This is Going to Sound Pretentious, but...(Federal vs. County Jury Duty)

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

When I was called to federal jury duty I was seated in a large room with comfortable chairs and tables in-between every two chairs. The room was far from full and the potential jurors spread out in the room were all mostly well-dressed. During the selection process, I learned we had several doctors, professors and mostly college graduates among us. It was a neat experience, but I was thankful I was not selected since the two trials would require nine or more days of my time.

Recently, I was called to county jury duty and I felt like I had missed the memo on what I should have done or said to get out of it. Despite the clear directions for men to wear a coat and tie and women to wear a dress or pant suit, not a single man I saw had a coat, much less a tie and most of the women were in spandex, t-shirts and highly inappropriate clothing. People were loud, obnoxious, spoke poorly and lacked any kind of decorum. The chairs were stacked on top of one another and despite my best efforts, I was elbowed on each side and kicked once from behind.

Looking around, I felt so out of place and very uncomfortable. Where were the doctors and professors dressed nicely and the chairs spread out spaciously for each of us to maintain a personal space? I wanted to raise my hand and explain there was a terrible mistake; I was not supposed to be in this group.

Am I missing something? I selected the date to serve, as the first date I was summoned to did not work well for me, and my employer was pissed I "did not get out of it", but did not offer a suggestion as to what I should have said or done to do so.

All I know is federal was fine (except the potential length of service) and county scared the hell out of me. I wish someone would clue me in as to why there was such a vast difference in the type/s of people. How ironic I had to leave my defense weapons in the car. If I have been in any crowd I might need one, this was surely it.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[skybytch 259]

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I was not supposed to be in this group.

Why not? Others in that group are just like you - citizens of the United States, doing their patriotic duty by wasting a day of their lives doing jury duty. What makes you so special that you shouldn't have to be in the same room with them?

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How ironic I had to leave my defense weapons in the car. If I have been in any crowd I might need one, this was surely it.

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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What makes you so special that you shouldn't have to be in the same room with them?

I can follow directions and maintain professional courtesy.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[shah269 0]

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women were in spandex, t-shirts and highly inappropriate clothing

Who wants to hear more about this part?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[shropshire 0]

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women were in spandex, t-shirts and highly inappropriate clothing

Who wants to hear more about this part?

Doubt they had a BSc

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[skybytch 259]

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I can follow directions and maintain professional courtesy.

Good for you. I'll bet you have nice, professional appearing clothes in your closet, ready to be worn on occasions like this. You probably even have a choice of which shoes to wear. And I'll bet you were taught by someone - your parents, a teacher, a boss - how to "maintain professional courtesy." Or is that some innate sense that "good" people have and their "lessers" do not?

What makes you think that others have those same advantages? What makes those who don't have those advantages somehow less of a person than you are?

Instead of looking down upon them, how about being impressed that they didn't just blow off jury duty like so many other, much "better" people do (ie the doctors that you are bemoaning the absence of)? Some of the people you are bitching about had to take an unpaid day off of work to be there. And you're bitching because they don't own professional looking clothing.

Weak sauce.

[quade 3]

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Am I missing something?

Yes. It appears you're missing a real connection with the average person that lives in your county.

I'm not saying it's your fault, but sometimes people don't actually know where they live. This is especially true in certain areas of the country where there is a diverse mix in the population.

For instance, Beverly Hills and South Central are in the same county.

It's EASY to live in parts of Los Angeles county and pretend poverty, gangs, drugs and hookers isn't just a few miles away.

While I understand you may think the people weren't dressed appropriately, they may not have the wardrobe the county requested them wear just sitting in their closet.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[NWFlyer 2]

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Instead of looking down upon them, how about being impressed that they didn't just blow off jury duty like so many other, much "better" people do (ie the doctors that you are bemoaning the absence of)? Some of the people you are bitching about had to take an unpaid day off of work to be there. And you're bitching because they don't own professional looking clothing.

Weak sauce.

I've always found it interesting that the people most likely to feel like they're "too important" to take time off for jury duty are also the folks who are most likely to get paid time off for jury duty from their employer (not that Carrie was saying this, but it sounds like her boss was). I'm not wild about it, but I do think it's important to do. I appreciated what the judge said the last time I had to go in - something along the lines of "As citizens, we only ask you to do four things. Vote, obey the law, pay your taxes, and serve on juries." It brought home that really ... it's not that big a burden.

I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing. I've only had to go in twice when I lived in Seattle (one county, one city or maybe they were both county, can't remember). I recall a pretty broad mix of folks being there. I don't recall anyone dressed particularly inappropriately, though some were more casually dressed than others.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

You have prejudged my background (incorrectly) at least as well as you claim I have judged others.

