CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS

[Marinus 0]

Cannibalism isn't universally wrong. I can think of situations were eating the dead wouldn't be unethical, (ever seen the flick "Alive"?) also in some cultures people were eaten with the best of intentions. When granny died you ate her so she would live on inside you. And there's of course organ transplantation. Using the meat of one person to sustain another person. Organ transplantation isn't cannibalism, it's actually far more extreme.

Rape is generally but not universally considered as "wrong" but the definition as to what rape is varies wildly. Example: not that long ago raping your own wife wasn't considered rape, and a raped prostitute was a oxymoron.

[BoogeyMan 0]

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No, no and no.......Again..... you are wrong... I'm did not assign anything, anywhere.

I didn't say you assigned any attributes, I said you assumed its existence. Read what I wrote if you wish to debate me, otherwise you'll just keep being wrong.

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Re-read what I wrote if you wish to debate me.

What you wrote;

"Any further debate boils down to a discussion of what powers the debaters accede to as belonging to a deity or their version of a deity. To simply throw out that there is "nothing" is denied by the physical fact that matter does exist."

[/repl

Wow.... You are really out there. I presupposed nothing. I say that physics denies that nothing can generate something.
This is simply a personal attack, as you have nothing to really say. You are spinning, and inventing outlandish interpretations of what I, and others have written, simply to be argumentative towards some personal end.
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[mikempb 0]

Those are perfect examples of relativism. If you eat granny so she is inside of you may be relatively right but universally wrong. Rape may not have been considered rape but rape it was. The cannibalism issue is more difficult to classify if the person has died naturally and you need to survive that's different than cannibalism out of sacrifice of a victim to eat for ceremony or enjoyment

[mikempb 0]

Here's the best way to define moral absolutism. It is judged not by your ACTIONS but your REACTIONS. Example you may think it's ok to kill and tourture, but what happens if your the one about to be tourtured????? You would know instantly it is universally wrong. And that's the best way I can put it.

[Marinus 0]

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What would be the impact to our understanding of God to find out that whales and/or dolphins are, in fact, capable of spiritual lives, just ones that are so different that we have no concept whatsoever of them?

Don't be silly, there's no way that this could be a manifestation of non-human spirituality:

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One of those small happenings where the elephant and the human worlds meet ….. Villagers from Wami told me about an elephant that had died nearby from natural causes (old age or disease). A group of about 6-8 elephants remained, standing around and apparently watching over the dead body which they covered with earth and branches. They stayed for around 4 days before moving on and leaving just one elephant who stayed for another 3 or 4 days before she left too.

An article the 8 Oct 2006 New York Times Magazine discusses elephant mourning in greater detail, “When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting.”

http://www.wild.org/blog/elephant-death-rites/

[mikempb 0]

I have been making claims based on reasoning to provide a possible answer but the claim that whales may have soles is pure speculation without any evidence I'm afraid you would have to be the one to show some proof fir that and I know you meant it hypothetically but to entertain for that for that right now isn't realistic

[beowulf 1]

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Here's the best way to define moral absolutism. It is judged not by your ACTIONS but your REACTIONS. Example you may think it's ok to kill and tourture, but what happens if your the one about to be tourtured????? You would know instantly it is universally wrong. And that's the best way I can put it.

Not everyone reacts the same way. What I would consider torture some consider to be fun an example is sadomasochism.

You're reasoning is flawed.

[mikempb 0]

I'm not talking about a kinky type of s&m I'm talking about horrific life ending pain so I think it's your interpretation that is flawed

[beowulf 1]

How about choking someone till they pass out? I would consider that horrific. Some people think it's fun.

[beowulf 1]

I think you are underestimating the amount of pain some people inflict upon themselves for entertainment purposes. They call it fun I call it torture.

[Marinus 0]

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It is judged not by your ACTIONS but your REACTIONS.

I've a dilemma for you: On a good day, well actually a bad day, you meet me. You've got an axe with you, and I'm stuck with my leg under a steel beam. Of course the building is on fire, why else would you be there You've got about 60-90 seconds to save my ass.

a) What would your ACTION be?
b) what would my REACTION to that ACTION be?

I can assure you that the answer to b) wouldn't be "Sure, good sir, chop away, who needs anaesthesia anyway?"

[Coreece 190]

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Without the Bible anything goes, like all the wild eyed musings from smoking dope....

Not so - look at Buddhists.

Religion is *an* answer, it's not the *only* answer.

