Best and worst jobs

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>At first he refused to pay but changed his mind when i started to
>"un-repair" the weld job with a grinder and cutoff wheel.

Hmm. Let's hope he's not like you the next time you need him to repair you!

His argument was that he had spent years at University and as an intern while racking up a couple hundred thousand dollars in student loans in order to do his job.
My response was that it took me years of on the job learning and a couple million dollars in equipment to have the facilities needed to do MY job.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,400]

>His argument was that he had spent years at University and as an
>intern while racking up a couple hundred thousand dollars in student loans
>in order to do his job.

>My response was that it took me years of on the job learning and a couple
>million dollars in equipment to have the facilities needed to do MY job.

Yep. Of course, you'd probably be willing to pay a little more for a working spinal cord vs. a working car repair.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>Don't take this to personal, but could you tell us where you work? I
>want to be sure NOT to go there for surgical needs.

You will never have to; she is not a surgeon. You'll instead have the pleasure of going to a board-rated surgeon who will explain in detail what he will do - then will have a resident who hasn't slept in three days do most of the work on you.

So you are telling me that not only does that surgeon make a lot of money, he does very little for it and leaves the work to people who are in no condition to piss in a toilet let alone operate? Thankfully I am rarely in need of a doctor!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,400]

>So you are telling me that not only does that surgeon make a lot
>of money, he does very little for it and leaves the work to people who are
>in no condition to piss in a toilet let alone operate?

As in many endeavors, the person responsible makes the most money.

>Thankfully I am rarely in need of a doctor!

But when you are, you'll likely pay top dollar if those dollars buy you another few years, or the ability to walk.

[turtlespeed 212]

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I'm a family doctor, and I make more than most surgeons on the posted scale, and I approach the upper end, whether y'all think I deserve it or not. But of course I work WAAAAAY more hours than most of y'all would consider, and what I do in my time is pretty productive overall. If you don't work over 100 hours a week, though, your response is lost to me. I haven't worked UNDER that in the last 6 years...while also being a single mom. Whine if you want, but I've WORKED for what I earn. No food stamps in my household. :)

Don't take this to personal, but could you tell us where you work? I want to be sure NOT to go there for surgical needs. I have worked far to many 100+ hour work weeks to trust my life to somebody who is operating on me in that condition.

You missed her job description - and personaly, I have net the woman - and besides that one thing that happened you know where - i would TOTALLY trust her cutting on me.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>So you are telling me that not only does that surgeon make a lot
>of money, he does very little for it and leaves the work to people who are
>in no condition to piss in a toilet let alone operate?

As in many endeavors, the person responsible makes the most money.

>Thankfully I am rarely in need of a doctor!

But when you are, you'll likely pay top dollar if those dollars buy you another few years, or the ability to walk.

Sorry, Bill, but i see that as price gouging. "You dont want to pay me $10,000 for a 2 hour operation? Ok, then die."

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Yes, I did miss her job description.
And I have never met her.
As I mentioned, I have worked many weeks over 100 hours and know just how ineffective a person becomes from sleep deprivation. Motor skills and judgement deterriate, concentration wanders, etc.
Sorry and nothing personal, but no thank you.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Sorry, Bill, but i see that as price gouging. "You dont want to pay me $10,000 for a 2 hour operation? Ok, then die."

for people in our types of recreational interests, it's less about dying or not, and much more about "would you like to continue to engage in that hobby at full capacity."

It was a bit more than 2 hours work to do round II on my shoulder - fixing the rough edges, finding and fixing the rotator cuff, and reattaching the fraying bicep tendon. I would have lived without this ops, but not well. And of course it doesn't end with the operation - he calls the next day (Sat) to check up, and of course the monthly check-ins during the PT process. Those visits net him something like $85. The 10k spent to stay active - not gouging by my accounting.

[billvon 2,400]

>Sorry, Bill, but i see that as price gouging.

?? Should the government force doctors to give you surgery for real cheap? Will the government then pay their malpractice insurance and pay off their school loans as well?

The reason that we as skydivers can shatter ourselves and then expect to walk again is because people are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money (or get their insurance companies to pay exorbitant amounts of money) to do a great deal of work on them. And that's a good thing. I have a friend who racked up about $300K in medical bills. She had half a dozen surgeries to fix her pelvis, skull, spine, leg and jaw - and they did a very good job. It was worth the money, given that she would certainly have died without extensive medical care.

> "You dont want to pay me $10,000 for a 2 hour operation? Ok, then die."

Basically, yes. You are free to find a less competent/less expensive/less abrasive surgeon.

[SStewart 13]

What a bullshit list.

In the summer I get paid to jump out of airplanes and in the winter I get paid to ski.

I have the best jobs in the world and neither of my jobs are even on the list.

City folk.

Onward and Upward!

[ridestrong 1]

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I agree with pirana on this. General practitioners are far underpaid while most surgeons are paid far to much. My life was also once saved by a surgeon but when i saw his bill I almost died of a heart attack. I was rewarded a few months later when he needed some welding done. I charged him at exactly the hourly rate he charged me. At first he refused to pay but changed his mind when i started to "un-repair" the weld job with a grinder and cutoff wheel.

