Lindsey 0 #51 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #52 January 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz[/reply Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new can of worms for arguing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #53 January 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz Really? Have you tried testing to see if that "non baby" has DNA that is different than it's mother and father?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #54 January 22, 2011 >>A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. >Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new >can of worms for arguing. Not really. No one could look through a microscope at a fertilized ovum and claim that it's equivalent to a baby. It's a _potential_ life, certainly - but it's not a baby. Heck, more than half of the fertilized ovums in the world just get flushed out anyway (failure to implant) and we don't cry "genocide!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #55 January 22, 2011 >Have you tried testing to see if that "non baby" has DNA that is different >than it's mother and father? Cancer cells have DNA that is effectively identical to its "mother." That's a poor reason to ban tumor removal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #56 January 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new can of worms for arguing. ETA: formatting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #57 January 22, 2011 Quote>>A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. >Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new >can of worms for arguing. Not really. No one could look through a microscope at a fertilized ovum and claim that it's equivalent to a baby. It's a _potential_ life, certainly - but it's not a baby. Heck, more than half of the fertilized ovums in the world just get flushed out anyway (failure to implant) and we don't cry "genocide!" Some hardcore people might beg to differ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #58 January 22, 2011 >Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #59 January 22, 2011 Quote>Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. If you are really comparing babies to cancer - wow . . . Attempting a medical procedure to help life that fails is not murder, it is failure.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #60 January 22, 2011 >If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #61 January 22, 2011 Quote>If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Only if you refuse to use common sense.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #62 January 22, 2011 I like turtles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #63 January 22, 2011 Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #64 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #65 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #66 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! Boxes are good.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pulse 0 #67 January 23, 2011 Reminds me of a conversation I had about abortion years ago with another guy at our drop zone. HIM: "I used to be very, very pro-life." ME: "Used to be? What changed?" HIM: "I found out I wasn't shooting blanks.""Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #68 January 24, 2011 >>It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life >>based purely on DNA, eh? >Only if you refuse to use common sense. Exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #69 January 24, 2011 I'm pro-fetus/anti-abortion/pro-life...whatever, but it doesn't mean I'd adopt a philosophy silimar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkUeFWZzHuIYour secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #70 January 24, 2011 Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I've listened to quite a few in here I wish had been aborted. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #71 January 24, 2011 QuoteThis thread is in dire need of some misanthropy. Agreed! Unfortunately the rest of your post is a little wonky, so let me give it a shot. I'll give an example of something, aside from abortion, that also wouldn't bother me (even if I'm not thrilled about the idea.) Not because I feel it's a particularly persuasive analogy, but because I think it more clearly communicates just how far I take the concept of "a life" vs "a potential life." It's important to note that I don't subscribe to the concept of "souls" or "after-lifes" or "before-lifes" or anything of that supernature. Life is a continuous process and procreation is a cog in the machine that makes it thus. The individual (you, me, anybody) develops over time and is little more than a collection of your memories and other people's memories of you stored amidst a distributed array of gray matter (or, if you do something cool, maybe you get into the history books for a couple hundred years until the libraries are all burned in a war or something.) This is really what makes you a person, what gives you an identity, what makes you a "life", and where the idea of "rights" becomes meaningful. Okay, on to the example... You take a sperm and an egg. Doesn't matter where you got them. In fact, I don't want to know. All that matters is the woman and man in question aren't aware you have them. You fertilize the egg and you gestate the zygote into a fetus into a baby and grow the thing all the way into a 20 year old while keeping it the entire time under sedation in a sensory deprivation chamber on ivs, etc. Now, without stopping the sedation or opening the chamber, you take a gun, and you put it up against the chamber, and you blow its brains out. Other than thinking that it's a little strange for someone to go that far just to prove a point, I really wouldn't care. It never met anybody, it never learned anything, I didn't even assign it a hypothetical sex. It wasn't an individual, it wasn't a life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #72 January 24, 2011 Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,625 #73 January 24, 2011 Quote Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me. Why is that any different than busybodies lobbying for laws that prevent total strangers from having control over their own bodies?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #74 January 24, 2011 Thanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. But actually, posting a link to a .jpg of your desired PA typed out or a video is not going to slip by without being noted for what it is. And regarding my post being 'apples and oranges' from another user. Not at all, maybe if you want it to seem that way you can pretend it is. But it's a completely rational idea, what makes a fetus more valuable than an animal? When the animal has superior knowledge, pain sensory and is overall more like a grown human than a fetus is, how is it logical to find it immoral to abort yet okay to slaughter? And bringing plants into it isn't fooling anyone, my entire post was based on the idea of what is morally wrong based on intellect, development and the ability to feel pain- in other words the advancement of the brain in both. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #75 January 24, 2011 QuoteThanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. Meh, it'll just get lost in all the other attacks against the idea of religion. Besides, I don't care if you call my beliefs insanely idiotic. I don't care if you think my preaching is an incoherrant rambling...I'm simply not that insecure.