winsor 187
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Again, *whoosh*
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteScience doesn't disprove God, but there is simply no reason for God to exist in the physical world. .....the idea he's required to create the universe is not supported by science.
Rats! I thought you had it there for a second but you reverted back to the idea of interjecting science into a religious argument.
But, you are right in the big picture. Science doesn't support the idea that's He's required to create the universe....because it can't. It can neither support it nor can it deny it.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
billvon 2,412
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Yes, some have done just that and as we know, that just doesn't work. So, do you
>bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That
>answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science.
Provided they can separate the two, yes.
>And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that
>exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or
>disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone
>reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of
>his argument?
Also agreed. Science can indeed disprove many claims made by religions - woman created from man's rib, the Deluge, the inferiority of some races etc etc. But that doesn't work to disprove the more intangible aspects of religion (i.e. a personal relationship with God, a belief in a certain morality.)
>bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That
>answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science.
Provided they can separate the two, yes.
>And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that
>exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or
>disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone
>reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of
>his argument?
Also agreed. Science can indeed disprove many claims made by religions - woman created from man's rib, the Deluge, the inferiority of some races etc etc. But that doesn't work to disprove the more intangible aspects of religion (i.e. a personal relationship with God, a belief in a certain morality.)
QuoteAlso agreed. Science can indeed disprove many claims made by religions - woman created from man's rib, the Deluge, the inferiority of some races etc etc. But that doesn't work to disprove the more intangible aspects of religion (i.e. a personal relationship with God, a belief in a certain morality.)
Exactly!
WooooHoooo!
...and it doesn't prove, nor does it disprove, the very basis of most religions...the existence of a (or the) spiritual deity.
Now, if you want to use science to prove the existence of peyote, you'd have no problem.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
maadmax 0
Indeed, it's the non-believers who try to put that burden on them when, indeed, it's not necessary, not required nor even relevant.
---------------------
Religious have no need to prove their beliefs with logic, and if it's purely personal and nothing more. Then they should refrain from arguing with Atheists who suggest God doesn't exist, it takes two to have a debate.
------------------------------------------------------------
Simple as that isn't it.
What we're seeing here is vitriolic people failing to understand that. What we are seeing here is egoism at it's worst - "My belief is better than your belief. I'm right, you're wrong!" And it's most vitriolic from the non-believers. It's almost like they can't sleep at night until they sway someone to their way of thinking.
-------------------------------------------------------
But then they shouldn't come into threads about the existence of God and try debate when all they have in their arsenal is "I believe it to be so, I have faith".
------------------------------------------------------------t non-believers wouldn't have anyone to bash!
Seriously though, I'm with you on that sorta. There is no debate going on here. It's simply argument. It's rarely a good idea to argue with anyone about anything.
-------------------------------------------------------
Except you've had a whole bunch of people try to make their God's existence seem more realistic by trying to cater to the scientific minded, albeit with flawed and incorrect knowledge of science.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm....yes and no, as I read the posts.
Yes, some have done just that and as we know, that just doesn't work. So, do you bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science.
And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of his argument? Unbelievable....no puns intended.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, pure unadulterated bullshit.
Damn good post Andy.
...
---------------------
Religious have no need to prove their beliefs with logic, and if it's purely personal and nothing more. Then they should refrain from arguing with Atheists who suggest God doesn't exist, it takes two to have a debate.
------------------------------------------------------------
Simple as that isn't it.
What we're seeing here is vitriolic people failing to understand that. What we are seeing here is egoism at it's worst - "My belief is better than your belief. I'm right, you're wrong!" And it's most vitriolic from the non-believers. It's almost like they can't sleep at night until they sway someone to their way of thinking.
-------------------------------------------------------
But then they shouldn't come into threads about the existence of God and try debate when all they have in their arsenal is "I believe it to be so, I have faith".
------------------------------------------------------------t non-believers wouldn't have anyone to bash!
Seriously though, I'm with you on that sorta. There is no debate going on here. It's simply argument. It's rarely a good idea to argue with anyone about anything.
-------------------------------------------------------
Except you've had a whole bunch of people try to make their God's existence seem more realistic by trying to cater to the scientific minded, albeit with flawed and incorrect knowledge of science.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm....yes and no, as I read the posts.
Yes, some have done just that and as we know, that just doesn't work. So, do you bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science.
And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of his argument? Unbelievable....no puns intended.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn good post Andy.
...
RonD1120 58
QuoteIndeed, it's the non-believers who try to put that burden on them when, indeed, it's not necessary, not required nor even relevant.
---------------------
Religious have no need to prove their beliefs with logic, and if it's purely personal and nothing more. Then they should refrain from arguing with Atheists who suggest God doesn't exist, it takes two to have a debate.
------------------------------------------------------------
Simple as that isn't it.
What we're seeing here is vitriolic people failing to understand that. What we are seeing here is egoism at it's worst - "My belief is better than your belief. I'm right, you're wrong!" And it's most vitriolic from the non-believers. It's almost like they can't sleep at night until they sway someone to their way of thinking.
-------------------------------------------------------
But then they shouldn't come into threads about the existence of God and try debate when all they have in their arsenal is "I believe it to be so, I have faith".
------------------------------------------------------------t non-believers wouldn't have anyone to bash!