Performing surgery on human beings, that can die during said surgery or turn around and try to sue you for millions of dollars after even successful surgery, and then caring for those patients for months and years after surgery.....

vs.

welding pieces of metal together.

Yeah, I can see where you felt you deserved the same compensation.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Amazon 7]

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online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/st_BESTJOBS2010_20100105.html

Coool

I guess I am doing ok ... since I make more than the top ranking for my field.

Have I mentioned I love what I do

[LongWayToFall 0]

I love welding, and there are some very special jobs out there that you need a VERY skilled welder for, ie repair work for the space program, etc etc. But the time required to learn how to weld is on average only a tiny fraction of what it takes on average to become a surgeon.

Lets compare. You weld something that belongs to your doctor, which is valued at 10 million dollars. You charge 20 thousand an hour.
Your doctor performs surgery on you, who is valued at infinity, and charges you the same rate. You get the better deal compared to him.

If you really tried to charge your doctor the same price he charged you, then you were acting like a fucking asshole, and should move to a communist country. But then, anyone there who deserves a high salary probably moved already.

[Lindsey 0]

Good thing is that you'll *probably* never need me. If it were to happen, though, it's good that I can do MOST of what I do in my sleep...lol. But when things get real exciting, I get unsleepy fast!

Honestly, you get used to long hours, and Im only rarely exhausted c

Gotta go have surgery in a few hours. This plastics guy makes a helluva lot of money with WAAAAY fewer hours. I'll gladly pay for his expertise!

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I agree with pirana on this. General practitioners are far underpaid while most surgeons are paid far to much. My life was also once saved by a surgeon but when i saw his bill I almost died of a heart attack. I was rewarded a few months later when he needed some welding done. I charged him at exactly the hourly rate he charged me. At first he refused to pay but changed his mind when i started to "un-repair" the weld job with a grinder and cutoff wheel.

Performing surgery on human beings, that can die during said surgery or turn around and try to sue you for millions of dollars after even successful surgery, and then caring for those patients for months and years after surgery.....

vs.

welding pieces of metal together.

Yeah, I can see where you felt you deserved the same compensation.

Next time you are on the highway...or pass a gas pipeline...or enter a high-rise....or a sports stadium...remember that each is entirely dependent upon the quality of the welds to keep it standing.
But hey...it's only a weld, right? We can get some bum off the street to do it for minimum wage.

Sure doctors save lives. So do EMTs but they don't make the money a surgeon does.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jgoose71 0]

One of my friends that I have in this area is a doctor. He makes probably close to $200,000 a year. Now lets take a closer look-

$100,000 goes to medical malpractice right off the top. Then he has to pay for his 8 years of college.

I think in the grand scheme if things, I take home more money than he does. And he works close to 80 hours a week to boot.

Kind of makes me wonder why anyone would want to be a doctor.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[freethefly 6]

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it's only a weld, right? We can get some bum off the street to do it for minimum wage.

LOL... this coming from someone who put my past work down.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4019715;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

I've done far more than run a robotic welder in the trade. I started welding in the 70's. Was a Navy C1 welder. I have held a 6G certification to weld pipe (NASCO shipyard in San Diego, Markham Boiler in St. Louis, and Trinity Metals and Pipe) as well as holding a UX/EMF level 2 examiner certification. I've tested near every rail weld on railroads from the New York subway to rail as far as the Mexican/Guatemala border. I have also taught others how to test rail. I have even taught others how to weld. Built hundreds of the sign posts that are in front of Quiktrips as well as other place. Did over 500 miles of pipe for a dredging operation with 3 other guys. I think that I am well worth $20.00 per hour and even more. Unfortunately, the economy in this area does not support that wage like it did elsewhere. I'm willing to work for less, for now.

In the Plant, I started out building the trailers that house the refrigeration equipment used to cool the food cooler units inside the store. Building a trailer required MIG, TIG, and spot welding. Hand cuts were mostly down with a plasma cutter. When Ingersoll Rand moved the dept. to Georgia, I bid over to coil and tube to braze coil units. When they brought the Fanucs in, They were to replace about 60 welding jobs. Only ten bids were on the board. Over 100 people bid on the job. I was one of the ten who won place on a machine. I'll tell you that it was not a gravy job. Near 800 parts per shift as well as maintaining the machine to setting parameters. You are right that the basic operation is simple, but the job itself is not.

You have the audacity to put that down, but defend your outrageous claim that you were going to take a grinder to a weld if the doctor did not pay you the rate he charges for medical service! First off, bullshit, never happened. I would think that a doctor would be smart enough to sue you. Second, I highly doubt that your welds are worth what a doctor makes. Third, you can take a bum off of the street and teach him or her to pass a 6G in less than a month. Be honest, it is not that hard to learn how to weld or fabricate. What it is, is hard work.