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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turtlespeed 212 #53 January 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz Really? Have you tried testing to see if that "non baby" has DNA that is different than it's mother and father?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #54 January 22, 2011 >>A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. >Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new >can of worms for arguing. Not really. No one could look through a microscope at a fertilized ovum and claim that it's equivalent to a baby. It's a _potential_ life, certainly - but it's not a baby. Heck, more than half of the fertilized ovums in the world just get flushed out anyway (failure to implant) and we don't cry "genocide!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #55 January 22, 2011 >Have you tried testing to see if that "non baby" has DNA that is different >than it's mother and father? Cancer cells have DNA that is effectively identical to its "mother." That's a poor reason to ban tumor removal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #56 January 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Yep. I don't think it should have to be a last resort. It is simply a woman's decision. A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. linz Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new can of worms for arguing. ETA: formatting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #57 January 22, 2011 Quote>>A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. >Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new >can of worms for arguing. Not really. No one could look through a microscope at a fertilized ovum and claim that it's equivalent to a baby. It's a _potential_ life, certainly - but it's not a baby. Heck, more than half of the fertilized ovums in the world just get flushed out anyway (failure to implant) and we don't cry "genocide!" Some hardcore people might beg to differ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #58 January 22, 2011 >Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #59 January 22, 2011 Quote>Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. If you are really comparing babies to cancer - wow . . . Attempting a medical procedure to help life that fails is not murder, it is failure.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #60 January 22, 2011 >If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #61 January 22, 2011 Quote>If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Only if you refuse to use common sense.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #62 January 22, 2011 I like turtles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #63 January 22, 2011 Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyMarko 1 #64 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #65 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #66 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! Boxes are good.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pulse 0 #67 January 23, 2011 Reminds me of a conversation I had about abortion years ago with another guy at our drop zone. HIM: "I used to be very, very pro-life." ME: "Used to be? What changed?" HIM: "I found out I wasn't shooting blanks.""Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #68 January 24, 2011 >>It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life >>based purely on DNA, eh? >Only if you refuse to use common sense. Exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #69 January 24, 2011 I'm pro-fetus/anti-abortion/pro-life...whatever, but it doesn't mean I'd adopt a philosophy silimar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkUeFWZzHuIYour secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #70 January 24, 2011 Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I've listened to quite a few in here I wish had been aborted. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #71 January 24, 2011 QuoteThis thread is in dire need of some misanthropy. Agreed! Unfortunately the rest of your post is a little wonky, so let me give it a shot. I'll give an example of something, aside from abortion, that also wouldn't bother me (even if I'm not thrilled about the idea.) Not because I feel it's a particularly persuasive analogy, but because I think it more clearly communicates just how far I take the concept of "a life" vs "a potential life." It's important to note that I don't subscribe to the concept of "souls" or "after-lifes" or "before-lifes" or anything of that supernature. Life is a continuous process and procreation is a cog in the machine that makes it thus. The individual (you, me, anybody) develops over time and is little more than a collection of your memories and other people's memories of you stored amidst a distributed array of gray matter (or, if you do something cool, maybe you get into the history books for a couple hundred years until the libraries are all burned in a war or something.) This is really what makes you a person, what gives you an identity, what makes you a "life", and where the idea of "rights" becomes meaningful. Okay, on to the example... You take a sperm and an egg. Doesn't matter where you got them. In fact, I don't want to know. All that matters is the woman and man in question aren't aware you have them. You fertilize the egg and you gestate the zygote into a fetus into a baby and grow the thing all the way into a 20 year old while keeping it the entire time under sedation in a sensory deprivation chamber on ivs, etc. Now, without stopping the sedation or opening the chamber, you take a gun, and you put it up against the chamber, and you blow its brains out. Other than thinking that it's a little strange for someone to go that far just to prove a point, I really wouldn't care. It never met anybody, it never learned anything, I didn't even assign it a hypothetical sex. It wasn't an individual, it wasn't a life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #72 January 24, 2011 Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,625 #73 January 24, 2011 Quote Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me. Why is that any different than busybodies lobbying for laws that prevent total strangers from having control over their own bodies?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #74 January 24, 2011 Thanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. But actually, posting a link to a .jpg of your desired PA typed out or a video is not going to slip by without being noted for what it is. And regarding my post being 'apples and oranges' from another user. Not at all, maybe if you want it to seem that way you can pretend it is. But it's a completely rational idea, what makes a fetus more valuable than an animal? When the animal has superior knowledge, pain sensory and is overall more like a grown human than a fetus is, how is it logical to find it immoral to abort yet okay to slaughter? And bringing plants into it isn't fooling anyone, my entire post was based on the idea of what is morally wrong based on intellect, development and the ability to feel pain- in other words the advancement of the brain in both. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #75 January 24, 2011 QuoteThanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. Meh, it'll just get lost in all the other attacks against the idea of religion. Besides, I don't care if you call my beliefs insanely idiotic. I don't care if you think my preaching is an incoherrant rambling...I'm simply not that insecure.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
