dreamdancer 0 #351 August 13, 2011 or if the police hadn't been so trigger happy thousands wouldn't now be going through the courts... (how about his children - no sympathy for them?)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #352 August 13, 2011 Quoteor if the police hadn't been so trigger happy thousands wouldn't now be going through the courts... (how about his children - no sympathy for them?) http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-05-13-files_troll_2.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #353 August 13, 2011 Quote (how about his children - no sympathy for them?) Duggen should have had sympathy for them, and thought through the consequences of his actions before hand.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #354 August 13, 2011 QuoteTrident don't follow people and stop them on a whim, Hmm. Before De Menezes was shot you would probably have said the same thing about Gold command and Operation Kratos. Not that I think the Duggan situation is the same, it sounds almost certain that he brandished a weapon at the police, but the idea that a person targeted and killed by police must have done something wrong is clearly bullshit. Specialist units within the Met have proven that they are quite capable of shooting people on a whim.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #355 August 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteTrident don't follow people and stop them on a whim, Hmm. Before De Menezes was shot you would probably have said the same thing about Gold command and Operation Kratos. Not that I think the Duggan situation is the same, it sounds almost certain that he brandished a weapon at the police, but the idea that a person targeted and killed by police must have done something wrong is clearly bullshit. Specialist units within the Met have proven that they are quite capable of shooting people on a whim. And each other ... or at least their radios!!!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #356 August 13, 2011 QuoteQuote (how about his children - no sympathy for them?) Duggen should have had sympathy for them, and thought through the consequences of his actions before hand. Exactly.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #357 August 13, 2011 Quoteor if the police hadn't been so trigger happy thousands wouldn't now be going through the courts... (how about his children - no sympathy for them?) Yes, some BUT they were HIS responsibility and he appears to have ignored that. Are you suggesting that cops need to ask if suspect have got kids before they defend themselves? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #358 August 13, 2011 QuoteHmm. Before De Menezes was shot you would probably have said the same thing about Gold command and Operation Kratos. Actually no I wouldn't Kratos was ill conceived and was implemented hastily in an atmosphere of hysteria. I'm interested though, can you give me some examples of where as you claim Met firearms teams have shot people on 'a whim'? I suspect not.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #359 August 13, 2011 QuoteThe former New York and Los Angeles police chief, who will meet David Cameron next month to share his expertise in tackling gang violence and street crime, said crime-fighting solutions that have worked in the US, such as making police forces more ethnically diverse, could get results in the UK. Bratton said British police needed to focus on calming racial tensions by working more with community leaders and civil rights groups, noting that communities could not "arrest their way out" of gang crime. Employing more police officers from ethnic minority communities was another potential long-term solution to stopping future disorder, he said. "Part of the issue going forward is how to make policing more attractive to a changing population," said Bratton. Los Angeles and New York had benefited from police forces that "reflect the ethnic make-up of the cities". http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/13/bill-bratton-advice-uk-policestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #360 August 13, 2011 there was that guy they shot armed with a chair leg. maidstone? then there was that guy they shot in bed. brighton?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #361 August 13, 2011 The bloke with a chair leg had it in a plastic bag and it had been reported as a sawn off shotgun. He didn't put it down when instructed and turned it towards the Police, it was unfortunate but self defence. And the guy in Brighton wasn't shot by the Met.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #362 August 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteHmm. Before De Menezes was shot you would probably have said the same thing about Gold command and Operation Kratos. Actually no I wouldn't Kratos was ill conceived and was implemented hastily in an atmosphere of hysteria. It had been around for nearly four years at that point. That's a reasonable mount of time to start smoothing off the rough edges. QuoteI'm interested though, can you give me some examples of where as you claim Met firearms teams have shot people on 'a whim'? I suspect not. I believe I just did.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #363 August 13, 2011 Neither of those shootings were 'on a whim' and one of them wasn't even by the Met.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #364 August 13, 2011 Anyway, I'm more interested in everyones opinions on this... http://t.co/S3VgMvI David Starkey.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #365 August 13, 2011 QuoteNeither of those shootings were 'on a whim' and one of them wasn't even by the Met. Excuse me? I only referred to one, and it was by the Met.