Seriously though, I'm with you on that sorta. There is no debate going on here. It's simply argument. It's rarely a good idea to argue with anyone about anything.
-------------------------------------------------------
Except you've had a whole bunch of people try to make their God's existence seem more realistic by trying to cater to the scientific minded, albeit with flawed and incorrect knowledge of science.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm....yes and no, as I read the posts.
Yes, some have done just that and as we know, that just doesn't work. So, do you bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science.
And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of his argument? Unbelievable....no puns intended.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Again, pure unadulterated bullshit.
Damn good post Andy.
...
Amen!
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
kallend 1,635
Quote
And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of his argument? Unbelievable....no puns intended.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Again, pure unadulterated bullshit.
Damn good post Andy.
...
Amen!
The only people in this thread asking for science to disprove the existence of god have been believers.
(It remains a mystery which particular god they refer to, given a cast of thousands of candidates).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
RonD1120 58
Quote
Amen!
The only people in this thread asking for science to disprove the existence of god have been believers.
(It remains a mystery which particular god they refer to, given a cast of thousands of candidates).
The only proof that I am aware of is the born again experience. And, that can only be manifested through surrender of the ego to Christ by an act of personal will.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
tkhayes 134
Cough - Bullshit- Cough
sorry I could not resist.
Great that you have had such an amazing personal experience. Keep it personal please, 'cause many of us, perhaps even most of us, aren't buying it.
My amazing personal experiences have come from a good upbringing and support by my parents, a decent education, hard work, and some goals - a little bit of luck here and there, but mostly through my own insight, my own drive, my own goals, and my own ACTIONS to achieve those goals.
sorry I could not resist.
Great that you have had such an amazing personal experience. Keep it personal please, 'cause many of us, perhaps even most of us, aren't buying it.
My amazing personal experiences have come from a good upbringing and support by my parents, a decent education, hard work, and some goals - a little bit of luck here and there, but mostly through my own insight, my own drive, my own goals, and my own ACTIONS to achieve those goals.
RonD1120 58
QuoteCough - Bullshit- Cough
sorry I could not resist.
Great that you have had such an amazing personal experience. Keep it personal please, 'cause many of us, perhaps even most of us, aren't buying it.
My amazing personal experiences have come from a good upbringing and support by my parents, a decent education, hard work, and some goals - a little bit of luck here and there, but mostly through my own insight, my own drive, my own goals, and my own ACTIONS to achieve those goals.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteThe only people in this thread asking for science to disprove the existence of god have been believers.
They assume that because "God" is not included in the equation, it is proof that science is determine to prove that "God" does not exist.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
winsor 187
QuoteQuote
Amen!
The only people in this thread asking for science to disprove the existence of god have been believers.
(It remains a mystery which particular god they refer to, given a cast of thousands of candidates).
The only proof that I am aware of is the born again experience. And, that can only be manifested through surrender of the ego to Christ by an act of personal will.
About as convincing as someone who ate a handful of Sunshine and came to all kinds of pithy realizations.
RonD1120 58
Quote
The only proof that I am aware of is the born again experience. And, that can only be manifested through surrender of the ego to Christ by an act of personal will.
About as convincing as someone who ate a handful of Sunshine and came to all kinds of pithy realizations.
The difference is Orange Sunshine wears off. My trip has been going and growing for 30 years.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteThe only people in this thread asking for science to disprove the existence of god have been believers.
Well, I'll be damned. I didn't know that! Who would have thought the plaintiff would shoot down his own case.
*insert rolling eyes icon here*
Quote(It remains a mystery which particular god they refer to, given a cast of thousands of candidates).
Probably the one they believe in? I'm just guessing here.
*insert another rolling eyes icon here*
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteMy amazing personal experiences have come from a good upbringing and support by my parents, a decent education, hard work, and some goals - a little bit of luck here and there, but mostly through my own insight, my own drive, my own goals, and my own ACTIONS to achieve those goals.
You forgot mention a severe case of "I'm-right-You're-wrong -itis"
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
winsor 187
QuoteQuote
The only proof that I am aware of is the born again experience. And, that can only be manifested through surrender of the ego to Christ by an act of personal will.
About as convincing as someone who ate a handful of Sunshine and came to all kinds of pithy realizations.
The difference is Orange Sunshine wears off. My trip has been going and growing for 30 years.
I know people who did one too many hit and the change did not wear off.
I probably would not mind as much if people made their invisible friends a big secret. Like someone's sexuality, I really don't want to hear about it.
Similar to sexuality, I draw the line when people group together as a political entity. Whether it's the Prots vs. the Cat'lics, Sunnis vs. Shiites, LGBT vs. NAMBLA or whatever, once you stand up and state "we are a distinct entity and insist upon being treated as such!" you really can't bitch if people choose to do just that. Be careful what you ask for and so forth.
Research with which I am familiar goes into detail regarding why eyewitness accounts are so often massively inaccurate, and "belief" is a red flag.
I have been convinced of things where it turned out that I was mistaken, and I give you the same credit.
If you want to believe, fine. If you wish to inflict your beliefs on me, not so good. I have had all too many well-intentioned people seek to do so, and I have a zero-tolerance policy for such behavior.
BSBD,
Winsor
Again, pure unadulterated bullshit.
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