JohnnyMarko 1 #57 January 22, 2011 Quote>>A fertilized egg isn't a baby by any stretch of the word. >Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that opens up a whole new >can of worms for arguing. Not really. No one could look through a microscope at a fertilized ovum and claim that it's equivalent to a baby. It's a _potential_ life, certainly - but it's not a baby. Heck, more than half of the fertilized ovums in the world just get flushed out anyway (failure to implant) and we don't cry "genocide!" Some hardcore people might beg to differ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #58 January 22, 2011 >Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #59 January 22, 2011 Quote>Some hardcore people might beg to differ Of course; someone will always differ. But claiming that a failure to implant a fertilized ovum is the same as killing a baby won't get much traction from 99.99% of the people in the world. If you are really comparing babies to cancer - wow . . . Attempting a medical procedure to help life that fails is not murder, it is failure.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #60 January 22, 2011 >If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #61 January 22, 2011 Quote>If you are really comparing babies to cancer I'm not. It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life based purely on DNA, eh? Only if you refuse to use common sense.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #62 January 22, 2011 I like turtles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #63 January 22, 2011 Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #64 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #65 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #66 January 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote I like turtles That is good. Turtles are an interesting part of the worlds eco system. I'm actually a box turtle researcher i like researching boxes! Boxes are good.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pulse 0 #67 January 23, 2011 Reminds me of a conversation I had about abortion years ago with another guy at our drop zone. HIM: "I used to be very, very pro-life." ME: "Used to be? What changed?" HIM: "I found out I wasn't shooting blanks.""Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #68 January 24, 2011 >>It would be really, really stupid to decide on what's a human life >>based purely on DNA, eh? >Only if you refuse to use common sense. Exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #69 January 24, 2011 I'm pro-fetus/anti-abortion/pro-life...whatever, but it doesn't mean I'd adopt a philosophy silimar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkUeFWZzHuIYour secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #70 January 24, 2011 Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I've listened to quite a few in here I wish had been aborted. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #71 January 24, 2011 QuoteThis thread is in dire need of some misanthropy. Agreed! Unfortunately the rest of your post is a little wonky, so let me give it a shot. I'll give an example of something, aside from abortion, that also wouldn't bother me (even if I'm not thrilled about the idea.) Not because I feel it's a particularly persuasive analogy, but because I think it more clearly communicates just how far I take the concept of "a life" vs "a potential life." It's important to note that I don't subscribe to the concept of "souls" or "after-lifes" or "before-lifes" or anything of that supernature. Life is a continuous process and procreation is a cog in the machine that makes it thus. The individual (you, me, anybody) develops over time and is little more than a collection of your memories and other people's memories of you stored amidst a distributed array of gray matter (or, if you do something cool, maybe you get into the history books for a couple hundred years until the libraries are all burned in a war or something.) This is really what makes you a person, what gives you an identity, what makes you a "life", and where the idea of "rights" becomes meaningful. Okay, on to the example... You take a sperm and an egg. Doesn't matter where you got them. In fact, I don't want to know. All that matters is the woman and man in question aren't aware you have them. You fertilize the egg and you gestate the zygote into a fetus into a baby and grow the thing all the way into a 20 year old while keeping it the entire time under sedation in a sensory deprivation chamber on ivs, etc. Now, without stopping the sedation or opening the chamber, you take a gun, and you put it up against the chamber, and you blow its brains out. Other than thinking that it's a little strange for someone to go that far just to prove a point, I really wouldn't care. It never met anybody, it never learned anything, I didn't even assign it a hypothetical sex. It wasn't an individual, it wasn't a life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #72 January 24, 2011 Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #73 January 24, 2011 Quote Quote Abortion...eh WTF. I don't advocate it but that's my decision. I don't try and force my views on that on someone else. I hear many people say they are seriously against abortion yet are pro-choice, but they spend so much time advocating for the choice that is already legal rather than influencing the actual choice for life with which they so heartily agree. Seems a lil back asswards to me. Why is that any different than busybodies lobbying for laws that prevent total strangers from having control over their own bodies?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #74 January 24, 2011 Thanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. But actually, posting a link to a .jpg of your desired PA typed out or a video is not going to slip by without being noted for what it is. And regarding my post being 'apples and oranges' from another user. Not at all, maybe if you want it to seem that way you can pretend it is. But it's a completely rational idea, what makes a fetus more valuable than an animal? When the animal has superior knowledge, pain sensory and is overall more like a grown human than a fetus is, how is it logical to find it immoral to abort yet okay to slaughter? And bringing plants into it isn't fooling anyone, my entire post was based on the idea of what is morally wrong based on intellect, development and the ability to feel pain- in other words the advancement of the brain in both. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #75 January 24, 2011 QuoteThanks for the link Coreece, now I can post it each time you you make a post regarding your religious beliefs. Meh, it'll just get lost in all the other attacks against the idea of religion. Besides, I don't care if you call my beliefs insanely idiotic. I don't care if you think my preaching is an incoherrant rambling...I'm simply not that insecure.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
