceedings.
(e) The nature and probability of danger which the defendant’s release poses to the community.
(f) The source of funds and whether it may be linked to or derived from the crime alleged to have been committed or from any other criminal or illicit activities.
(g) Whether the defendant is already on release pending resolution of another criminal proceeding or on probation, parole, or other release pending completion of a sentence.
(h) The street value of any drug or controlled substance connected to or involved in the criminal charge.
(i) The nature and probability of intimidation and danger to victims.
(j) Whether there is probable cause to believe that the defendant committed a new crime while on pretrial release.
(k) Any other facts that the court considers relevant.
(l) Whether the crime charged is a violation of chapter 874 (Criminal Gang).
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