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #366 August 13, 2011 Quite right, my apologies I accidentally ascribed DD's post to you.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #367 August 13, 2011 QuoteAnyway, I'm more interested in everyones opinions on this... http://t.co/S3VgMvI David Starkey. Put bluntly, I think it's a load pf utter bollocks. I'm impressed he had the balls to say it but it's still a load of steaming donkey crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #368 August 13, 2011 Quote a load of steaming donkey crap. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #369 August 13, 2011 QuotePut bluntly, I think it's a load pf utter bollocks. I'm impressed he had the balls to say it but it's still a load of steaming donkey crap. There was an idea in there about the chav 'patois'. That London yoof dialect that's bordering on pidgin english and surely functions to isolate them from the rest of society. That could have made for an interesting discussion. Unfortunately he expressed himself extremely badly and dressed his argument up in totally unneccesary racial terms which guarantee that no one except Daily Mail readers will even listen to it and they'll totally miss the point anyway.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #370 August 13, 2011 I agree. I think because there is no actual dominant culture kids look to the street culture which they make up from the worst aspects of American gang culture and what was once the exclusive domain of Jamacan patois has now been hijacked not only by working class kids of all ethnicity but in many cases middle class kids too. It would be good to see a distinctly modern English culture rise to dominance in this country. One which is inclusive of all but distinctive to which people can relate with, Black, White, Asian everyone who is English. I'd say British but the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish have strong cultural identities already.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #371 August 13, 2011 QuoteThere was an idea in there about the chav 'patois'. That London yoof dialect that's bordering on pidgin english and surely functions to isolate them from the rest of society. That could have made for an interesting discussion. His implication seemed to be that patois is directly linked to criminality, as though if you spoke a certain way you were automatically going to stray a little too often to the wrong side of the law. Which is untrue. The way you speak is merely indicative of the company you keep. Crime is a personal choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #372 August 13, 2011 QuoteIt would be good to see a distinctly modern English culture rise to dominance in this country. One which is inclusive of all but distinctive to which people can relate with, Black, White, Asian everyone who is English. Well the first issue I see with that idea is that not everyone who immigrates to England see themselves as English. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that many would identify more with their original nationality and up bringing than with English culture. Second or third generation immigrants may not even see themselves as English, though many consider themselves British. What would you like to see the distinctly English culture you talk about consist of? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #373 August 13, 2011 Good for the parents.... link: QuoteA TEENAGE girl accused of wrecking a police car in the riots is a London Olympics ambassador. Chelsea Ives, 18, was arrested after her parents allegedly saw her on TV during the mayhem in Enfield and called police. Mum Adrienne, 43, said: "I have no regrets. I love my daughter but she was brought up to know right from wrong." Chelsea is said to have hurled a rock through a shop window while rioting - then yelled excitedly to a friend: "This is the best day ever." She was behind bars last night after parents Adrienne and Roger turned her in when they allegedly saw her on TV attacking a police car. Adrienne said: "We've no regrets and would do the same again. "My children have always been taught right from wrong. We were not being brave, it's what any right-thinking person would have done."Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #374 August 15, 2011 Quotein a speech at his old school in Camden, Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, will denounce Cameron's ideas to deal with rioters, put forward over the weekend, as "gimmicks". Miliband will also link the behaviour of the looters and bankers, phone hacking and MPs' expenses scandals, saying: "It's not the first time we've seen this kind of me-first, take-what-you-can attitude. The bankers who took millions while destroying people's savings: greedy, selfish, immoral. The MPs who fiddled their expenses: greedy, selfish, immoral. The people who hacked phones to get stories and make money for themselves: greedy, selfish and immoral. Let's talk about what this does to our culture." http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/15/cameron-miliband-riots-unity-crumblesstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #375 August 15, 2011 Quote It's not the first time we've seen this kind of me-first, take-what-you-can attitude. Hes right about that, we've seen it for many years now, long before the MPs expenses scandal and the bankers financial crash. Without doubt they set a terrible example and those MPs who stole from us should be in jail; but they are not the cause of the riots.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