I personally believe that welders earn every penny due to the nature (hazards) of the job.

The old joke was "Welders are like whores. Always screaming for more rod and bitching about the heat and money.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skyrider 0]

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What it is, is hard work.

I personally believe that welders earn every penny due to the nature (hazards) of the job.

Hard , hot , sweaty, smelly, and in factories, Boring as hell!

[freethefly 6]

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What it is, is hard work.

I personally believe that welders earn every penny due to the nature (hazards) of the job.

Hard , hot , sweaty, smelly, and in factories, Boring as hell!

You got that right.
Welding pipe along the Missouri river was the hardest. Not so bad during the summer, but winter was extremely cold. Had to preheat the weld path before welding. We had zero bad welds. Not one defect. Not sure if that was luck or skill.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[pirana 0]

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And damn well should be, Nurses should make much ore also!

More than once a skilled surgeon has not only svaed my life, but the quility of my life! As said before, they EARN evey penny they make! My guess is you think pro athletes are worth their outrageuos paychecks!

And you would be wrong, . . . again.

I have not patronized professional sports for one cent for at least 25 years. At least for the major spectator sports - they have integrated fleecing taxpayers as part of their business plans. Repugnant is what pro sports has become. All facilitated by the juvenille hero worship tendencies of a large segment of the public. (A large enough segment to preserve the status quo and pressure lawmakers into using public money to subsidize billuionaire owners).

Some people's lack of any ability to link amazes me. It's laughable to hear people complain about ticket prices, then bow to the millionaires that own the teams and play the games. But I digress.

So what if median income for surgeons was $500K? Would they still be worth every penny? Would a million be reasonable? Is there any line you would draw - or is your opinion that saving a life, or improving it, is worth whatever amount of money it takes?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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What if they work hours twice as long as the next highest? Most of the whiners on here couldn't BEGIN to work those hours, with the same stresses. Surgeons earn every penny they make. Be grateful you have them.

linz

They only have to work those kinds of hours because the AMA keeps a stranglehold on the supply of physicians. Some of what medical students are put thru includes what can only be categorized as hazing (the ridiculous hours). The only purpose of which is preparation for more ridiculous hours, caused by the intentional restriction in supply, which is used to justify the salary, . . .

It's a viscious and nasty cyle intentionally propogated by the AMA. Unless of course people think working 80 hour weeks is an inherently good thing.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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[I agree with pirana on this. General practitioners are far underpaid while most surgeons are paid far to much. My life was also once saved by a surgeon but when i saw his bill I almost died of a heart attack. I was rewarded a few months later when he needed some welding done. I charged him at exactly the hourly rate he charged me. At first he refused to pay but changed his mind when i started to "un-repair" the weld job with a grinder and cutoff wheel.

I had the same torn feelings when I had my neck repaired. Very grateful for the work done, but $44K for being in the system for about 20 hours - about 2 hours of which was the actual surgery. That is fucking ridiculous.

Of course I had people say "Would you rather not be repaired?" Of course not, but where and how is the line drawn? If they had charged $100K, or a quarter of a million - should i still be grateful and not question the price?

Not questioning the price (an emotional issue for consumers) and the intentional restriction on the supply side (a business practice of the AMA) are the foundations of the outrageous cost of care in the US.

BTW, the bill for the actual surgery was exactly half the total cost of my repair. ($22K for the 20 hour hospital and support, and $22K for the surgeon). So he made $10K per hour for his work. Unfuckingbelievable.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Your doctor performs surgery on you, who is valued at infinity, and charges you the same rate. You get the better deal compared to him.

If you really tried to charge your doctor the same price he charged you, then you were acting like a fucking asshole, and should move to a communist country. But then, anyone there who deserves a high salary probably moved already.

This attitude and the resultant God-like qualities it infers for physicians, and the idea that you cannot put a price on life & health (and therefore on the care given) is why the tactics being pursued will not fix the cost of care problem. Eliminate the insurance companies, eliminate the quack segments of caregivers, eliminate the politics, etc, . . . and you still have a level of cost that is unteneble. Why don't people get that? We simply can not provide everybody in the country with Cadillac health care (or anything even close) regardless of their ability to pay any more than we can provide everybody in the country with a Cadillac regardless of their ability to pay. That the current administration has embarked on that path at a time when the economy is in such duress is an indicator of either their stupidity or their willingness to put blind ideals ahead of common sense. That their "reforms" do nothing to address the supply of caregivers or the actual cost of care is a testament to the power of the AMA.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 58]

I see my former field is about midway on the scale. The most I ever made was $39K as a program manager. That position lasted 16 months.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[turtlespeed 212]

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One of my friends that I have in this area is a doctor. He makes probably close to $200,000 a year. Now lets take a closer look-

$100,000 goes to medical malpractice right off the top. Then he has to pay for his 8 years of college.

I think in the grand scheme if things, I take home more money than he does. And he works close to 80 hours a week to boot.

Kind of makes me wonder why anyone would want to be a doctor.

take 25 to 30% for taxes before the malpractice.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun