Fixing the budget problem

[billvon 2,435]

So everyone seems to agree that we have to do something about the deficit, but no one ever actually agrees on what to do. So here's a proposal:

Democrats want to increase taxes, republicans want to cut spending. So we do both. Our estimated 2011 deficit is 1.6 trillion. We make up half of that with spending cuts, half with increase in taxes.

On the spending side, even the GOP squawks when cuts to Social Security, Medicare, veteran's benefits etc are proposed. So we cut discretionary spending to reduce it by $800 billion. Of the $1.3 trillion discretionary part of our budget, that's approximately a 60% cut. So, for example, military spending drops from $815 billion to $326 billion. That means pulling all our troops out of everywhere they are and abandoning all our wars and foreign bases. It means laying off roughly half the military and ending roughly 2/3 of the current military development contracts. We effectively stop new weapons development and maintain/improve what we have.

Similar cuts are made in Health and Human Services, education, housing and urban development, justice etc. Federal courts are closed, the CDC shuts down etc.

On the revenue side, our business and income taxes make up about a trillion of our income. So we raise them by 80% by an across the board tax rate increase. So the current top rate (35%) goes to 63%. If you make $40,000 a year, your tax bracket goes from 25% to 45%. Everybody gets impacted, unless you make less than $8500 a year.

Companies see a similar increase; an increase in tax rates of 80%.

Would that sort of compromise be acceptable to both sides?

[kallend 1,649]

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So, for example, military spending drops from $815 billion to $326 billion. ?

And we'd STILL be spending more than 3 times as much as China, the next highest military spender.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

Agreed.
Stop sticking our dicks in other countries' issues and that alone would reduce how many billion?

Compromise on the rest from each side.

Now how/why/when/ever/and wtf??? can we get our government to do that???

[airdvr 200]

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On the revenue side, our business and income taxes make up about a trillion of our income. So we raise them by 80% by an across the board tax rate increase. So the current top rate (35%) goes to 63%. If you make $40,000 a year, your tax bracket goes from 25% to 45%. Everybody gets impacted, unless you make less than $8500 a year

And watch an economy that's been circling the drain head south.

When nearly 50% of citizens don't pay any taxes how will this impact everybody?

Sorry Bill. I want to see congress get off the credit card and make major spending cuts before I see taxes raised. Of course, it's never mattered much what I want when it comes to these things.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,435]

>When nearly 50% of citizens don't pay any taxes how will this impact everybody?

OK. We make a minimum 10% tax for everyone, no matter what their income. That way you can make the "poor" be part of it too.

Anyone else you want to raise taxes on, or is that enough?

>Sorry Bill. I want to see congress get off the credit card

Right. And I just proposed cutting our discretionary spending by over 50%.

Are you suggesting that ALL the savings comes from spending cuts? Then we cut the military to zero; no military whatsoever. Cut every other discretionary fund. Cut veteran's benefits by 30%, cut medicare, medicaid etc by 30% and that would get us there.

Would you support that?

[NewGuy2005 51]

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Agreed.
Stop sticking our dicks in other countries' issues and that alone would reduce how many TRILLION?

Compromise on the rest from each side.

Now how/why/when/ever/and wtf??? can we get our government to do that???

Fixed it for you.

[kallend 1,649]

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On the revenue side, our business and income taxes make up about a trillion of our income. So we raise them by 80% by an across the board tax rate increase. So the current top rate (35%) goes to 63%. If you make $40,000 a year, your tax bracket goes from 25% to 45%. Everybody gets impacted, unless you make less than $8500 a year

And watch an economy that's been circling the drain head south.

When nearly 50% of citizens don't pay any taxes how will this impact everybody?

.

Since the bottom 50% own about 9% of the nation's wealth, there is not a whole lot of potential in taxing them anyway.

In 2009, America's richest 400 people owned $1.27 Trillion — more than the holdings of the bottom 50 percent of Americans, less than $1.22 trillion.


PS I think you forgot about sales taxes, gas taxes, utility taxes, property taxes, etc.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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On the revenue side, our business and income taxes make up about a trillion of our income. So we raise them by 80% by an across the board tax rate increase. So the current top rate (35%) goes to 63%. If you make $40,000 a year, your tax bracket goes from 25% to 45%. Everybody gets impacted, unless you make less than $8500 a year

And watch an economy that's been circling the drain head south.

When nearly 50% of citizens don't pay any taxes how will this impact everybody?

.

Since the bottom 50% own about 9% of the nation's wealth, there is not a whole lot of potential in taxing them anyway.

Didn't King John do something like this???

Perhaps its time for a new Magna Carta that actually means something??

[mnealtx 0]

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>When nearly 50% of citizens don't pay any taxes how will this impact everybody?

OK. We make a minimum 10% tax for everyone, no matter what their income. That way you can make the "poor" be part of it too.

Anyone else you want to raise taxes on, or is that enough?

>Sorry Bill. I want to see congress get off the credit card

Right. And I just proposed cutting our discretionary spending by over 50%.

Are you suggesting that ALL the savings comes from spending cuts? Then we cut the military to zero; no military whatsoever. Cut every other discretionary fund. Cut veteran's benefits by 30%, cut medicare, medicaid etc by 30% and that would get us there.

Would you support that?

It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget - makes a nice boogeyman for your argument, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,435]

>It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was
>responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget . . .

Agreed. I am proposing a solution to that problem.

I realize that you see this problem as a political boon that allows you to get your attacks in on "the other side," but I was encouraged to see that at least some people here were more interested in solving the problem than in pushing their agenda.

[mnealtx 0]

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>It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was
>responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget . . .

Agreed. I am proposing a solution to that problem.

I realize that you see this problem as a political boon that allows you to get your attacks in on "the other side,"

I must have missed where I attacked anyone - can you point that out for me?

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but I was encouraged to see that at least some people here were more interested in solving the problem than in pushing their agenda.

Pushing thier agenda....that would be like your 'this is why the problem will never get fixed' reply when someone wants to make the cuts first, yes?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,649]

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>It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was
>responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget . . .

Agreed. I am proposing a solution to that problem.

I realize that you see this problem as a political boon that allows you to get your attacks in on "the other side,"

I must have missed where I attacked anyone - can you point that out for me?

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but I was encouraged to see that at least some people here were more interested in solving the problem than in pushing their agenda.

Pushing thier agenda....that would be like your 'this is why the problem will never get fixed' reply when someone wants to make the cuts first, yes?

Shifting taxes from the richest 5% to the poorest 50% won't work either - the poorest 50% simply don't have enough money to make a difference.

We could cut $HALF A TRILLION/year from the military budget and STILL be by far the world's largest military spender.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[beowulf 1]

What ever the politicians come up with I am sure it will happen at the last possible second.

[marks2065 0]

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>It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was
>responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget . . .

Agreed. I am proposing a solution to that problem.

I realize that you see this problem as a political boon that allows you to get your attacks in on "the other side,"

I must have missed where I attacked anyone - can you point that out for me?

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but I was encouraged to see that at least some people here were more interested in solving the problem than in pushing their agenda.

Pushing thier agenda....that would be like your 'this is why the problem will never get fixed' reply when someone wants to make the cuts first, yes?

Shifting taxes from the richest 5% to the poorest 50% won't work either - the poorest 50% simply don't have enough money to make a difference.

We could cut $HALF A TRILLION/year from the military budget and STILL be by far the world's largest military spender.

I don't understand why we can't just cut 20% across the board now and then in 6 months adjust further down in other areas. eliminate all departments that are duplicated, like the dep of eduacation. why have one in each state and one at the fed level. eliminate the fed level dep or the on the state level, you don't need both.

[Amazon 7]

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>It wasn't the military budget, vets benefits, medicare or medicaid that was
>responsible for the 1T increase over the 2007 budget . . .

Agreed. I am proposing a solution to that problem.

I realize that you see this problem as a political boon that allows you to get your attacks in on "the other side,"

I must have missed where I attacked anyone - can you point that out for me?

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but I was encouraged to see that at least some people here were more interested in solving the problem than in pushing their agenda.

Pushing thier agenda....that would be like your 'this is why the problem will never get fixed' reply when someone wants to make the cuts first, yes?

Shifting taxes from the richest 5% to the poorest 50% won't work either - the poorest 50% simply don't have enough money to make a difference.

We could cut $HALF A TRILLION/year from the military budget and STILL be by far the world's largest military spender.

I don't understand why we can't just cut 20% across the board now and then in 6 months adjust further down in other areas. eliminate all departments that are duplicated, like the dep of eduacation. why have one in each state and one at the fed level. eliminate the fed level dep or the on the state level, you don't need both.

They certainly have failed some people!!!

[Bolas 5]

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Since the bottom 50% own about 9% of the nation's wealth, there is not a whole lot of potential in taxing them anyway.

Two reasons:
* Everyone contributes to the solution.
* Every little bit helps.


Though to avoid overhead, those that are currently getting support checks of some sort from the gov't simply take it out before giving the money to them.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,435]

>I don't understand why we can't just cut 20% across the board now

We could - and we could raise taxes 20%. That doesn't solve the problem.

>and then in 6 months adjust further down in other areas.

We could also do that. That ALSO doesn't solve the problem. We have to raise taxes AND cut spending drastically; it really will take both. You would have to eliminate the military completely to make sufficient cuts in discretionary spending to even come close.

[marks2065 0]

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>I don't understand why we can't just cut 20% across the board now

We could - and we could raise taxes 20%. That doesn't solve the problem.

>and then in 6 months adjust further down in other areas.

We could also do that. That ALSO doesn't solve the problem. We have to raise taxes AND cut spending drastically; it really will take both. You would have to eliminate the military completely to make sufficient cuts in discretionary spending to even come close.

we do not need to raise taxes! we need to cut spending to a level that matches revenue. adding taxes only feeds the big gov.
Someone said (I do not know who) slavery is spending more time working for the master than for yourself. When anyone is paying more than half of their income in the form of taxes they have become the slave to the gov. nobody should pay more than half of their income in total taxes and nobody should pay nothing. Government should not be able to spend more than the previous years revenue and the credit card should be cut up and thrown away. when this happens the fed gov will start being responsible and the American people will start to do jobs they don't like to feed themselves. If they don't want to work they can go hungry. The jobs are out there for people, just because they don't pay what they want or it is labor they don't like owell, work or starve. Also anyone that takes money from the government in the form of welfare should have a time limitation on receiving those checks and have to pay a percentage of that money back to help fund others in need. To many people are collection gov funds for no reason but a lack of pride and being lazy.

[billvon 2,435]

>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

[Bolas 5]

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>I don't understand why we can't just cut 20% across the board now

We could - and we could raise taxes 20%. That doesn't solve the problem.

>and then in 6 months adjust further down in other areas.

We could also do that. That ALSO doesn't solve the problem. We have to raise taxes AND cut spending drastically; it really will take both. You would have to eliminate the military completely to make sufficient cuts in discretionary spending to even come close.

The problem with your approach is it's way too drastic so is just too much of a shock that it will just be ignored as "the problem is just too big."

You don't just take a heroin junkie off smack, drastically change their diet, give them a full makeover and an important high stress job all at once and expect everything to work.

We're credit junkies, it's gonna take more of a rehab approach.

Step 1. Get all politicians and voters to agree that there is a problem and all will need to make sacrifices to address.
Step 2. Start trimming the fat from the budget AND the tax code.
Step 3. Start cutting all programs x% as well as increasing taxes on all y%.
Step 4. Going department by department, see which ones are redundant, which could be self sufficient, which could be privatized, and which could possibly be revenue generators. The military would definitely fall into this third category, those companies that are directly profiting from military presence in certain non US areas keeping things stable enough for them to do business should be paying for that.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rushmc 18]

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>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

Your assurtions here simply is not true

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,649]

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>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

Your assurtions here simply is not true

Your budget analysis is a good match for your spelling and grammar.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

Your assurtions here simply is not true

Your budget analysis is a good match for your spelling and grammar.

And you avoiding an honest exchange is a demonstration of arrogance

Nothing new here so you can move along

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,649]

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>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

Your assurtions here simply is not true

Your budget analysis is a good match for your spelling and grammar.

And you avoiding an honest exchange is a demonstration of arrogance

Nothing new here so you can move along

Why don't YOU give us YOUR analysis instead of just telling Bill that he is wrong? Numbers please.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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>we do not need to raise taxes!

OK then. Are you OK with eliminating the US military? Because that's the level of cuts you're talking about if you want to do it without tax increases.

I am all for reducing the budget of all fed agencies by 20% and eliminating all agencies that are duplicated. Cut all welfare programs to any households that have Illegals living in them, fining any business that hires illegals a sum equal to 1.5 times what they paid the illegals they hired, and fining all medical facilities double what the total medicare payments they collected for any medicare fraud. this would come close to fixing the issue and we could tweak it later. the interest alone on the debt could pay for many projects to build the infrastructure projects needed.