I disagree it is advantageous to own a dress and elect to wear it--because you were clearly asked to do so in your summons--instead of spandex and a t-shirt.



Edit: Hi, SC; I have missed you.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[Andy9o8 0]

In the absence of knowing where you're located, the best I can tell you is that a county's jury duty pool is made up only of people who reside in that county, whereas a federal jury duty pool is made up of people from all throughout that particular Federal Court District; and federal court districts are usually made up of many counties in a given state. So it's quite possible (frankly, it's probable) that your home federal district's demographics are more diverse than the demographics of your home county.

Another factor is that different states, and even different counties within a state, may have different rules about how jurors are selected and scheduled, whether, how or why people can request excuses or extensions of service. By my experience, jurisdictions that make it easy for people to get excused or extended tend to have fewer working, white-collar professionals attend (and the converse is also true).

As to physical facilities, it's pretty simple: the United States Treasury has a lot more money in it than your county's treasury does, so most federal courthouses are pretty modern and nice inside, whereas a lot of county courthouses are 19th Century relics.

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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I've always found it interesting that the people most likely to feel like they're "too important" to take time off for jury duty are also the folks who are most likely to get paid time off for jury duty from their employer (not that Carrie was saying this, but it sounds like her boss was). I'm not wild about it, but I do think it's important to do. I appreciated what the judge said the last time I had to go in - something along the lines of "As citizens, we only ask you to do four things. Vote, obey the law, pay your taxes, and serve on juries." It brought home that really ... it's not that big a burden.

I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing. I've only had to go in twice when I lived in Seattle (one county, one city or maybe they were both county, can't remember). I recall a pretty broad mix of folks being there.

Great response, Krisanne.
In both my federal and county jury summons, dress code was in bold, along with other directions that no-one seemed to follow in the latter.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[Andy9o8 0]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing.

Most places that I've known have had sort of a minimal dress code: casual clothes are fine, within reason; but shorts, t-shirts or rubber flip-flops will get you sent home with orders to change and get back there pronto.

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults show up in court dressed like slobs unless they're told in advance to do otherwise.

[billvon 2,405]

>Where were the doctors and professors dressed nicely and the chairs spread
>out spaciously for each of us to maintain a personal space?

Probably right there. Last time I was on jury duty I saw the same array of everything from suits to spandex shorts. When we got to the courtroom, I heard professions from bank CEO to doctor to lawyer to cops and EMT's. Three Navy guys, one Marine. Not dressed like you'd expect, either

>mostly well-dressed.

I don't get the concern over what people were wearing.

[wmw999 2,126]

I've been to jury duty a couple of times recently; I don't remember a mention of dress code, but clean, intact clothes appeared to dominate.

We're fortunate enough to have a good jury assembly room for our county. But it's just something you do. Personally, I think it's chickenshit to try to get out of jury duty, especially where I am -- they make it so easy to reschedule, and you get a free bus pass so you don't even have to drive.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

Thank you for your response.
While, I am aware of the difference in "pools" from federal to county (When I served federal, I was so impressed by the two single moms that drove several hours to be there--and on time!), I guess I did not think about how large our county is and that I live in such a small part of it (that I LOVE).

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[micro 0]

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>Where were the doctors and professors dressed nicely and the chairs spread
>out spaciously for each of us to maintain a personal space?

Probably right there. Last time I was on jury duty I saw the same array of everything from suits to spandex shorts. When we got to the courtroom, I heard professions from bank CEO to doctor to lawyer to cops and EMT's. Three Navy guys, one Marine. Not dressed like you'd expect, either

>mostly well-dressed.

I don't get the concern over what people were wearing.

The OP clearly stated that the county had a dress code in place on the instructions and that people ignored it, dismissed it, etc. Either have it or don't. I think our justice system is important enough that we should have a dress code and a code of behavior in place for jurors and others who participate in the court process and if you don't comply, there should be repercussions. It is not costly to look presentable. Although I own some expensive clothing, I picked up a Brooks Brothers sport coat for about 10 bucks at a consignment shop. Looks fantastic.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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I've been to jury duty a couple of times recently; I don't remember a mention of dress code,

Wendy, I love you, but you guys are making me feel horrible. There_IS_mention on each summons I have received. I would post the summons, but I am worried something I skimmed over would give away info where I live so the best I will offer is:

"5. ATTIRE: Please dress appopriately. Casual clothes are not appropriate. A coat and tie for a man, a dress or pants suit for a woman, or military or other uniform are appropriate."

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[pyrotech 0]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing.

Most places that I've known have had sort of a minimal dress code: casual clothes are fine, within reason; but shorts, t-shirts or rubber flip-flops will get you sent home with orders to change and get back there pronto.

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults show up in court dressed like slobs unless they're told in advance to do otherwise.

