dreamdancer 0 #51 November 30, 2011 the minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value - which has been allowed to depreciate to a ridiculous level...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #52 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuotethe numbers just need to be updated... And what according to you should be the number? take EVERYTHING away from EVERYONE divide by 2 and give one portion to whatever party is in power take the rest and divide by the remaining population - hand it out tax the second group 50% and give that also to the party in power (pretty much DD's wet dream - and pretty much any politcian's wet dream) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #53 November 30, 2011 Quote ok - you've done a logical 'flip'. well done - progress... that's right. BILL is the flipper. Not the guy harboring multiple personalities (one marxist, one capitalist, and one guy who can't see the trees for the forest) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #54 November 30, 2011 Quotethe minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value - which has been allowed to depreciate to a ridiculous level... I asked for a number. What should minimum wage be according to you. And I would be more than happy for minimum wage to regain the "real" value, with maybe 1935 as a base year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #55 November 30, 2011 QuoteHow do you note that this is a repost? - by the same poster were I a mod, I'd just lock it and move on.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #56 November 30, 2011 >the minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value OK. So we lower it to $4.00 (1938 adjusted minimum wage.) Employers can hire more, lower skilled employees. Factories stay here since they can get more labor for cheaper instead of having to move to India. Could work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #57 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuote ok - you've done a logical 'flip'. well done - progress... that's right. BILL is the flipper. i was holding to white. billvon was holding to black. we now know that black and white are not the only colours...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #58 November 30, 2011 I think you need a lesson in how industry really works. It is not the job or goal of industry to create jobs. Quite the contrary, eliminating jobs is what industry strive for. And, by doing so, that helps us all. Imagine, if you will, a company that makes XTreme Widgets. These XTreme Widgets help people plan their day, make phone cals, give directions, and make Julienne fries. Unfortunately these XTreme Widgets are very labor intensive to produce and as such cost more than most people can afford. Then one day a bright young engineer devises a method of manufacture that requires only 1/5 the number of workers and 1/10 the man hours. Now the XTreme Widget Company can cut their labor force and raise the wages on the remaining employees all while reducing the cost of the XTreme Widgets so every person making 50% of the national average income or more can afford one. Sales jump through the roof! XTreme Widget must hire back all the employees they laid off plus another 20% increase in their labor force! So now not only have they caused a net increase in jobs, they are paying those people more than before. And that, son, is how the world of industry works. If you look back you will see that scenario repeated over and over again since the dawn of the industrial era.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #59 November 30, 2011 necessity is the mother of invention...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #60 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuote>so ford didn't hugely increase productivity through mass production - he merely >'increased unemployment'. He did both. He made more cars with fewer people. If that trend continues, eventually very few people will make a LOT of money and be super productive - and the rest will go the way of those other factory workers that Ford did not employ. seems to me you're argueing against the nature of the modern economy - growth is gained through increased productivity. you seem to be argueing for the 'luddite' camp. please make yourself clear. was ford right or wrong? in your analogy there will be no-one able to buy the cars as the majority will be unemployed. the system will then crash presumably (you tell me)... You are confusing two ideas, which is why you are arguing out both sides of your mouth. Increase minimum wage = workers make more for work, but fewer people have jobs. Example - From 2000-2010, The state's overall rate climbed from 12.7 percent in 2000 to 15.8 percent in 2010. From 2000-2010 the minimum wage increased from $5.70 to $8.00 per hour. Now, under your logic, the poverty rate should have dropped in a proportion to the wage increase. The minimum wage rose 40% so poverty should have dropped accordingly. BUT NO! The poverty rate INCREASED by 24.4%. So please explain how increasing the minimum wage did not cause a drop in poverty. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #61 December 1, 2011 Quote necessity is the mother of invention... But greed is the father. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #62 December 1, 2011 Quotein your analogy there will be no-one able to buy the cars as the majority will be unemployed. the system will then crash presumably (you tell me)... How do you think the Automotive Industry has done for the past 100yrs? Go champion for the out-of-work elevator attendants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #63 December 1, 2011 Quotethe minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value - which has been allowed to depreciate to a ridiculous level... 1 start a business 2 hire some people 3 get back to us Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #64 December 1, 2011 Quotethe minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value - which has been allowed to depreciate to a ridiculous level... And what do you think the minimum wage should be? Keep in mind that the intent of a minimum wage isn't to raise a family on, it is a bare minimum that an unskilled person doing a menial task should be able to barely scrape by on while supporting just their self.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #65 December 1, 2011 QuoteQuotethe minimum wage needs to regain its historical 'real' value - which has been allowed to depreciate to a ridiculous level... And what do you think the minimum wage should be? Keep in mind that the intent of a minimum wage isn't to raise a family on, it is a bare minimum that an unskilled person doing a menial task should be able to barely scrape by on while supporting just their self. Who says?? It's just a wage level established by politicians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #66 December 1, 2011 >Keep in mind that the intent of a minimum wage isn't to raise a family on, it is a bare >minimum that an unskilled person doing a menial task should be able to barely scrape >by on while supporting just their self. I am thinking that DD has a different definition than that. He'd like to see minimum wage enable people to support their families and buy lots of stuff to stimulate the economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #67 December 1, 2011 Quote>Keep in mind that the intent of a minimum wage isn't to raise a family on, it is a bare >minimum that an unskilled person doing a menial task should be able to barely scrape >by on while supporting just their self. I am thinking that DD has a different definition than that. He'd like to see minimum wage enable people to support their families. agreed... (then the state doesn't have to do it)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #68 December 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote>so ford didn't hugely increase productivity through mass production - he merely >'increased unemployment'. He did both. He made more cars with fewer people. If that trend continues, eventually very few people will make a LOT of money and be super productive - and the rest will go the way of those other factory workers that Ford did not employ. seems to me you're argueing against the nature of the modern economy - growth is gained through increased productivity. you seem to be argueing for the 'luddite' camp. please make yourself clear. was ford right or wrong? in your analogy there will be no-one able to buy the cars as the majority will be unemployed. the system will then crash presumably (you tell me)... You are confusing two ideas, which is why you are arguing out both sides of your mouth. and you're just spewing crap out of your two sides...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #69 December 1, 2011 QuoteQuotein your analogy there will be no-one able to buy the cars as the majority will be unemployed. the system will then crash presumably (you tell me)... How do you think the Automotive Industry has done for the past 100yrs? Go champion for the out-of-work elevator attendants they've already got a champion - billvon...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #70 December 1, 2011 Quotewhich is why you are arguing out both sides of your mouth. the point at which this thread descends into plain insults. not that billvon noticed...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #71 December 1, 2011 QuoteQuotewhich is why you are arguing out both sides of your mouth. the point at which this thread descends into plain insults. not that billvon noticed... I did not insult you, call you any names. I merely said you are arguing points that cannot be reconciled. Of course, the key question I asked was, "So please explain how increasing the minimum wage did not cause a drop in poverty." You are avoiding it. It's why, in my mind, it takes a certain degree of misanthropy to argue in favor of policies that do not prevent the general misery but may actually cause it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #72 December 1, 2011 And your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