Buddhists? We're talking about christian apologetics. I think it's ridiculous to explain christianity without the bible...

OK. As far as christian apologetic are concerned, it's ridiculous to claim that without the bible, anything goes. Just look at the Buddhists. Or the early Greek philosophers. The existence and/or nature of 'The Good' was a pretty hot topic 400+ years before Jesus.

Nevermind, forget it...that's not what I meant.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[mikempb 0]

I agree I would sever an extremity to save your life. But that's consistent with my claim because my Reaction ( if it were me) would be to cut mine off too

[rehmwa 2]

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I agree I would sever an extremity to save your life. But that's consistent with my claim because my Reaction ( if it were me) would be to cut mine off too

but then would you both barbeque the leg and eat it?



please stay on topic

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Coreece 190]

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Hey coreece. I agree. I love the bible but if people in here don't believe in it, it's hard to prove your point by quoting it

I'm not here to find nonbelievers. If somebody doesn't believe, there is nothing I can say short of scripture that will make them believe. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not by what I have to say about it.

No matter what we say, at one point thay are going to have to accept spiritual truth in scripture that is absolutely ridiculous and contrary to natural man.

I have nothing against apologetics and appreciate your effort, but your one comment seemed to share sentiments with the idea of being ashamed of the Gospel - which I suppose is something normal, since Paul had to make it a point to declare that he wasn't.

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Romans 1:16
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,255]

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Well exuse me

You're excused.

Now would you care to answer any of those questions?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Southern_Man 0]

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I'm not here to find nonbelievers. If somebody doesn't believe, there is nothing I can say short of scripture that will make them believe. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not by what I have to say about it.

This is Dogmatics, not apologetics.

I feel like I am beating my head against the wall.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jakee 1,255]

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This is simply a personal attack

No it's not. This 'You are really out there' could be construed as a personal attack, but nothing I've said has been directed at you personally. Now stop whining.

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You are spinning, and inventing outlandish interpretations of what I, and others have written,

No I'm not. You are assuming the existence of a deity. It's right there in black and white.

If you now want to say that you were not stating or implying that some form of deity or entity must be responsible for the start of the universe, then fine - but the fault is yours for incorrectly stating your position earlier in the thread.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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You would know instantly it is universally wrong.

I would know instantly that I didn't want it to happen to me. And that's about all you can say about it. How you will try and argue that this means god exists I have no idea, but I'm sure it'll be hilarious.

(And by the way, your torture example is not universal. There are masochists out there who would love to be tortured in ways that I would instantly think were wrong if someone tried to do it to me. There are also people who know how horrible it is to be tortured who still support torturing others. How does that work?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Marinus 0]

Fair enough, but I doubt my reaction in such a situation would be to give you permission to chop of my leg. So you would probably do a horrible thing to me against my will. It doesn't really matter that my rational choice is to survive by loosing my leg too.

[BoogeyMan 0]

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This is simply a personal attack

No it's not. This 'You are really out there' could be construed as a personal attack, but nothing I've said has been directed at you personally. Now stop whining.

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You are spinning, and inventing outlandish interpretations of what I, and others have written,

No I'm not. You are assuming the existence of a deity. It's right there in black and white.

If you now want to say that you were not stating or implying that some form of deity or entity must be responsible for the start of the universe, then fine - but the fault is yours for incorrectly stating your position earlier in the thread.

Wowzers... take an aspirin, and lay down. Get some rest.

[jakee 1,255]

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I have been making claims based on reasoning

You think?

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but the claim that whales may have soles is pure speculation

Of course whales don't have soles. They don't even have feet.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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Nevermind, forget it...that's not what I meant.

Oh, ok.

So when you said 'without the bible, anything goes' you actually meant 'without the bible, not everything goes'. Would've been a lot easier if you'd just said that.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Marinus 0]

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but then would you both barbeque the leg and eat it?

The leg would be barbecued, but since it's stuck under a steel beam, it's kind of hard to eat it. Also, it might end up a bit over cooked.

Does that answer your question?

[mikempb 0]

Do me a favor? Don't put words in my mouth I don't put in there myself .. Fair enough? I am debating 10 other people at a time in here ( and loving it ) I've never been ashamed nor will I ever be of my belief and love for God.
When people don't believe sometimes they have an emotional block sometimes an intellectual one apologetics can Help someone see a side of faith they normally wouldn't. I agree you need faith and faith alone to truly believe this is a stepping stone