I was summoned to jury duty once, and read the requested dress code. I showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, and was sent home, with a request to return. I told the lady that if I went home, I was just going back into work, because I didn't own nice clothes. They sent me home, and I didn't return. Didn't hear anything about it after that. My duty as a citizen is to appear for a jury duty summons. I do not see it as my duty to adhere to a dress code. I'm glad they seemed to see it the same way, being as I never heard another word from them.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing.

Most places that I've known have had sort of a minimal dress code: casual clothes are fine, within reason; but shorts, t-shirts or rubber flip-flops will get you sent home with orders to change and get back there pronto.

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults show up in court dressed like slobs unless they're told in advance to do otherwise.

I was summoned to jury duty once, and read the requested dress code. I showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, and was sent home, with a request to return. I told the lady that if I went home, I was just going back into work, because I didn't own nice clothes. They sent me home, and I didn't return. Didn't hear anything about it after that. My duty as a citizen is to appear for a jury duty summons. I do not see it as my duty to adhere to a dress code. I'm glad they seemed to see it the same way, being as I never heard another word from them.

I've seen judges come very close to locking jurors up for contempt for pulling exactly that stunt. A court must be treated with a modicum of respect. Plus, if you are picked for a jury, you ARE part of the court. You want to be sworn in, sit in a jury box and hold yourself out to the public as someone administering justice while dressed like you're wasting away in Margaritaville? You going to tell me you didn't have a single clean pair of pants and button-down shirt? Bullshit. And for your flagrant refusal to come back, you should have had a bench warrant issued for you, as far as I'm concerned.

Look up the term "contempt of court" in the encyclopedia. It might have your picture next to it.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing.

Most places that I've known have had sort of a minimal dress code: casual clothes are fine, within reason; but shorts, t-shirts or rubber flip-flops will get you sent home with orders to change and get back there pronto.

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults show up in court dressed like slobs unless they're told in advance to do otherwise.

Yeah, it's possible there was something on there that I skimmed over because I was most likely dressing as if I was going to the office (business casual) in case I was dismissed mid-day and able to make it to work. Not that I'd dress overly casually anyway.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[micro 0]

Flame me all you want, but I just don't get this desire to shirk jury duty. One day you just may need to be judged by a jury of your peers, and by God you sure as hell will want the best and brightest people on that jury. But some of the "best and brightest" are the very same who are the ones who see jury duty as some sort of judicial purgatory, metered out lottery style. It's really a shame and it's part of the reason, IMO, why our legal system is in such disarray.

The last time I served on jury duty, it was a sexual assault case, father charged against his teenage daughter. If he was not found guilty of that charge, he could be found guilty of a lesser simple assault charge or no charge at all.

The case against him for the sexual assault charge was VERY compelling to everyone in the jury. However, we could not come to that verdict simply because some people in the jury pool could not settle their conscience with the thought of this man being labelled for the rest of his life as a sex offender, even though THEY ADMITTED THEY THOUGHT he was guilty! WTF??? I couldn't believe it. One other gentleman and myself fought to change the minds of these people to no avail. We were accosted by people in the jury who said things to us like, "we just want to get out of here, we don't want to spend another day doing this nonsense."

In the end, he was found guilty of simple assault and justice was NOT served for the victim.

What the hell kind of system is that?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[wmw999 2,126]

When I said I didn't notice if it said anything about dress code, I meant exactly that -- it might well have said so. I would dress respectfully regardless.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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In the end, he was found guilty of simple assault and justice was NOT served for the victim. What the hell kind of system is that?

The same system as is used anywhere else in the world that uses juries of common citizens to administer justice. It is imperfect, and subject to the dynamics of the human personalities of everyone on a jury. But that's the way it's supposed to be, because any other system would be worse.

As far as I'm concerned, you duly performed a public service to me personally, and I sincerely thank you for your service.

[billvon 2,405]

>I think our justice system is important enough that we should have a dress
>code and a code of behavior in place for jurors and others who participate in
>the court process and if you don't comply, there should be repercussions.

We have a dress code that is "Business casual dress is recommended." People show up in basically whatever they wear every day. Seems to work.

Our justice system is indeed important. What people wear while they are there isn't.

>It is not costly to look presentable.

Nope. It's not costly to wear a wig either - and they think that's real important to the legal system in the UK. We don't. Our system still seems to work OK.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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will want the best and brightest people on that jury.

The whole point of the jury system is that you do not get the best and brightest on the jury, nor are you supposed to. The judge may be the best and brightest in his/her field. The lawyers may be the best and brightest in their fields.

But the whole point of the way the system is set up is that the jury is supposed to consist of 12 very ordinary people of very ordinary ability and intelligence.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014